OT: Morey doin work

[ibraheim718]

I can't believe he's admitting that it's an unfruitful attempt at acquiring a game changing star while still arguing for him to keep doing it?

It's thus far unfruitful, sure. But my entire point is that he's done a great job creating flexibility. Meaning he's not rigidly locked in to the superstar route. His only longterm contract (Scola) is very moveable, and Kmart is expiring. Flexibility means he can go in any number of directions instead of being painted into corners like we were for the better part of two decades preceding Walsh.

Let's give him credit when it amounts to something substantial. What he's done shouldn't be ammunition to bash the position our team is in and that's how the whole thing started. Some of you guys should be more appreciative and grateful of the team we have now. Especially when the one guy that gets all the heat is the only guy that really wanted to play for the Knicks, the fans, and the city.

[JBreezeNY]

it seems that the Knicks fans like the draft for Houston more than the houston fans do. This article agrees with my feeling on their draft:
http://www.examiner.com/article/rockets-draft-grade-meh

The truth is they are all nice players who might develop into rotation guys. None will be all-stars. In other words, the Rockets picked up more of what they already had.

They tried to trade up, but failed. They tried to land a big name player, but failed. Gosh, they were close, but came up short.

Again.

The Rockets are stuck on the mediocrity train. The team is no better today than it was when the season ended. In fact, they might be worse, considering they don't have a center on the roster. It's hard to fault GM Daryl Morey, because he has been trying to set the team up for a big move since the Yao Ming days. He had made one with Pau Gasol, but David Stern essentially hosed him. Since, they have pursued Dwight Howard, among others, and haven't been able to get anything done.

It's easy to see why. The Rockets are a nice little team. With nice little players. Nicely stuck in ninth in the Western Conference. They don't have a single player that other teams lust after. They just have a lot of really good supporting parts.

The only way to get a great player is through trade, which is tough, or to bottom out and get high picks, which requires several years of sucking. You could argue that's better than several years of mediocrity. They won't make a splash in free agency, because big free agents want to play in more high profile places.

So the end result? The Rockets are right where they have been the past three years. A nice little team.

A nice little mediocre team.

The Rockets had three mediocre picks Thursday night. They got three nice players, all of which they already had on the roster. Unless there is another move pending, Rockets fans can expect more of the same in 2012-13.

Close to the playoffs, but not quite good enough. A nice little team.

Again.

[god shammgod]

I can't believe he's admitting that it's an unfruitful attempt at acquiring a game changing star while still arguing for him to keep doing it?

It's thus far unfruitful, sure. But my entire point is that he's done a great job creating flexibility. Meaning he's not rigidly locked in to the superstar route. His only longterm contract (Scola) is very moveable, and Kmart is expiring. Flexibility means he can go in any number of directions instead of being painted into corners like we were for the better part of two decades preceding Walsh.

Let's give him credit when it amounts to something substantial. What he's done shouldn't be ammunition to bash the position our team is in and that's how the whole thing started. Some of you guys should be more appreciative and grateful of the team we have now. Especially when the one guy that gets all the heat is the only guy that really wanted to play for the Knicks, the fans, and the city.

that is what started all of this. it was the idea that a team with cap space and mediocre draft picks was somehow in a better position then us. the guy in charge there would love to switch positions with us and give up that flexibility for a star.

[GONYK]

that is what started all of this. it was the idea that a team with cap space and mediocre draft picks was somehow in a better position then us. the guy in charge there would love to switch positions with us and give up that flexibility for a star.

We have 4 stars

[cgmw]

Let's give him credit when it amounts to something substantial. What he's done shouldn't be ammunition to bash the position our team is in and that's how the whole thing started. Some of you guys should be more appreciative and grateful of the team we have now. Especially when the one guy that gets all the heat is the only guy that really wanted to play for the Knicks, the fans, and the city.

That's a separate argument entirely.

I'm very happy to have Carmelo despite the fact I think Dolan was a complete douche for stepping in and killing Walsh's leverage.

What I'm not fine with is the 15 years before Walsh where we made dumb trade after dumb signing in the name of making moves. I'm not fine with the fact that we kept selling off the future in order to get a crappy present. And if you think the current Knicks don't suffer for the sins of our past, just think how nice it would be to have had a 1st round pick yesterday (not that that's the only sacrifice because it's not, not even close).

So I'm not ungrateful for Carmelo or Tyson or Lin or Amar'e (except for Amare's ridiculous contract), I'm ungrateful for the 20 years of bullsh*t management that preceded them. The difference between us is that I see plenty of flaws on the current Knicks and believe sincerely that they are the result of past mismanagement, specifically painting ourselves into corners through dumb trades and dumber FA signings.

Would I give up Carmelo, Tyson, and Lin to be in the Rocket's shoes? Abso-f*king-lutely not! But that doesn't mean Morey isn't doing a good job creating roster flexibility.

As for his abilities as a talent-evaluator, I guess that's a very valid critique that I don't know much about. Parsons and Lee seem like nice young players for where they were drafted, and certainly Lowry & Dragic looked great. That KMart contract was awful, but it's almost over. And Scola is solid.

[cgmw]

To the people bashing Morey, what would you have him do exactly?

After 16 pages of this garbage, I still don't understand how he's screwing up anything except the recruiting aspect.

Morey's flaw isn't roster manipulation, it's that he can't get Deron and Dwight to commit. Certainly you'd think he has the assets Orlando is looking for in a trade. And now he has like 7 players drafted in the early-to-mid 2011 and 2012 first rounds. If he gets fired it's not because his roster is in disarray, it's because he apparently can't recruit to save his life.

Morey should either make an all in move, for Josh Smith etc and build around proven talents smith and Martin, or do the exact reverse, and trade the best players for future compensation.

Who needs a point guard?

Portland needs one, they spent a pick on an unproven dude.
Toronto needs a good one
Philly could stand an upgrade to Jrue
Orlando surely a buyer.

If I am the Rockets, I call OKC, ask them about a deal involving Lowry for Ibaka, when that folds, see what other offers are on the table.

Kevin Martin is a decent player, what could/would the MAgic give up for him?? How about the CLippers? The Celtics??

Either trade up or down the ladder, rather than hoping you can built a 2 year window on Pau Gasol.

I can make a list of literally 15 trades that would accomplish either side of these anti-treadmill goals. Personally, I think the mission should be to become young and athletic.

Examples deals for my above scenario:
1) sign Dragic
2) Trade Kyle Lowry to the Pacers, Collison to OKC each sending a future first to Hou
3) Scola and Kevin Martin for Glen Davis, Nelson and a protected 1st round pick
4) Ship Nelson to Portland in the same deal for 2nd round pick and Shawne Williams contract

Starting lineup:
Davis
Morris/White/Brockman/Leuer
Parsons/Williams
Lamb/Livingston
Dragic

With available cap space: Off a team, like Dallas the opportunity to trade a pick with a bad contract
(Warriors Beidrins for cap space??)

After these deals: 1st rounders: HOU(1-4 range), IND(20-24 range), OKC(28-30 range), ORL(18-22 range). 2nd rounders HOU(31-33 range), POR(40-50 range)

Ok, fair enough.

Again, Morey might not have the greatest team in the world, but he has short-term contracts, rookie contracts, cap space, and all his future picks in tact. I don't know if the above suggestion is where he's going, but he's going somewhere. It's only June. I'm just giving the guy credit for keeping his options open and expressing some jealousy as a lifelong Knick fan at the prospect of having this many options.

My thinking is that if you combine a flexibile roster with a superstar magnet like NYC/MSG, good things happen. My suspicion is that the Knicks won't win a 'chip until they start building for real instead of always playing catch up for poor decisions in their past.

[cgmw]

it seems that the Knicks fans like the draft for Houston more than the houston fans do. This article agrees with my feeling on their draft:
http://www.examiner.com/article/rockets-draft-grade-meh

The truth is they are all nice players who might develop into rotation guys. None will be all-stars. In other words, the Rockets picked up more of what they already had.

They tried to trade up, but failed. They tried to land a big name player, but failed. Gosh, they were close, but came up short.

Again.

The Rockets are stuck on the mediocrity train. The team is no better today than it was when the season ended. In fact, they might be worse, considering they don't have a center on the roster. It's hard to fault GM Daryl Morey, because he has been trying to set the team up for a big move since the Yao Ming days. He had made one with Pau Gasol, but David Stern essentially hosed him. Since, they have pursued Dwight Howard, among others, and haven't been able to get anything done.

It's easy to see why. The Rockets are a nice little team. With nice little players. Nicely stuck in ninth in the Western Conference. They don't have a single player that other teams lust after. They just have a lot of really good supporting parts.

The only way to get a great player is through trade, which is tough, or to bottom out and get high picks, which requires several years of sucking. You could argue that's better than several years of mediocrity. They won't make a splash in free agency, because big free agents want to play in more high profile places.

So the end result? The Rockets are right where they have been the past three years. A nice little team.

A nice little mediocre team.

The Rockets had three mediocre picks Thursday night. They got three nice players, all of which they already had on the roster. Unless there is another move pending, Rockets fans can expect more of the same in 2012-13.

Close to the playoffs, but not quite good enough. A nice little team.

Again.

that sums up what a lot of us are saying.

Apparently I'm the voice of the opposition even though I agree with everything this article says. I'd only point out that it's still June, and Morey has plenty of time to make his move, whatever that move might be. Too early to write him off just yet.

[TKF]

I don't see how it hurts the Rockets to tank for a year or two. Most of their assets are young guys on rookie contracts. They'd just have to deal Lowry, Martin, and Scola. It's not like they can't replace those players down the line. And Martin and Scola are too old to be part of any rebuilding process.

That's the smartest thing to do... But he needs to start doing that now. He needs to stop chasing that big name because he's not going to get it.

Field a starting line up of Dragic, Lamb, Parsons, White and whoever they can at the 5 and bring Jones off the bench.

I agree too. Except you just don't pull the trigger on shipping out Scola/Martin/Lowry until you're positive Dwight isn't an option. Problem with Dwight is that nothing is definite until the 11th f*kin hour.

Not to start a whole nother debate, but if we had any young assets, cap space or future picks to offer, Scola & KMart would fit great right here in NY.

BOY WOULD THEY.... I always felt kevin martin would kill in a dantoni offense..

[Knicker23]

Why not be happy with the young guys we currently have like Shumpert and Lin? Grass is always greener with some of these revolving door people

* And this isn't the DanPhony offense anymore.

[TKF]

What assets does he have? Once again, the Rockets are not the Knicks. There are no potential all-stars on the Rockets roster, no high ceiling players, nothing.

The best asset on the Rockets is Kyle Lowry and for whatever reason he has little value around the league (they weren't able to package him with picks to move up when they were clearly targeting Drummond).


Carmelo Anthony is the only star who has been traded for mediocre rotation-level players who have never posted PER's over 18. This happened because Melo demanded to go to the team he was traded to. Houston doesn't even have enough assets to get Pau Gasol, let alone a superstar that can single-handedly win games in the playoffs and get you there.


There's no Kanter on the Rockets, no Favors, no top 5 picks, no Eric Gordon, no T'Wolves unprotected lottery pick, no Bynum, no Gasol, nothing. They have no assets for real quality. They have assets if they want to trade for a barely above-average career loser player like Kevin Martin, but they aren't getting a first option and will be lucky to get a 2nd option.


Activity doesn't equal success. Rockets have done nothing. Their ceiling is the 8th seed, I guess their fans should be happy about being the poor-man's Denver?

This is the same guy who traded the draft rights to Batum for Joey Dorsey and then raved about how he was the best defensive player in the draft and being a 6'5 center wasn't that big of a deal and not undersized.

There are no potential all-stars on the Rockets roster, no high ceiling players, nothing.

they drafted one last night.. lamb has All star potential... for sure..

Houston doesn't even have enough assets to get Pau Gasol, l

not true, they actually had pau gasol in a trade until stern got involved..

There's no Kanter on the Rockets, no Favors, no top 5 picks, no Eric Gordon, no T'Wolves unprotected lottery pick, no Bynum, no Gasol, nothing. They have no assets for real quality. They have assets if they want to trade for a barely above-average career loser player like Kevin Martin, but they aren't getting a first option and will be lucky to get a 2nd option.

again, lamb has the potential to be just as good as favors, gordon or any of those guys..

Activity doesn't equal success. Rockets have done nothing. Their ceiling is the 8th seed, I guess their fans should be happy about being the poor-man's Denver?

the offseason just started... you really don't know what their ceiling is... when you have flexibility and young talent, you can turn things in an instant...

[Mr. E]

Rocket fan here.

As some of you might imagine there is quite a bit of growing discontent with Morey amongst the dwindling Rockets faithful. I don't think that some of his criticism is warranted - specifically the Yao/McGrady years when he was not allowed to move either or rebuild - but...well, it's best put in baseball terms.

Daryl Morey has proven to be a great lead-off hitter. His on-base percentage is all-star worthy; but so far he has not shown the ability to hit for power. His one big hit - the Gasol deal - was called back by the umpire.

The thing that has to be applauded for Morey is that he is very smart with money & contracts, and he has kept the Rockets competitive while avoiding any cap-crippling deals. He has kept this team competitive with nothing but role players, many of whom are interchangeable and replaceable.

The one big criticism of Morey I kept hearing on the radio waves today is that he is too cautious and is completely unwilling to take a risk on a player. I don't think that is a completely fair criticism (see Terrence Williams); but there is something there.

Bottom line - base hits are awesome. Now swing for the fences.

[TheToothFairy]

Rocket fan here.

As some of you might imagine there is quite a bit of growing discontent with Morey amongst the dwindling Rockets faithful. I don't think that some of his criticism is warranted - specifically the Yao/McGrady years when he was not allowed to move either or rebuild - but...well, it's best put in baseball terms.

Daryl Morey has proven to be a great lead-off hitter. His on-base percentage is all-star worthy; but so far he has not shown the ability to hit for power. His one big hit - the Gasol deal - was called back by the umpire.

The thing that has to be applauded for Morey is that he is very smart with money & contracts, and he has kept the Rockets competitive while avoiding any cap-crippling deals. He has kept this team competitive with nothing but role players, many of whom are interchangeable and replaceable.

The one big criticism of Morey I kept hearing on the radio waves today is that he is too cautious and is completely unwilling to take a risk on a player. I don't think that is a completely fair criticism (see Terrence Williams); but there is something there.

Bottom line - base hits are awesome. Now swing for the fences.

I think his doing a good job, Your team reminds me of our Knick team right before we traded for Melo. In fact you have more talent top to bottom

[TKF]

Why not be happy with the young guys we currently have like Shumpert and Lin? Grass is always greener with some of these revolving door people

* And this isn't the DanPhony offense anymore.

I absolutely love our young guys.. wouldn't trade them for anything.. I wish we had stayed the course building young, collecting assets and adding pieces that actually fit.... don't get me wrong.. I think the future of this team is lin and a healthy shump, they have the ability to be a hell of a backcourt.....

[TKF]

Rocket fan here.

As some of you might imagine there is quite a bit of growing discontent with Morey amongst the dwindling Rockets faithful. I don't think that some of his criticism is warranted - specifically the Yao/McGrady years when he was not allowed to move either or rebuild - but...well, it's best put in baseball terms.

Daryl Morey has proven to be a great lead-off hitter. His on-base percentage is all-star worthy; but so far he has not shown the ability to hit for power. His one big hit - the Gasol deal - was called back by the umpire.

The thing that has to be applauded for Morey is that he is very smart with money & contracts, and he has kept the Rockets competitive while avoiding any cap-crippling deals. He has kept this team competitive with nothing but role players, many of whom are interchangeable and replaceable.

The one big criticism of Morey I kept hearing on the radio waves today is that he is too cautious and is completely unwilling to take a risk on a player. I don't think that is a completely fair criticism (see Terrence Williams); but there is something there.

Bottom line - base hits are awesome. Now swing for the fences.

nice analogy, and I think morey did swing for the fences somewhat with gasol, but you can't fault him for stern killing the deal..

I think what some people fail to realize is that a bad deal where you empty out your assets can kill your team for years, I know as a knick fan, we have been through it... the offseason is early, I think morey will take his time and make some more deals, bigger splashes, but still well calculated.

your team still can easily win 40-45 games... and having a winning culture is very, very important... As a fan, a rocket fan, there is no reason to be down on your team at this point.... building a contender is a process, and morey seems to have a handle on what he wants to do..

[carayip]

One major problem to keep collecting assets is that it makes the whole roster redundant and as a result keep diminishing the value of those assets. Martin and Lowry are prime examples. Those are good talented players but now they can't fetch too much in the market because GMs around the league view them as players who are beaten for starting jobs and are troublemakers when they lose minutes/touches, whether it's fair or not. Having too many players who can play and deserve to play will only make all the players unhappy at the end and decrease their original value. This is not good.

[seren]

So now he is shopping Scola?

LOL.

[Knicksfan20]

and no star cares about any of that. they don't want to sign and hope you work it out. they want to know that they're in a good spot when they sign on the dotted line. why is dwight not interested in them ? they have all those assets.

Dude, why is this so hard? YOu're one of the smartest people on here.

Theoretically, Morey is positioning himself to trade for Dwight while outright signing Deron. Problem is, he's having trouble convincing either of them to go for it. BUt it's not for lack of...

ASSETS.

Yea, but if he can't get them, who cares how many assets he has. That is what everyone is saying. Assets are meaningless until you cash them in for something.

I think Morey had a good draft. Where a player is drafted is meaningless. Hypothetically if a team offered Shumpert, Faried, Brooks as part of a package for Dwight, would the Magic be interested? IfHouston struck home with all their picks, they could still be a big time contender in the Howard sweepstakes.

[seren]

Morey doesn't have many assets. He has many young players who have no talent.

[Greenie]

I don't see how it hurts the Rockets to tank for a year or two. Most of their assets are young guys on rookie contracts. They'd just have to deal Lowry, Martin, and Scola. It's not like they can't replace those players down the line. And Martin and Scola are too old to be part of any rebuilding process.

That's the smartest thing to do... But he needs to start doing that now. He needs to stop chasing that big name because he's not going to get it.

Field a starting line up of Dragic, Lamb, Parsons, White and whoever they can at the 5 and bring Jones off the bench.

This

[ibraheim718]

K.C Johnson ‏@KCJHoop

Hearing Rockets prepared to offer Omer Asik in the $8 million range annually. http://trib.in/LNlL23
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