#12, Brockman, Leuer, SL for #14, Dalembert

[Newz]

Europa is a pretty bright guy when it comes to basketball, but he has some goofy theories at times.

The whole blaming Skiles things for trades or signings thing baffles me. He's the coach, not the GM or the owner.

[xTitan]

Europa is a pretty bright guy when it comes to basketball, but he has some goofy theories at times.

The whole blaming Skiles things for trades or signings thing baffles me. He's the coach, not the GM or the owner.

AT this point there are about 6 or more chef's in the kitchen and I would agree with Europa that Skiles has Herbies ear more than Hammond. I would also point out that Skiles couldn't care less anymore.

[europa]

Europa is a pretty bright guy when it comes to basketball, but he has some goofy theories at times.

The whole blaming Skiles things for trades or signings thing baffles me. He's the coach, not the GM or the owner.

Why shouldn't he be blamed when he has direct involvement in personnel decisions? I'm not sure why you think that's goofy. Karl had a much larger role when he was with the Bucks. He was pretty much the GM for all intents and purposes. Who do you think was the driving force behind the Ray Allen trade? It was definitely Karl.

I apply blame where blame is responsible in my opinion. I see no reason to turn a blind eye to how situations develop and whose hand may be involved in how something unfolds. If that's goofy, so be it.

[europa]

I would also point out that Skiles couldn't care less anymore.

That's for damn sure. It was pretty apparent that was the case when he asked Kohl for a buyout last February.

[xTitan]

I would also point out that Skiles couldn't care less anymore.

That's for damn sure. It was pretty apparent that was the case when he asked Kohl for a buyout last February.

And cleaned out his office and told everybody he was gone.

[Buckrageous]

I would also point out that Skiles couldn't care less anymore.

That's for damn sure. It was pretty apparent that was the case when he asked Kohl for a buyout last February.

And cleaned out his office and told everybody he was gone.

They should have considered that his resignation and fought the buyout.

[europa]

I would also point out that Skiles couldn't care less anymore.

That's for damn sure. It was pretty apparent that was the case when he asked Kohl for a buyout last February.

And cleaned out his office and told everybody he was gone.

Yup. I would've loved to have been there when he came back. That had to be an outstanding day at the office.

[xTitan]

With all of that being said, Herb still has much more trust in Skiles then he has in Hammond....would you be 100% shocked if Hammond got the Grunfeld treatment? Gone sometime after the draft?

[Newz]

Europa is a pretty bright guy when it comes to basketball, but he has some goofy theories at times.

The whole blaming Skiles things for trades or signings thing baffles me. He's the coach, not the GM or the owner.

Why shouldn't he be blamed when he has direct involvement in personnel decisions? I'm not sure why you think that's goofy. Karl had a much larger role when he was with the Bucks. He was pretty much the GM for all intents and purposes. Who do you think was the driving force behind the Ray Allen trade? It was definitely Karl.

I apply blame where blame is responsible in my opinion. I see no reason to turn a blind eye to how situations develop and whose hand may be involved in how something unfolds. If that's goofy, so be it.

If the GM and owner are letting the coach manipulate them, that is on the GM and coach. Maybe they shouldn't suck at their jobs. It's not the coaches decision who to draft, who to trade, who to sign, etc. He gets paid to coach. The GM gets paid to make personnel moves.

You apply the blame where you want to. If you look at things logically, the blame for poor personnel moves goes on the GM/owner.

If you want to rip Skiles for playing Gooden a lot? Yeah, that makes sense.

[EastSideBucksFan]

Listening to Woelfel this morning on WSSP just confirmed my fears. He said they have such an investment in Gooden that by acquiring Dalembert this allows them to move Gooden back to PF and makes it much easier to now give Ersan sort of a take it or leave it offer.

We have leverage because we have Gooden?




#DrewGooden4MVP

#DrewGoodenTripleDoubleWatch

[europa]

You apply the blame where you want to.

I apply the blame where it's responsible based on the information provided. Given all I have been told about how personnel moves have occurred on this team since Hammond and Skiles arrived it would be ignorant of me not to blame Skiles when it's due when poor moves are made that he's heavily responsible for. It's obviously on the GM first for making the move but pretending as if the head coach doesn't have significant influence when he clearly does makes no sense to me. You call my opinion foolish and I think you're being extremely naive about how things work, not only in Milwaukee but on a lot of teams. The chain of command isn't always as cut and dried as the titles on your desk may indicate.

And xTitan, nothing would surprise me at this point. About the only thing that would surprise me is if I heard Hammond was hoping to get a contract extension from the Bucks. My guess is he's just like Skiles and wants out and can't wait for his contract to end.

[Newz]

You apply the blame where you want to.

I apply the blame where it's responsible based on the information provided. Given all I have been told about how personnel moves have occurred on this team since Hammond and Skiles arrived it would be ignorant of me not to blame Skiles when it's due when poor moves are made. It's obviously on the GM for making the move but pretending as if the head coach doesn't have significant influence when he clearly does makes no sense to me. You call my opinion foolish and I think you're being extremely naive about how things work, not only in Milwaukee but on a lot of teams. The chain of command isn't always as cut and dried as the titles on your desk may indicate.

And xTitan, nothing would surprise me at this point. About the only thing that would surprise me is if I heard Hammond was hoping to get a contract extension from the Bucks. My guess is he's just like Skiles and wants out and can't wait for his contract to end.

Skiles hasn't made any moves, he is the coach. I'm not naive, I know a lot of NBA personnel people and owners aren't very smart. I know they give into coaches and players. (See: George Karl wanting Anthony Mason)

But this reminds me of when people blamed LeBron for the poor moves being made in Cleveland. He is a player, it's not his fault. Blame it on the guy who is stupid enough to listen to the crappy moves he wants made.

Same thing here. The guy is paid to be the coach. His job is to coach the team. If Hammond and Kohl listen to him and make a stupid move, it's still on them because in the end they approved the move.

I don't get how this is a difficult concept to grasp.

[drew881]

Don't check bucks news for a day, and come back to a 60 page thread. I haven't read all of it, but my general opinion:

1. Moving back 2 spots for Dalembert is not a big loss.
2. However, are we going to resign him after his year is up? I doubt it, and that makes this deal crap. Unless you move him next year as an expiring for something good.

[Dick Tate]

I was amazed by how many folks concluded that a one-year stop-gap meant the Bucks wouldn't draft a center.

[The Wet Whistle]

I was amazed by how many folks concluded that a one-year stop-gap meant the Bucks wouldn't draft a center.

I'm mostly just hopeful that they won't

[ReasonablySober]

I was amazed by how many folks concluded that a one-year stop-gap meant the Bucks wouldn't draft a center.

Honestly, I am too. If anything it could make drafting a guy like Leonard even more likely because you know he'll have a year to sit and learn from Sam.

[Thunder Muscle]

Don't check bucks news for a day, and come back to a 60 page thread. I haven't read all of it, but my general opinion:

1. Moving back 2 spots for Dalembert is not a big loss.
2. However, are we going to resign him after his year is up? I doubt it, and that makes this deal crap. Unless you move him next year as an expiring for something good.

But we got $1.5M too to keep the BC lights from getting turned off.

Dalembert at least buys us a year to figure out the center position if we choose to get elsewhere this year. Also unloaded a bunch of role players. I really don't think it was a bad deal. But we'll see how tonight turns out.

[Buckrageous]

I was amazed by how many folks concluded that a one-year stop-gap meant the Bucks wouldn't draft a center.

Who in this organization is thinking past this year? The coach and GM are lame ducks and the owner is trying to sell. This organization is built on stop-gap moves anyway.

[LUKE23]

This is the most short-term thinking organization on Earth. I am very confident saying it doesn't make it more likely they take a C. Could they still? Sure.

[emunney]

I don't think they think it's relevant and I think they're right. This draft pick is so unlikely to fill a hole for us this year. Hammond has been forward thinking with his 1st rounders to date. They shouldn't even be considering position when they make the pick.