#12, Brockman, Leuer, SL for #14, Dalembert

[Baddy Chuck]

Monta can get to the basket and score. Jennings going to the basket is 99 times out of 100 a sh**ty floater-- a low percentage shot. Thus BJs shooting percentage. I sorta hate that Im defending Monta, because I don't like his game at all.

Monta shot 65% at the rim at 4.8 attempts and Jennings shot 58% at 4.7 attempts. Jennings was better everywhere else on the court shooting wise on similar attempts.

Monta may be better then Brandon at scoring in the paint which is usually the case when comparing a point guard to a shooting guard, but he's hardly shooting better percentages overall or getting into the lane and scoring much more.

[trwi7]

Monta can get to the basket and score. Jennings going to the basket is 99 times out of 100 a sh**ty floater-- a low percentage shot. Thus BJs shooting percentage. I sorta hate that Im defending Monta, because I don't like his game at all.

Hyperbole much? Jennings got the rim about 5 times per game last year and shot nearly 58%. He got there the same amount as Ellis this year though Ellis shot a higher percentage (63.5).

As far as creating shots. The last six years Ellis has been assisted on 40% of his shots. Jennings in his career has never been assisted more than 38.7% of the time and was below 33% his rookie year.

[adam10]

Little bit upset we lose JL to be honest, the kid showed awesome signs during the season but he was another 4 forced to play at the 5.

We gain SD who is a natural centre and will help BJ/Ellis? a lot. Also means we can hopefully chase Ross which seems to be what we are all hoping for.

[MilBucksBackOnTop06]

I'm sure Kohl hasn't forgotten Dalembert straight up owning Bogut for years. He probably thinks Sammy is a top 3 center.

Can't be Ilyasova, FA doesn't start until July 1.

Hmm. Ellis?

No not Ellis. They stole him.

They only gave up players who were not going to play anyhow for a proven C in his prime who can get even better. No one should have issues with this . . . at all.

They did not even give up a rotation player or a pick to get a starting Center and clear room off of their bench with guys they would have probaly released or cut anyways! Masterful!

All they gave up was Brockman, Leuer, and Livingston and moved back two spots. Magnificent. It really has nothing to do with "win now." You just made your team better, period.

This would have been a great deal if we had lost 50 games last year. This is a slam dunk. Now you can any pick you make tommorrow can help you. Especially if someone said we can resign or sign and trade Ersan.

Hell, if he wants to...keep him now. I cannot express how solid this deal is. You dont want to have to draft a rookie to fill this spot at this stage.

[Oscar71]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to call this one a decent move by Hammond. With Moute guarding a wing, and Udoh/Dalembert in the paint, there is now some D to back all the swag up front.... Take the best big guard left at 14 and keep building. The 6th. seed awaits...

The Wisconsin bias against Sullinger is probably due to him doing nothing against the Badgers whenever they played. You can say the same for Drummond vs. Marquette, IMHO

Let's hope for better tomorrows....

[-Jragon-]

Monta can get to the basket and score. Jennings going to the basket is 99 times out of 100 a sh**ty floater-- a low percentage shot. Thus BJs shooting percentage. I sorta hate that Im defending Monta, because I don't like his game at all.

Hyperbole much? Jennings got the rim about 5 times per game last year and shot nearly 58%. He got there the same amount as Ellis this year though Ellis shot a higher percentage (63.5).

As far as creating shots. The last six years Ellis has been assisted on 40% of his shots. Jennings in his career has never been assisted more than 38.7% of the time and was below 33% his rookie year.[/ ]


You guys are trying way to hard to defend Jennings. He's not that good and we've all watched the same games so we should all know that. Out of the playoff teams, Jennings could only have started for the Lakers and be a backup for the rest of the teams. Heck, he'd be the #3 or 4 PG on the Knicks! There are washed up vets that are better than him right now because they can do the minimum: run the pick and roll and shoot efficiently. What are we losing by trading Jennings? Nothing. Can we get value for him from someone? Will someone even offer him 9 mill +? I doubt it, but we'll see what happens I guess, but I hope Hammond isn't in love with him.

[adam10]

Dalembert, Udoh, Moute, Ellis, Jennings

It's not a bad balanced 5. Still have the Ilaysova deal to sort out and still have Ellis to chuck around, we just have to pray we draft a wing tomorrow though.

Though, we need a shooter and bad.

[Baddy Chuck]

He's not that good and we've all watched the same games so we should all know that.

We all watched the same games of Monta also to know that he's not very good either.

[-Jragon-]

And then you let Monta chuck your team into the lottery, what's the difference?

Difference is: Monta can pass, be clutch, and draw fouls. Jennings can do none of the above, but his best asset is long range shooting (like 120th in the league.. oooooo), no thanks.

Jennings is at least the equal in terms of passing ability of Monta, and he can dribble 4 times in a row without turning it over.

Plus, if you think Jennings is me-first has Monta got a surprise for you....

Can't buy it: Monta's passes were way slicker than Jennings. He average more assists than Jennings as a SG! PG's always have the ball and there isn't an excuse for that.

[trwi7]

You guys are trying way to hard to defend Jennings. He's not that good and we've all watched the same games so we should all know that. Out of the playoff teams, Jennings could only have started for the Lakers and be a backup for the rest of the teams. Heck, he'd be the #3 or 4 PG on the Knicks! There are washed up vets that are better than him right now because they can do the minimum: run the pick and roll and shoot efficiently. What are we losing by trading Jennings? Nothing. Can we get value for him from someone? Will someone even offer him 9 mill +? I doubt it, but we'll see what happens I guess, but I hope Hammond isn't in love with him.

We're trying way too hard to defend Jennings by providing facts. You defend Monta by saying he is better just because he is. Yeah, I'm sure people will take you seriously with that.

[Siefer]

This trade isn't bad from a "win now" perspective. We gave up very little for a starting quality center.

The problem is trying to win now with this roster. Assuming we bring back Ersan, the ceiling of:

Jennings/Udrih
Ellis/Udrih/#1 Pick
LRMAM/Dunleavy/Harris
Ersan/Udoh/Gooden
Dalambert/Gooden/Sanders

...is still about 45 wins.

Yay.

[thomchatt3rton]

Monta shot 65% at the rim at 4.8 attempts and Jennings shot 58% at 4.7 attempts. Jennings was better everywhere else on the court shooting wise on similar attempts.

Monta may be better then Brandon at scoring in the paint which is usually the case when comparing a point guard to a shooting guard, but he's hardly shooting better percentages overall or getting into the lane and scoring much more.

Monta is shooting better %s overall. Monta's career FG% is 46%. BJs is 39%. Also, weren't you comparing ME as a PG vs BJ as a PG, or am I wrong?[/quote]

Hyperbole much? Jennings got the rim about 5 times per game last year and shot nearly 58%. He got there the same amount as Ellis this year though Ellis shot a higher percentage (63.5).

As far as creating shots. The last six years Ellis has been assisted on 40% of his shots. Jennings in his career has never been assisted more than 38.7% of the time and was below 33% his

I did hyperbole a bit yes you may be right But IMO, 58 vs 64% is a fairly sizeable difference. Imagine BJ shooting 45% instead of 39% career...
Also, the number of shots a dude has been assisted on vs how well he creates his own shots is NOT the same thing.

[trwi7]

Also, the number of shots a dude has been assisted on vs how well he creates his own shots is NOT the same thing.

So you think Monta's numbers would be the same if he had been assisted on the same percentage as Brandon? It may not be the end all be all but being assisted on shots does show that you don't have to dribble for 20 seconds and create something.

[adam10]

The improvement of one Tobias Harris could be very pivotal next season.

[Oscar71]

Seems like someone needs to start the "Chuck 1 vs. Chuck 2" thread....

[-Jragon-]

You guys are trying way to hard to defend Jennings. He's not that good and we've all watched the same games so we should all know that. Out of the playoff teams, Jennings could only have started for the Lakers and be a backup for the rest of the teams. Heck, he'd be the #3 or 4 PG on the Knicks! There are washed up vets that are better than him right now because they can do the minimum: run the pick and roll and shoot efficiently. What are we losing by trading Jennings? Nothing. Can we get value for him from someone? Will someone even offer him 9 mill +? I doubt it, but we'll see what happens I guess, but I hope Hammond isn't in love with him.

We're trying way too hard to defend Jennings by providing facts. You defend Monta by saying he is better just because he is. Yeah, I'm sure people will take you seriously with that.

There isn't really a stat that shows everything a point guard has to do like find open guys, pass to open teammates off of the pick and roll, create contact on layups in order to get to the line making good decisions in crunch time, and other such instances. I can plainly see that Jennings doesn't do those things well. The best "facts" I have are that his assists as a PG were less than Monta who is our SG (and isn't primarily responsible for getting assists), his low number of fouls drawn, and the lack of team wins in close games when he normally has the ball.

Monta has flaws that we all saw in his games with the Bucks, but almost all of those flaws are related directly to him playing the SG position and not his talent level. Lack of size, length, and outside shooting are things he can get around more as a PG. I'd like to see this happen.

[thomchatt3rton]

Also, the number of shots a dude has been assisted on vs how well he creates his own shots is NOT the same thing.

So you think Monta's numbers would be the same if he had been assisted on the same percentage as Brandon? It may not be the end all be all but being assisted on shots does show that you don't have to dribble for 20 seconds and create something.

Do you think the percentage a player has been assisted on represents how well they can create their own shot?

But to answer your hypothetical question, I'd guess yes, that Monta could score at least as well as BJ if he were assisted at the slightly less rate you mention. But that's me guessing at something hypothetically , and it is based on my eye test- Monta's ability to create space and square up true for a jumper, his ability to get to the backboard for a simple lay-up (resulting in his superior at the basket percentage).

Also, neither you nor BC can refute the 7% difference in FG% career between BJ and Monta.

But Im tired of defending Monta, who's game I don't like. All I was trying to do was refute BCs point, which I can't hardly remember.

[step3profit]

Neither one is a particularly great distributor, so if that's what you want from the point guard position, you chuck them both. If you want a scorer at the position, either will do, and jennings is currently cheaper, and guaranteed to be here a year longer.

[Baddy Chuck]

But Im tired of defending Monta, who's game I don't like. All I was trying to do was refute BCs point, which I can't hardly remember.

It was the "Monta scores more at the rim because Jennings can't do it at all" argument. Monta scored an average of 6.1 points at the rim per game this season to Jennings' 5.4 points. That 5-7% doesn't seem like too much now does it?

[MilBucksBackOnTop06]

Depending on who we draft is how this trade will be viewed. People act like Dalembert is a huge addition, but in all reality he is not that good anymore. People just see the name and think about the past. He is not the same as he used to be folks.

12.2 pts / 11.4 rbs / 2.8 bks per 36 minutes last year with a .551 TS% is a nice addition. He's still plenty good as a big man. Not some all-star caliber guy, but a guy who can guard any center in the league effectively and do the dirty work for you on the boards.

Those numbers are better then Bogut's best time here...Delembert is a beast. He had a great year. He is in his prime.

He is near All Star caliber in the right situation, with the right minutes, the right role, around the right players...in the East.

Delembert can be or play at an All Star level this year for this team because he can make an immediate impact for us.