Either Thornton or Tyreke need to come off the bench

[Inigo_Montoya]

Apparently Fields "fixed" his shot after his rookie year and now it is terrible. If he can undo whatever he changed then I figure his shot should come back. If not... welcome to the Kings!

[KF10]

Here are Knicks fans on a different forum talking about Fields' 3PT shot:

why?!?! i don't get it. no arc—horizontal shots that hit the front of the rim. and the young man went to stanford!

His form will not develop unless he makes attempts. It's a growing pain that the Knicks need to live with if Fields is in their long term plan.

last year he was a decent three point shooter.. I don't understand how after supposedly working on his shot this summer it's worse

He should develop a corner 3 like Bowen. shorter distance. His shot is horrendous from far.
I definitely think by next year his shot will be back with a regular schedule.

actually if you notice, opponents let him shoot because they know he's a sucky outside shooter.

I love Landry, but my heart sinks every time he throws up that 3. I have no doubt he will improve on it this summer, but for the time being, he needs to play a little more within his skill set. Stay on the move, make the cuts, run some pick and rolls...if you're open on the mid-range, take it.

You have been in his camp for a while with all this Landry is a good shooter stuff. He is a smart player, a good pick where we got him, maybe even a little glue. But, he can't throw the ball in the ocean if he were sitting on a boat. Shooting does not get worked/figured out with brains.

mrKnickShot - if you think Landry Fields is finished developing as a professional basketball player you are sadly mistaken. His brains will allow him the ability to critique his flaws, which is the first step in correcting them.

I did not say "he is finished developing"! He can develop many parts to his game such as becoming more adept at driving to the hoop/finishing. He has the ugliest shot from all the SG's in the league. Brains will not help him see this flaw - we can all see this flaw. Brains will not help him fix this flaw. Hard work might help but there is no way to know. If it was so easy then all bad shooters would become good shooters.

That being said, there are players who have developed as a shooter - Ariza, Bowen, Barnes, Rick Fox ... but you are just assuming that he gets there and no disrespect to you but its not an educated assumption. Its more like a prayer. His shot needs to be thrown in the garbage and rebuilt from scratch. That is a tall task.

I still dont understand why landry changed his form. last Year he had a decent shot so i dont know what possessed him to change into that awful aiming shot

He worked with a shooting coach last offseason and it seems to have really messed him up. I think he takes a lot of threes because he is left open so much. Similar to Jeffries, guys are taught to pass to the open man. Unfortunately Fields has been far from effective with his jumpshot. Earlier in the season I thought Jeffries looked better on offense but he seems to be back to vintage Jeffries on offense. These guys on the court make it alot easier to double Melo.

fields should just stick to his strength; slashing to the basket. when he starts dribbling with his head down trying to create for himself, it usually results with a turnover.

Landry's "brain" is his problem. You don't think when you shoot, and he is a head case right now.

Who ever is teaching Fields is doing an absolutely terrible job. His form is absolutely garbage. Just watching him take three hurts my eyes. He is actually a good shooter when he isn't thinking.

He hired possibly the worst shooting coach who ever existed during the lockout, intending to speed up his release. Instead it's completely messed up his entire three point shooting. Plus his confidence issues don't help things. I still say give him another offseason- this time give him a good 3pt shooting coach, and see if he returns as a more mature 3rd year player- he's capable of being that kind of player because we saw it the first half of his rookie season.

Just overall bad form and no arc on Fields jumper. Shoots flatfooted and it goes on a line drive bee line. Affects his free throw shooting too. Allan Houston needs to give him some pointers. His tips seemed to help out Shumpert.

Ugly = Ugly and Awful
Perhaps Landry WOULD be better off shooting left handed.
Smart is as Smart does.

For real! Who is his shooting coach? I would like to know. The guy is playing like trash. He plays no D, can shoot, can't finish on lays up, and probably just as bad as D. Howard with free throws. I really hope they bench him when Amare comes back. Fields isn't contributing to this team at all.

lin does help fields look better but as mrKnick pointed out lin wouldnt help fields awful shooting form. I still dont get why fields changed his shooting form i still dont get it

Well then we need a SG who can shoot and who has the stones to play with Melo. That is obviously not Fields.

i dont mind if fields doesnt score much but he just was such a liability today. turning the ball over, no defense, and no hustle

If his awful 3pt shooting was his only problem, we'd be fine...
Fields is hands down the worst player in the Knicks rotation and will be destroyed by whoever we meet in the playoffs. Aside from decent cutting ability, what does he do well on a consistant basis?
At least Jefferies plays particularly good defense all the time...
The poor rotations, bricked free throws and going up soft is getting annoying. And the stuff about Melo being on the court impacting his play, makes it even more difficult. Really, what are we supposed to do bench Melo? Just shows me he's not a NY kinda guy...

I wouldn't even care about anything else if he could just shoot fck FTs, this dude is killing us at the line..How can a guy go from 78% to 59% in a matter of months..

It is hard to understand. He is a bright guy that worked on his game and hired a shooting coach and regressed to the point where he shouldn't be in the rotation. I think the Knicks should re-sign him but his role may need to change. Landry is too smart, too talented and too high character of a guy to let slip away without giving him the q.a. and planning on matching it if it is reasonable.

Looks like he changed his shot during the last offseason. If that's the case, I could see him bouncing back if he manages to improve his shooting form to the levels of his rookie year (39%) but it will be a tall order nonetheless.

[SacKingZZZ]

Here are Knicks fans on a different forum talking about Fields' 3PT shot:

why?!?! i don't get it. no arc—horizontal shots that hit the front of the rim. and the young man went to stanford!

His form will not develop unless he makes attempts. It's a growing pain that the Knicks need to live with if Fields is in their long term plan.

last year he was a decent three point shooter.. I don't understand how after supposedly working on his shot this summer it's worse

He should develop a corner 3 like Bowen. shorter distance. His shot is horrendous from far.
I definitely think by next year his shot will be back with a regular schedule.

actually if you notice, opponents let him shoot because they know he's a sucky outside shooter.

I love Landry, but my heart sinks every time he throws up that 3. I have no doubt he will improve on it this summer, but for the time being, he needs to play a little more within his skill set. Stay on the move, make the cuts, run some pick and rolls...if you're open on the mid-range, take it.

You have been in his camp for a while with all this Landry is a good shooter stuff. He is a smart player, a good pick where we got him, maybe even a little glue. But, he can't throw the ball in the ocean if he were sitting on a boat. Shooting does not get worked/figured out with brains.

mrKnickShot - if you think Landry Fields is finished developing as a professional basketball player you are sadly mistaken. His brains will allow him the ability to critique his flaws, which is the first step in correcting them.

I did not say "he is finished developing"! He can develop many parts to his game such as becoming more adept at driving to the hoop/finishing. He has the ugliest shot from all the SG's in the league. Brains will not help him see this flaw - we can all see this flaw. Brains will not help him fix this flaw. Hard work might help but there is no way to know. If it was so easy then all bad shooters would become good shooters.

That being said, there are players who have developed as a shooter - Ariza, Bowen, Barnes, Rick Fox ... but you are just assuming that he gets there and no disrespect to you but its not an educated assumption. Its more like a prayer. His shot needs to be thrown in the garbage and rebuilt from scratch. That is a tall task.

I still dont understand why landry changed his form. last Year he had a decent shot so i dont know what possessed him to change into that awful aiming shot

He worked with a shooting coach last offseason and it seems to have really messed him up. I think he takes a lot of threes because he is left open so much. Similar to Jeffries, guys are taught to pass to the open man. Unfortunately Fields has been far from effective with his jumpshot. Earlier in the season I thought Jeffries looked better on offense but he seems to be back to vintage Jeffries on offense. These guys on the court make it alot easier to double Melo.

fields should just stick to his strength; slashing to the basket. when he starts dribbling with his head down trying to create for himself, it usually results with a turnover.

Landry's "brain" is his problem. You don't think when you shoot, and he is a head case right now.

Who ever is teaching Fields is doing an absolutely terrible job. His form is absolutely garbage. Just watching him take three hurts my eyes. He is actually a good shooter when he isn't thinking.

He hired possibly the worst shooting coach who ever existed during the lockout, intending to speed up his release. Instead it's completely messed up his entire three point shooting. Plus his confidence issues don't help things. I still say give him another offseason- this time give him a good 3pt shooting coach, and see if he returns as a more mature 3rd year player- he's capable of being that kind of player because we saw it the first half of his rookie season.

Just overall bad form and no arc on Fields jumper. Shoots flatfooted and it goes on a line drive bee line. Affects his free throw shooting too. Allan Houston needs to give him some pointers. His tips seemed to help out Shumpert.

Ugly = Ugly and Awful
Perhaps Landry WOULD be better off shooting left handed.
Smart is as Smart does.

For real! Who is his shooting coach? I would like to know. The guy is playing like trash. He plays no D, can shoot, can't finish on lays up, and probably just as bad as D. Howard with free throws. I really hope they bench him when Amare comes back. Fields isn't contributing to this team at all.

lin does help fields look better but as mrKnick pointed out lin wouldnt help fields awful shooting form. I still dont get why fields changed his shooting form i still dont get it

Well then we need a SG who can shoot and who has the stones to play with Melo. That is obviously not Fields.

i dont mind if fields doesnt score much but he just was such a liability today. turning the ball over, no defense, and no hustle

If his awful 3pt shooting was his only problem, we'd be fine...
Fields is hands down the worst player in the Knicks rotation and will be destroyed by whoever we meet in the playoffs. Aside from decent cutting ability, what does he do well on a consistant basis?
At least Jefferies plays particularly good defense all the time...
The poor rotations, bricked free throws and going up soft is getting annoying. And the stuff about Melo being on the court impacting his play, makes it even more difficult. Really, what are we supposed to do bench Melo? Just shows me he's not a NY kinda guy...

I wouldn't even care about anything else if he could just shoot fck FTs, this dude is killing us at the line..How can a guy go from 78% to 59% in a matter of months..

It is hard to understand. He is a bright guy that worked on his game and hired a shooting coach and regressed to the point where he shouldn't be in the rotation. I think the Knicks should re-sign him but his role may need to change. Landry is too smart, too talented and too high character of a guy to let slip away without giving him the q.a. and planning on matching it if it is reasonable.

Looks like he changed his shot during the last offseason. If that's the case, I could see him bouncing back if he manages to improve his shooting form to the levels of his rookie year (39%) but it will be a tall order nonetheless.

I'm certainly not going to fret when I've seen 3 point shooters go through similar struggles, especially when their role has changed, their position has changed, or the way their team plays has changed. All things that are the case with that team. I watched him at Standford, I watched him his rookie year, and I watched him last year. He'll be fine as a spot shooter and he's not over the hill so he can change things in terms of what his role is as a shooter. John Salmons has shot the ball from 3 a lot better than last year, but to ask him to turn into a spot shooter from the corner or to spread the floor is a stretch because he's tailored his game to his own style of play. Landry is a younger role player, moreso than John so I think it would be fine. I also like his willingness to defer and be that 7-9 ppg guy who will pick up whoever defensively, he'll cut to the basket (another major plus offensively) and he's athletic on both ends of the floor.

You can go on this forum and probably be convinced DeMarcus is a bust if you pull enough quotes. Don't know exactly what he was trying to work on with his shooting coach, but I would imagine it probably had something to do with his ability to create his own shot, which I did watch him do at times. Don't need or want that here.

[SacKingZZZ]

Eh, that's somewhat subjective. That's because this team lacks shooting overall and put units on the floor that literally had NO shooting whatsoever yet they were "better" defensively. Even the good shooters didn't shoot well which speaks to an overall lack of understanding or true system to consistently get good shots. Shooting is more repetition than anything else. If you are a corner 3 guy playing sporadic minutes, getting sporadic looks in the offense you'll probably shoot sporadically. If you stick a guy in the corner who is supposed to be better defensively but can't hit the side of a barn how much did you really help yourself?

This team could have gone towards a direction where they were bringing in defensive role playing personnel to fill gaps, but they didn't. They brought in more offense and offensive rebounding. Coach Smart wants to play up tempo. If that's your identity you can't put one of the worst shooting lineups you can for most of the game and expect to win in that style of play. It goes back to commitment as to what you are and how you want to play.

New York is going to have to work in the new NBA. There's a downside to overpaying at 3 positions. It's also hard to compare shooting years, he shot extremely well his first year from 3. Last year? Lot of change around him and I think with the Kings he'd be used more like he was his first year in the league. Bad offensive sets or systems kill shooting and even good shooters sometimes. Especially spot shooters. I like Fields because he's by far the closest answer to what you'd like defensively at SF that has also shown potential as a shooter and who you might not have to break the bank for.

I mean, if you look at the numbers, the Kings were in the bottom-5 in 3PT shooting the last two seasons. I don't think it's "overall lack of understanding or true system to consistently get good shots." We are a horrid 3PT shooting team that happens to shoot ALOT of 3PTers. Sure, we got some guys that SHOULD have shot the 3PTer ALOT better i.e. Garcia, Salmons, Greene, Outlaw but that's what you get for playing inconsistent players, you get inconsistent play. The Kings needs to get a legit 3PT specialist(s) if we want to improve our spacing. I have almost no faith the group above to shoot the 3PTer at a consistent level. I would do a massive face palm if Petrie/Smart gives that group "another shot to redeem" themselves. Please, we need someone who is already established as a 3PT sniper and can drill them any time when need it!

The Kings horribly misused Jimmer last year. We put him in a "ball-handling" role rather than a "spot-up" role. He's the only player that can really fall down to your reasoning. I shake my head every time when we utlize Jimmer as an orchestrator (P&R) on offense. He needs to be in a position that uses his strengths at every opportunity, unfortunately we didn't do that last season.

I don't know what to think about Fields. Last year can be an anomaly and will bounce back to his rookie-level shooting (39%) OR he's on a trajectory of mediocre shooting (25%). I'm skimming through his shooting numbers, it's a HUGE contrast between his first and second year. You have to remember a guy like Donte Greene had a 38% 3PT season where he attempted 2 a game. Look at him now, dude is barely breaking the 24% mark and is about to be jobless. Not saying Fields is going to be like Greene but it's something to take into consideration.

It's like you've pulled a response I've made a 100 times. We're usually pretty much on the same page, but we're spot on in you're first two paragraphs.

I wouldn't expect him to fully return to the shooter he was his first year, some of that was the D'Antoni effect. His history with players goes to show you sometimes system is everything. I'm not saying Fields is a "sniper" but he's the best combo of defense, shooting, and willingness to defer on the market. That willingness to defer is crucial in this instance especially after drafting Thomas Robinson.

I really thought this was the year the Kings were going to start making those types of moves that were obvious. I thought the Hayes move last year was obvious, but then I watched the interim coach consistently use him in an unintended way. I think after drafting Robinson they may very well just sit back, re-sign JT and TWill, fix NONE of the issues they needed to fix and said they were going to, and just hope for the best. Hey, the team improved towards the end last year so that's a positive. If they clog cap to bring back JT and TWill though, they're making wrong moves that will lead this team unable to get to their highest possible magnitude IMO.

[Inigo_Montoya]

Beyond the crap shooting I get the impression that he wasn't feeling very comfortable with the team after Linsanity ended and the coaching change. For all of Smart's faults I think that he is the kind of coach who would be able to get a guy like Fields back into his groove. Also, Fields is a willing passer which is a sorely needed skill from role-players on this team.

[SacKingZZZ]

And a good one too. He can run point pretty well.

[pillwenney]

I think a pretty big part of our low 3P% last year was shot selection. Marcus Thornton isn't a 34% three point shooter if he's taking good shots. But they weren't always good shots. Tyreke brought down our percentage and he shouldn't have because he shouldn't be ever taking 3 point shots unless a shotclock is about to expire.

Otherwise, it was really Outlaw, Garcia, Greene and Salmons that dragged it down. Donte is gone, Outlaw shouldn't be playing, and if Salmons is coming off the bench, he should be much better from everywhere--3 included. Cisco, I don't know what the deal was.

But the point is, okay, we weren't a great 3 point shooting team. That wasn't really the problem though. The problem is that despite being second to last in 3 point percentage, we were in the middle of the pack in attempts. Utah was barely better than us from 3 in terms of percentage, but they knew that and therefore didn't take many 3's. As a result, they had the 6th best offense in the league and were a playoff team.

Shooting is a problem, but the real problem is the trigger-happy, disorganized, no discipline nature of our guards. It mostly comes down to a lack of discipline and a real PG would do wonders to rectify that.

[SacKingZZZ]

I think a pretty big part of our low 3P% last year was shot selection. Marcus Thornton isn't a 34% three point shooter if he's taking good shots. But they weren't always good shots. Tyreke brought down our percentage and he shouldn't have because he shouldn't be ever taking 3 point shots unless a shotclock is about to expire.

Otherwise, it was really Outlaw, Garcia, Greene and Salmons that dragged it down. Donte is gone, Outlaw shouldn't be playing, and if Salmons is coming off the bench, he should be much better from everywhere--3 included. Cisco, I don't know what the deal was.

But the point is, okay, we weren't a great 3 point shooting team. That wasn't really the problem though. The problem is that despite being second to last in 3 point percentage, we were in the middle of the pack in attempts. Utah was barely better than us from 3 in terms of percentage, but they knew that and therefore didn't take many 3's. As a result, they had the 6th best offense in the league and were a playoff team.

Shooting is a problem, but the real problem is the trigger-happy, disorganized, no discipline nature of our guards. It mostly comes down to a lack of discipline and a real PG would do wonders to rectify that.

Exactly, but the reason is there were no threats out there, and this team is playing a spread offense style. Evans is a spread offense player. Post bigs need room. The Kings couldn't even spread the floor from deep 2 point range with the groups they put on the floor and overplayed a driving/pick and roll game more than they should and way more than they should for a team that can't spread the floor. The Kings don't need to jump into the top 5 in 3 point %, they just need to put some respectable shooting around their stars so they can space the floor a little. System will help but much like shotblocking, spot shooting almost entirely personnel related.

[pillwenney]

Yeah, no. The shooting won't improve much if we don't get better shooters, but the offense can improve pretty drastically without improving the shooting at all. There were times when we could have opted to run better sets, but there were also tons of times when we didn't run anything.

I would argue that those driving and pick and roll sets weren't really set ups at all. I think that's just what teams do when they're dicking around and not running anything in particular. It's not bad organization as much as it is a lack of organization. You can see the difference. When the Spurs run a pick and roll, it's done like "Alright. Duncan sets a pick right **** here. And Parker is going to drive right **** here. You other three are rotating to this spot, this spot, and this spot."

When the Kings do it, it's because Tyreke has been dribbling for 18 seconds and he's like "Hey Jason, come like, set a pick for me or something. Then I'll drive and some crap will happen, and hopefully a dude will be open."

And beyond the capability of our shooters, that's the real problem. You need strong shooting to have a really strong offense, but if you can have a pretty damn good one with the shooters we've got. The problem is that usually, the guy with the ball in his hands, isn't driving driving with a real purpose. He's driving to see what happens.

[SacKingZZZ]

Yeah, no. The shooting won't improve much if we don't get better shooters, but the offense can improve pretty drastically without improving the shooting at all. There were times when we could have opted to run better sets, but there were also tons of times when we didn't run anything.

I would argue that those driving and pick and roll sets weren't really set ups at all. I think that's just what teams do when they're dicking around and not running anything in particular. It's not bad organization as much as it is a lack of organization. You can see the difference. When the Spurs run a pick and roll, it's done like "Alright. Duncan sets a pick right **** here. And Parker is going to drive right **** here. You other three are rotating to this spot, this spot, and this spot."

When the Kings do it, it's because Tyreke has been dribbling for 18 seconds and he's like "Hey Jason, come like, set a pick for me or something. Then I'll drive and some crap will happen, and hopefully a dude will be open."

And beyond the capability of our shooters, that's the real problem. You need strong shooting to have a really strong offense, but if you can have a pretty damn good one with the shooters we've got. The problem is that usually, the guy with the ball in his hands, isn't driving driving with a real purpose. He's driving to see what happens.

As the year wore on I really think it became less and less about offense and more and more about a clear lack of ability relative to personnel and the lack of commitment to a consistent philosophy.

I really don't remember to much of Tyreke doing that. Did it happen at times? Yes, but that wasn't the downfall of the offense. The downfall was trying to play a style not befitting the talent on the team, not using players like Chuck Hayes and Jimmer Fredette in particular for the reasons they were brought in for, not putting the most balanced lineups on the floor that you could, and most importantly that lack of commitment to a specific style. Smart still gets a pass, because he may have been experimenting but both he and Geoff Petrie better not get any passes past the deadline if this makes as little sense this year as it did last year. Jimmer = floor spreading/shooting, not pick and roll guard, although I do understand it could help him long term. Chuck Hayes = other teams best offensive big stopper/pick and roll defender, not backup center boxing out role playing/rebounding 7 footers. These guys make millions of dollars and can't see this? Petrie says he can and says all the right things but this is really close to McHale level where he's going to have to come down off the mountain and coach the team he's put together.

I know what you're saying about PG's, Tyreke just isn't a pick and roll guard, which pretty much defines the PG position in the NBA. He did show some improvement though. With that said, you can also be a really good offensive team and not have to rely on the pick and roll as your main weapon. Lakers, Bulls, Pistons, and so on have all won rings and didn't rely on it hardly at all. I think Tyreke can improve as a PG and I still think with a Cousins and now a Robinson (don't sleep on this kids court vision people!) you should have more than enough playmaking ability.