OT: Morey doin work

[GONYK]

To the people bashing Morey, what would you have him do exactly?

After 16 pages of this garbage, I still don't understand how he's screwing up anything except the recruiting aspect.

Morey's flaw isn't roster manipulation, it's that he can't get Deron and Dwight to commit. Certainly you'd think he has the assets Orlando is looking for in a trade. And now he has like 7 players drafted in the early-to-mid 2011 and 2012 first rounds. If he gets fired it's not because his roster is in disarray, it's because he apparently can't recruit to save his life.

He's not screwing anything up. He's just not accomplishing anything. No fan wants a franchise in a holding pattern.

As far as recruiting, no big time star is going to commit to play in a midmarket like Houston when they their choice of places to play.

[suicidedeuce]

that pretty much puts them in the same category with a lot of teams that have guys who are labeled "stars", " franchise players", etc...

Never used the word K-n-i-c-k-s.

See, we're all just imagining it...

and only time will tell how well they did....

Meaning a rush to judgment, like concluding a certain unmentioned team was left with no means to acquire depth and valuable rotation hours days after a big transaction, is not advisable?

And only time will tell how ANY franchise makes out after a series of moves?

INTeresting perspective. Yeah, think there is some merit to patience and being open-minded about the future.

[TKF]

To the people bashing Morey, what would you have him do exactly?

After 16 pages of this garbage, I still don't understand how he's screwing up anything except the recruiting aspect.

Morey's flaw isn't roster manipulation, it's that he can't get Deron and Dwight to commit. Certainly you'd think he has the assets Orlando is looking for in a trade. And now he has like 7 players drafted in the early-to-mid 2011 and 2012 first rounds. If he gets fired it's not because his roster is in disarray, it's because he apparently can't recruit to save his life.

I don't get the doom and gloom either.. really I don't.. I think he is doing a fine job.. as you said, maybe he just can't recruit.. but heck, all it will take is for a deron or dwight to say yes, and they will be even that much better.... especially if it is dwight....

[GONYK]

To the people bashing Morey, what would you have him do exactly?

After 16 pages of this garbage, I still don't understand how he's screwing up anything except the recruiting aspect.

Morey's flaw isn't roster manipulation, it's that he can't get Deron and Dwight to commit. Certainly you'd think he has the assets Orlando is looking for in a trade. And now he has like 7 players drafted in the early-to-mid 2011 and 2012 first rounds. If he gets fired it's not because his roster is in disarray, it's because he apparently can't recruit to save his life.

I don't get the doom and gloom either.. really I don't.. I think he is doing a fine job.. as you said, maybe he just can't recruit.. but heck, all it will take is for a deron or dwight to say yes, and they will be even that much better.... especially if it is dwight....

And there, as the bard says, lies the rub

Ain't nobody lining up to play in Houston

[j4remi]

They did a solid in keeping pace but I really only feel Lamb has high enough upside to breakout. At this point it feels like the same song and dance every year with Morey and there's a reason Houston has had it's hand in every star's trade rumors over the past few years going so far as almost landing Pau Gasol last year...Reminds me of Portland, always on the verge of something but somehow never works out.

THAT IS A goodpoint remi, but honestly keeping pace is very important.. Just think, we keep hearing people say, morey must do something, he must do something... Yet, the knicks for example, and we are not the only team remi, have been going out, signing big name players and losing.. this goes back to the isiah era.. so you can see why people are skeptical of this course of action..

yet morey has been taking this path for some time now and the rockets have yet to have a losing season in 6+ seasons.. so keeping pack on a good path is not a bad thing.. not sure what the rush is with houston, they just can't afford to make many mistakes.. I understand that... now that they don't have yao, maybe they are taking a different even more cautious approach as to the type of player they add...

That's a good point and it's not like there's much of a market to work with here...I'm just not enthusiastic about the actual picks Morey made, less boom or bust and more "safe" picks. I just don't see Houston making the step forward without changing something and maybe that's not a bad thing since they have that winning record but at the same time, if a championship is the goal then I think the holding pattern they've been in won't suffice.

[mpharris36]

To the people bashing Morey, what would you have him do exactly?

After 16 pages of this garbage, I still don't understand how he's screwing up anything except the recruiting aspect.

Morey's flaw isn't roster manipulation, it's that he can't get Deron and Dwight to commit. Certainly you'd think he has the assets Orlando is looking for in a trade. And now he has like 7 players drafted in the early-to-mid 2011 and 2012 first rounds. If he gets fired it's not because his roster is in disarray, it's because he apparently can't recruit to save his life.

I don't get the doom and gloom either.. really I don't.. I think he is doing a fine job.. as you said, maybe he just can't recruit.. but heck, all it will take is for a deron or dwight to say yes, and they will be even that much better.... especially if it is dwight....

And there, as the bard says, lies the rub

Ain't nobody lining up to play in Houston

well i woulder penalize Morey for that. I really don't like the idea of grabbing 9-10 similar young players and beign mediocre so I think he is wrong going that direction. Not sure if he had the chance to jump into the top 5 but if he did that was a mistake.

But Morey can't up and move the franchise...he is dealt his cards playing in houston so it is a little tougher.

However I do think he messed up becuase he had some picks to play with if he knew Howard and Williams weren't coming, and the kings pulled out of the deal for #5 he should have trade 1 or 2 of the picks for future picks. He need to get a high lottery pick. That is the only way for houston to be relative.

He can't continue to mire in mediocracy or he will end of the lottery 1 and done in the playoffs type team...and for that u get fired!

[omerome]

The way I see it and many others as well is, unless you're the Lakers (who for some reason teams love to help), you need at some point to suck bad enough to get good picks to improve if your team doesn't have franchise caliber players or take risks with the assets you do have. Sure, we gave up a lot for Melo and while our team has holes, we have the potential to become a threat. I don't see that with Houston. Even if they don't have a terrible roster, if I was a fan, I wouldn't be excited about that team at all. Too many "ho-hum" players there.

Morey made the moves of picking the "safe" or "low risk" players instead of taking risks. With the way the West is improving from the bottom and the top, Houston will have a hard time becoming a contender and also will be too good to be crappy enough to draft the difference maker their team needs. At some point Morey needs to make a decision because being mediocre is not where I as a fan want my team to be.

[sol537]

There are many ways to skin a cat.

Miami did it two different ways under Pat Riley. First they drafted well (Odom, Wade, Butler) and then once those guys developed, they were able to send Odom, Butler, and a few other pieces for a disgruntled Shaq. Timing was key, of course. But the real key was to draft well and develop those players into attractive pieces either to help you win or to bundle and trade for stars to help you win.

Then you have OKC who basically nailed every draft pick in the last few years. They made some smart financial decisions, kept their players happy, and developed them well. Now they should contend for the next 5+ years.

Now back to Miami. They kept Wade, unloaded everyone else for cap space, had Wade convince Bosh and Lebron to come to Miami for a title run and that worked too.

The Spurs basically did it with tanking one season and then hitting the jackpot with Duncan plus very intelligent, and forward looking drafting by their management to be the first real team to take advantage of the international explosion.

Detroit, under Dumars, drafted well with Prince, and then made some great trades for Billups, Hamilton, and Ben Wallace (all very talented players who did not really work out elsewhere before then). He got his hall of fame coach (Brown) the right players for his system and they all bought in. Then they got a steal at the draft deadline in Rasheed Wallace who put them over the top. You need luck sometimes, of course, but a combination of 1) Good trades that return productive pieces and that you don't overpay for, 2) smart drafting, 3) having a great coach with his type of players, and 4) getting lucky. That's usually the formula to contend.

The Boston method was similar to the Detroit method in many ways.

Again, there's more than one way to do it, but all ways require a great coach, talent, and getting lucky with your the moves that you make. Tanking is not the only way. In fact, straight on tanking more times than not results in a 5+ seasons of lottery basketball because drafting is not an exact science and there are more busts than "bulls" in the draft and more often than not, the management and coaching is just not very good to finish the deal. Just the way it goes.

[GONYK]

The way I see it and many others as well is, unless you're the Lakers (who for some reason teams love to help), you need at some point to suck bad enough to get good picks to improve if your team doesn't have franchise caliber players or take risks with the assets you do have. Sure, we gave up a lot for Melo and while our team has holes, we have the potential to become a threat. I don't see that with Houston. Even if they don't have a terrible roster, if I was a fan, I wouldn't be excited about that team at all. Too many "ho-hum" players there.

Morey made the moves of picking the "safe" or "low risk" players instead of taking risks. With the way the West is improving from the bottom and the top, Houston will have a hard time becoming a contender and also will be too good to be crappy enough to draft the difference maker their team needs. At some point Morey needs to make a decision because being mediocre is not where I as a fan want my team to be.

Exactly. He's not doing anything wrong. He's just not doing anything. He's like the Toney Douglas of GM's. He has a high assist to turnover ratio and +/- because he never does anything game changing.

I don't know why having 40 win seasons, missing the playoffs, and getting the 15th pick every year is being celebrated here.

[TheToothFairy]

How is drafting 3 good young players who were great value where he drafted them " not accomplishing anything"?

He did the best with what he had

He trade to 12 netted him Lamb, I dont think he gets past Phoenix at 13

White is considered a top 5 talent in the draft

The Kentucky kid was consired a top 5 pick if he came out last yr.

He has enough assets to pull off 2 trades that can make them a contender IMO

sometimes not overreacting or overreaching is the best thing to do

[K_ick_God]

Rockets are going nowhere fast.

Last night was embarrassing. They are firing a single shot pop gun in a war fought with machine guns.

[GONYK]

How is drafting 3 good young players who were great value where he drafted them " not accomplishing anything"?

He did the best with what he had

He trade to 12 netted him Lamb, I dont think he gets past Phoenix at 13

White is considered a top 5 talent in the draft

The Kentucky kid was consired a top 5 pick if he came out last yr.

He has enough assets to pull off 2 trades that can make them a contender IMO

sometimes not overreacting or overreaching is the best thing to do

You think any of those players will become franchise talents you can build around?

If the answer is anything but yes, then Morey didn't do much but make the team a younger version of the team it already was.

And Morey constantly overreaches, see his attempts for Melo or the trade he basically made for Gasol before Stern cockblocked. There is no way of glossing over the fact that Houston needs a star.

[j4remi]

How is drafting 3 good young players who were great value where he drafted them " not accomplishing anything"?

He did the best with what he had

He trade to 12 netted him Lamb, I dont think he gets past Phoenix at 13

White is considered a top 5 talent in the draft

The Kentucky kid was consired a top 5 pick if he came out last yr.

He has enough assets to pull off 2 trades that can make them a contender IMO

sometimes not overreacting or overreaching is the best thing to do

My issue is that he's been doing the safe move for years now and stayed in the exact same position the whole time. If the franchise has been stuck in the mud this long, I can't classify it as overreacting any many...I call it taking a chance and going for change. Morey is riding his assets out to the tune of River Runs Dry right now.

[TKF]

How is drafting 3 good young players who were great value where he drafted them " not accomplishing anything"?

He did the best with what he had

He trade to 12 netted him Lamb, I dont think he gets past Phoenix at 13

White is considered a top 5 talent in the draft

The Kentucky kid was consired a top 5 pick if he came out last yr.

He has enough assets to pull off 2 trades that can make them a contender IMO

sometimes not overreacting or overreaching is the best thing to do

My issue is that he's been doing the safe move for years now and stayed in the exact same position the whole time. If the franchise has been stuck in the mud this long, I can't classify it as overreacting any many...I call it taking a chance and going for change. Morey is riding his assets out to the tune of River Runs Dry right now.

ok remi, so name me one player in the league, that he can package all of those picks and players for that will make them not only a contender, but significantly better than they are right now? Any of those players that can do that are under contract... so what is he supposed to do? he is doing the correct thing..

[GONYK]

How is drafting 3 good young players who were great value where he drafted them " not accomplishing anything"?

He did the best with what he had

He trade to 12 netted him Lamb, I dont think he gets past Phoenix at 13

White is considered a top 5 talent in the draft

The Kentucky kid was consired a top 5 pick if he came out last yr.

He has enough assets to pull off 2 trades that can make them a contender IMO

sometimes not overreacting or overreaching is the best thing to do

My issue is that he's been doing the safe move for years now and stayed in the exact same position the whole time. If the franchise has been stuck in the mud this long, I can't classify it as overreacting any many...I call it taking a chance and going for change. Morey is riding his assets out to the tune of River Runs Dry right now.

ok remi, so name me one player in the league, that he can package all of those picks and players for that will make them not only a contender, but significantly better than they are right now? Any of those players that can do that are under contract... so what is he supposed to do? he is doing the correct thing..

He couldn't even trade for Rudy Gay last night, let alone a player who can make them a contender overnight.

[TKF]

How is drafting 3 good young players who were great value where he drafted them " not accomplishing anything"?

He did the best with what he had

He trade to 12 netted him Lamb, I dont think he gets past Phoenix at 13

White is considered a top 5 talent in the draft

The Kentucky kid was consired a top 5 pick if he came out last yr.

He has enough assets to pull off 2 trades that can make them a contender IMO

sometimes not overreacting or overreaching is the best thing to do

You think any of those players will become franchise talents you can build around?

If the answer is anything but yes, then Morey didn't do much but make the team a younger version of the team it already was.

And Morey constantly overreaches, see his attempts for Melo or the trade he basically made for Gasol before Stern cockblocked. There is no way of glossing over the fact that Houston needs a star.

there are no stars available, and having gasol or melo will not make that team a contender.. lets say they got melo.. they are then the denver nuggets.. was that team a contender? lets say they got pau? they are now the grizzlies, was that team a contender? they need to get as many pieces as they can, continue building a good team and have enough assests to trade for better players while keeping good and key pieces in place...

I am not sure what your remedy is......

[Thugger HBC]

That team is on a mediocrity treadmill, but there isn't anything they could have done better.

Big names are going to willing play there.
The talent level, as far as competing is not good.

Sent from my Asus Transformer Prime TF - 201 using Xparent Sky Blue Tapatalk 2

[GONYK]

How is drafting 3 good young players who were great value where he drafted them " not accomplishing anything"?

He did the best with what he had

He trade to 12 netted him Lamb, I dont think he gets past Phoenix at 13

White is considered a top 5 talent in the draft

The Kentucky kid was consired a top 5 pick if he came out last yr.

He has enough assets to pull off 2 trades that can make them a contender IMO

sometimes not overreacting or overreaching is the best thing to do

You think any of those players will become franchise talents you can build around?

If the answer is anything but yes, then Morey didn't do much but make the team a younger version of the team it already was.

And Morey constantly overreaches, see his attempts for Melo or the trade he basically made for Gasol before Stern cockblocked. There is no way of glossing over the fact that Houston needs a star.

there are no stars available, and having gasol or melo will not make that team a contender.. lets say they got melo.. they are then the denver nuggets.. was that team a contender? lets say they got pau? they are now the grizzlies, was that team a contender? they need to get as many pieces as they can, continue building a good team and have enough assests to trade for better players while keeping good and key pieces in place...

I am not sure what your remedy is......

Neither does Morey. That is the problem. You can't just sit there and keep straddling the fence. That gets you nowhere. I don't advocate tanking under normal circumstances, but Houston really needs to either do that, or wildly overpay for someone. But they have to do something at some point. They aren't getting star via FA or end of contract trades where the player is basically a FA.

I mean, the man has made plays for Melo, Gasol, and now Rudy Gay. He's going down the ladder each time, and is getting nowhere.

[JBreezeNY]

If the job is to contend for a title and all you keep doing is sputtering mediocre season after mediocre season with "young talent" every year, how the hell are you gonna convince the fans hell even your own management that you're heading in the right direction & not going in circles?

Their whole big plan for Dwight flopped & that was going to be the crowning achievement, the reward, the revenge laugh for everybody who made jokes about his safe moves.

Let me repeat that again......his big plan for Dwight FLOPPED

F-L-O-P-P-E-D

You know what happens now? Now they have to pray their young players can develop under Scola & Kevin Martin so they can lead Houston to 1st round exits every year.

Ain't mediocrity a b*tch?

[j4remi]

Trade for future picks, make better offers, pick someone that's a reach...do something risky. This draft falls in the, "yep, that's Morey for you" field. If the multitude of pieces he has stockpiled than repackaged for more young pieces over and over in an endless cycle aren't good enough to either trade up or trade for a star than he's doing something wrong.

SO YOU ARE assuming he didn't make his best offers? and trade for future picks? he can still do that. but why do that if you are saying he is perpetuating this endless cycle?