Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza

[veji1]

My point was - trading for players who can shoot well and efficiently (and do other things reasonably well) would have fit the Wiz needs a LOT better than getting 2 relatively offensively-challenged players like Okafor and Ariza.

I get your point, and I think that for Lewis' dead corpse, the Wizards could only have had an overpayed defenseless chucker who would have been detrimental to the team balance. Sure a good 3 and D guy would have been great, alas thos guys get payed nowadays and no one would have traded one of them to us without giving us a horrible contract with it. The FO chose, with the weak hand it had, to reinforce the teams's strength, which was only tentative at this stage, and try to make it a real strength and identity.

[leswizards]

I'd rather just keep Nene than sign Granger or Deng.

What if they signed peopled to one year deals in 2014 to replace Okafor and Ariza, would they have the cap space available in 2015 to go after Durant? (Again this assumes Nene is traded for a contract that expires pre 2015). I think that would be an even better plan if they could actually get Durant.

[nate33]

I'd rather just keep Nene than sign Granger or Deng.

What if they signed peopled to one year deals in 2014 to replace Okafor and Ariza, would they have the cap space available in 2015 to go after Durant? (Again this assumes Nene is traded for a contract that expires pre 2015). I think that would be an even better plan if they could actually get Durant.

I doubt it. We wouldn't be able to sign Wall, Booker or Seraphin to 1-year deals because others would offer more, forcing us to match. Vesely would be up for a new contract too and his cap hold would be in the neighborhood of $12M. (His cap hold is likely to be bigger than his actual new contract, so to estimate his cap cost, you need to guess what his new contract is going to cost.) We'd also have Nene, unless you traded him some time ago (it would probably be hard to trade away just the last year of his contract). But if you traded him, chances are 2014/15 may have been a pretty rough year with neither Nene or Okafor around.

[Dat2U]

My point was - trading for players who can shoot well and efficiently (and do other things reasonably well) would have fit the Wiz needs a LOT better than getting 2 relatively offensively-challenged players like Okafor and Ariza.

I get your point, and I think that for Lewis' dead corpse, the Wizards could only have had an overpayed defenseless chucker who would have been detrimental to the team balance. Sure a good 3 and D guy would have been great, alas thos guys get payed nowadays and no one would have traded one of them to us without giving us a horrible contract with it. The FO chose, with the weak hand it had, to reinforce the teams's strength, which was only tentative at this stage, and try to make it a real strength and identity.

Why go all in with a weak hand? Why not fold and save your chips for another hand? It was 10 days before the draft! Why rush into something at this stage? No one else was in position to offer NO the financial savings we were able to offer them, so the deal wasn't going anywhere.

[cwb3]

It will be interesting to see if both Okafor and Ariza are still hear come training camp. I suppose there is a possibility of them being some moving parts in other deals to come, but with the saleries they command, its hard to picture how. If they remain on the team I look forward to watching them play and seeing if they can contribute in a positive way. They appear to be solid citizen types, if nothing else, so perhaps they will help/push the younger players to improve. I was less impressed than many here about the late season improvement in play from the team as a whole. I'd like to see if the younger guys are as effective at the beginning of a season, when all teams are playing at thier fullest.

[DCZards]

I was less impressed than many here about the late season improvement in play from the team as a whole. I'd like to see if the younger guys are as effective at the beginning of a season, when all teams are playing at thier fullest.

My guess is that the Zards FO also saw the improvement at the end of the season as a little bit of fool's gold. I think you'll see Okafor and Ariza on the roster at the beginning of the season, if only because Okafor gives them another physical interior defender, as well as their best rebounder, and Ariza, for better or worse, is probably the Zards best SF at this point.

[cwb3]

I was less impressed than many here about the late season improvement in play from the team as a whole. I'd like to see if the younger guys are as effective at the beginning of a season, when all teams are playing at thier fullest.

My guess is that the Zards FO also saw the improvement at the end of the season as a little bit of fool's gold. I think you'll see Okafor and Ariza on the roster at the beginning of the season, if only because Okafor gives them another physical interior defender, as well as their best rebounder, and Ariza, for better or worse, is probably the Zards best SF at this point.

I admit I cannot recall watching Ariza this last season, but recall him being a good defender in seasons past. Hope they and Nene can stay healthy. Those three alone could make the Wizards a bit more easy on the eye. Only question I have is that those three seem better suited to a half-court game, whereas John Wall wants to get out in transition. Then there is the question marks at SG. . .

[Ruzious]

My point was - trading for players who can shoot well and efficiently (and do other things reasonably well) would have fit the Wiz needs a LOT better than getting 2 relatively offensively-challenged players like Okafor and Ariza.

I get your point, and I think that for Lewis' dead corpse, the Wizards could only have had an overpayed defenseless chucker who would have been detrimental to the team balance. Sure a good 3 and D guy would have been great, alas thos guys get payed nowadays and no one would have traded one of them to us without giving us a horrible contract with it. The FO chose, with the weak hand it had, to reinforce the teams's strength, which was only tentative at this stage, and try to make it a real strength and identity.

Why go all in with a weak hand? Why not fold and save your chips for another hand? It was 10 days before the draft! Why rush into something at this stage? No one else was in position to offer NO the financial savings we were able to offer them, so the deal wasn't going anywhere.

And speaking or rush, they could have just bought out Lewis, and signed Rush - and still saved a lot of cap space for next offseason.

[VictorPage44]

Edit: nevermnid worthless withoUt the pic which i coUldnt format

[dangermouse]

If we turn Okafor into Martin and draft MKG, this trade looks a WHOLE lot better.

[willbcocks]

My point was - trading for players who can shoot well and efficiently (and do other things reasonably well) would have fit the Wiz needs a LOT better than getting 2 relatively offensively-challenged players like Okafor and Ariza.

I get your point, and I think that for Lewis' dead corpse, the Wizards could only have had an overpayed defenseless chucker who would have been detrimental to the team balance. Sure a good 3 and D guy would have been great, alas thos guys get payed nowadays and no one would have traded one of them to us without giving us a horrible contract with it. The FO chose, with the weak hand it had, to reinforce the teams's strength, which was only tentative at this stage, and try to make it a real strength and identity.

Why go all in with a weak hand? Why not fold and save your chips for another hand? It was 10 days before the draft! Why rush into something at this stage? No one else was in position to offer NO the financial savings we were able to offer them, so the deal wasn't going anywhere.

Be careful of using a poker analogy!

[verbal8]

If we turn Okafor into Martin and draft MKG, this trade looks a WHOLE lot better.

Other than the Wizards including the 3rd pick, I don't see any way that Houston would go for that swap. Okafor is better than Dalembert(who they dealt basically for cap space). However I doubt the Rockets see him as being $5 million, an extra year and giving up Kevin Martin better.

[VictorPage44]

I get your point, and I think that for Lewis' dead corpse, the Wizards could only have had an overpayed defenseless chucker who would have been detrimental to the team balance. Sure a good 3 and D guy would have been great, alas thos guys get payed nowadays and no one would have traded one of them to us without giving us a horrible contract with it. The FO chose, with the weak hand it had, to reinforce the teams's strength, which was only tentative at this stage, and try to make it a real strength and identity.

Why go all in with a weak hand? Why not fold and save your chips for another hand? It was 10 days before the draft! Why rush into something at this stage? No one else was in position to offer NO the financial savings we were able to offer them, so the deal wasn't going anywhere.

ThoUght veji1 summed it up my perspective pretty well.

Also, though it's been mentioned before, pro-trade people dont see this as going all in. This is short term, possibly half a season if someone's moved at the deadline. Again, we weren't going to sign a franchise changing FA this summer, likely wasnt gonna happen next year either (Ya it's possible, but it was unlikely). We were either going to hand out a 4-5 year deal for an overpaid player before we know what our core is or sit on our hands and suck again (IMO). Dont think sitting on our hands was a good option either, though I dont want to get into any more over-analysis of our players. Basically, we have to wait and see on this. If Okafor and Ariza are riding the bench while #3, cartier martin, seraphin, book, and ves get all the minutes, then this is a bad trade. But if they contribute, then I dont see what the big deal is unless you're Ted's personal accountant.

You say the deal wasnt going anywhere, but that's a pretty huge assumption to make. They could have traded them to seperate teams, right?

[closg00]

Ernie on waiting.

Grunfeld said. "A lot of times what happens, when you wait on situations, the other team might get better offers along the way. Then the trade might go away. We felt good about this."

This is what Ernie said when he made the Foye/Miller trade. Ernie would rather secure a trade early, rather than trying to deal later. Ernie has a pattern of doing this, often ending with him on the losing-end of the trade.

[Bickerstaff]

Ernie on waiting.

Grunfeld said. "A lot of times what happens, when you wait on situations, the other team might get better offers along the way. Then the trade might go away. We felt good about this."

This is what Ernie said when he made the Foye/Miller trade. Ernie would rather secure a trade early, rather than trying to deal later. Ernie has a pattern of doing this, often ending with him on the losing-end of the trade.

First, find the quote where Ernie said that after the Foye/Miller trade. I don't doubt he might have said something like that, but I also don't really trust your memory. Second, find some other examples of Ernie trading too early (and make sure to find several with him coming out on the losing end). Just saying something is a pattern doesn't make it so.

[fishercob]

Come on guys, we need to get this up to 100 pages (and locked) before the draft.

Shall we talk poker theory?

Ben Gordon?

Okafor's course load at UConn?

Let's go, ladies!

[Hoopalotta]

Here is the introduction from Cato the Elder's panegyric on cabbage from De Agricultura:

Cato the Elder: Of the medicinal value of the cabbage: It is the cabbage which surpasses all other vegetables. It may be eaten either cooked or raw; if you eat it raw, dip it into vinegar. It promotes digestion marvellously and is an excellent laxative, and the urine is wholesome for everything. If you wish to drink deep at a banquet and to enjoy your dinner, eat as much raw cabbage as you wish, seasoned with vinegar, before dinner, and likewise after dinner eat some half a dozen leaves; it will make you feel as if you had not dined, and you can drink as much as you please.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/R ... ra/K*.html

It has been my experience that it's a good, solid conversation starter in awkward social situations.

[cwb3]

Here is the introduction from Cato the Elder's panegyric on cabbage from De Agricultura:

Cato the Elder: Of the medicinal value of the cabbage: It is the cabbage which surpasses all other vegetables. It may be eaten either cooked or raw; if you eat it raw, dip it into vinegar. It promotes digestion marvellously and is an excellent laxative, and the urine is wholesome for everything. If you wish to drink deep at a banquet and to enjoy your dinner, eat as much raw cabbage as you wish, seasoned with vinegar, before dinner, and likewise after dinner eat some half a dozen leaves; it will make you feel as if you had not dined, and you can drink as much as you please.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/R ... ra/K*.html

It has been my experience that it's a good, solid conversation starter in awkward social situations.

My draft night menu is set. . .many thanks!

[DCZards]

Come on guys, we need to get this up to 100 pages (and locked) before the draft.

Shall we talk poker theory?

Ben Gordon?

Okafor's course load at UConn?

Let's go, ladies!

Yeah, "locked" is the key word. Time to move on.

[Nivek]

Come on guys, we need to get this up to 100 pages (and locked) before the draft.

Shall we talk poker theory?

Poker is not a game of chance -- it's a contest of decision making.

Ben Gordon?

I've always liked his name. Just sounds cool.

Okafor's course load at UConn?

I have no thoughts on this at all.