CBSSports.com: Blue Jays should sell

polo007 · Post #1 » by **polo007** » Mon Jul 2, 2012 9:50 pm

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/danny ... ding-chips

The Blue Jays are just one game worse off than the Rays. While they're 8 1/2 games behind the first-place Yankees, they're just 2 1/2 games behind the wobbly Orioles, who still are (barely) holding onto the second wild-card spot in the American League.

The standings say that the Blue Jays still have a chance.

Two rival scouts who have seen them play recently disagree, and think that general manager Alex Anthopoulos should concentrate his energy this month on selling off some players who could have value on the July market.

"They're not going to win starting Aaron Laffey and Carlos Villanueva and Brett Cecil," one of the scouts said Monday, mentioning three-fifths of the Jays' current injury-hit starting rotation.

That scout suggested that the Blue Jays should consider moving Casey Janssen, who is 9 for 9 in save opportunities and has a 1.33 ERA since taking over as closer.

Another rival official said that the Jays are souring on shortstop Yunel Escobar, and suggested that he could be on the move to make room for Adeiny Hechevarria. The original plan had been for Escobar to eventually shift to second base, but the thinking now is that the Blue Jays could prefer to move him to another team, instead.

There has already been plenty of speculation that the Blue Jays would deal Edwin Encarnacion, who would generate interest in a July market that is short on quality hitters.

If not for the injury to top prospect Travis d'Arnaud, the Blue Jays would have also been likely to move a catcher this month. d'Arnaud was tearing up the Triple-A Pacific Coast League before he tore a ligament in his knee last week.

baulderdash77 · Post #2 » by **baulderdash77** » Mon Jul 2, 2012 10:22 pm

Last year on this date the Jays were 40-44. This year they're 40-39. Their run differential went from -2 to +29. Attendance is up 33% to date (20,511 to 27,285 as of July 2nd). This team has major upwards momentum and selling would set them back too much.

Morrow will be back in 3 or 4 weeks. Laffey, Cecil & Villanueva are going to hold their own in that time. If anything we should be buying. Get a major pitching piece to keep us ahead and then when Morrow gets back he will put us over the top.

Kaizen · Post #3 » by **Kaizen** » Mon Jul 2, 2012 10:43 pm

Perkins made a good point that top pitchers that have been traded lately have been a disaster for their new teams. Why would anyone want to trade for Felix when the stats bear out that he is getting worse and worse? You would then say that we should go to the next tier but then who is out there that can be the next Hammel? Do you trust AA to find that pitcher? I have to be honest and say I don't. His track record for pitchers has been pretty poor at the Major league level.

J-Roc · Post #4 » by **J-Roc** » Tue Jul 3, 2012 12:47 am

The unfortunate thing about cleaning house in baseball is it means you aren't competing for who knows how long.

dagger · Post #5 » by **dagger** » Tue Jul 3, 2012 1:06 am

CZAR85 wrote:Perkins made a good point that top pitchers that have been traded lately have been a disaster for their new teams.

You mean Gio Gonzales, don't you.

dagger · Post #6 » by **dagger** » Tue Jul 3, 2012 1:08 am

J-Roc wrote:The unfortunate thing about cleaning house in baseball is it means you aren't competing for who knows how long.

That's particularly true when the team won't spend money expanding the major league payroll significantly. Who takes EE's place at first? Lind, I guess (shoot me now, get it over with).

Kaizen · Post #7 » by **Kaizen** » Tue Jul 3, 2012 1:09 am

Say I am wrong. Don't ask a stupid sarcastic question.

Obviously he mentioned Jimenz and Pineda. I could not care less about any other team so just took his word for it. I think Latos is good too now that I think about it.

Post #8 » by **Schad** » Tue Jul 3, 2012 1:12 am

dagger wrote:
CZAR85 wrote:Perkins made a good point that top pitchers that have been traded lately have been a disaster for their new teams.

You mean Gio Gonzales, don't you.

Gio is looking much more like Gio of late; he's starting to elevate his pitches, which is resulting in more flyballs, and likely will spell the end of his unsustainably low HR rate. I wouldn't treat is as a given that he'll look like a major missed opportunity by the end of the year.

flatjacket1 · Post #9 » by **flatjacket1** » Tue Jul 3, 2012 1:29 am

I say sellers as well. People think being a seller at the deadline means you are losing talent, which is not true.

Last year we netted Colby as sellers. If we sell on Oliver, Perez, Rajai and such we will likely net another young, controllable player.

I think we should not even consider being buyers, but rather debate whether or not we should be sellers or just stay pat.

Prospects are great. All good players were good prospects at one point (or performed well enough to deserve a promotion). Let's not forget d'Arnaud is a top 5 prospect and a catcher at that. Do we really want 1.5 years of Garza for a cornerstone who had a better minor league track record than Lawrie (at an older age though mind you). In 2011 he was our organizations top power hitter according to BA in 2011?

Brinbe · Post #10 » by **Brinbe** » Tue Jul 3, 2012 1:54 am

This is a no f'n brainer. You only buy if you're in a real position to contend.

nonc · Post #11 » by **nonc** » Tue Jul 3, 2012 1:58 am

flatjacket1 wrote:I say sellers as well. People think being a seller at the deadline means you are losing talent, which is not true.

Last year we netted Colby as sellers. If we sell on Oliver, Perez, Rajai and such we will likely net another young, controllable player.

I think we should not even consider being buyers, but rather debate whether or not we should be sellers or just stay pat.

Prospects are great. All good players were good prospects at one point (or performed well enough to deserve a promotion). Let's not forget d'Arnaud is a top 5 prospect and a catcher at that. Do we really want 1.5 years of Garza for a cornerstone who had a better minor league track record than Lawrie (at an older age though mind you). In 2011 he was our organizations top power hitter according to BA in 2011?

Edwin should also be dealt (or extended), playing out the contract really serves no purpose to the Blue Jays.

flatjacket1 · Post #12 » by **flatjacket1** » Tue Jul 3, 2012 2:06 am

nonc wrote:Edwin should also be dealt (or extended), playing out the contract really serves no purpose to the Blue Jays.

I think our primary goal should be to extend Edwin, only trading him if it doesn't look like he will resign. I agree that long term Edwin doesn't do jack for the Jays if we don't either extend or deal.

Blue Jays have a history of being confident extending 1 year wonders (Bautista) so I think Edwin will sign a similar contract if he finishes the year the way he started it. 5 years 50-60M. Who knows we might get him for less... We got Escobar for a crazy low price so in AA we trust ahah.

tecumseh18 · Post #13 » by **tecumseh18** » Tue Jul 3, 2012 2:36 am

I dunno, I think this "Laffey, Alvarez and pray for rain" rotation has playoff-calibre team written all over it.

If possible, would it be a good idea to sell Bautista for, say, two prime young ML-ready SPs? And how long would they last before their arms blew out and we were left with nothing to show for at least a year or two?

Kurtz · Post #14 » by **Kurtz** » Tue Jul 3, 2012 5:41 am

flatjacket1 wrote:I say sellers as well. People think being a seller at the deadline means you are losing talent, which is not true.

Last year we netted Colby as sellers. If we sell on Oliver, Perez, Rajai and such we will likely net another young, controllable player.

Hmm. We traded a couple of young pitchers for a young CF. That wasn't us being sellers in a typical sense, it was more of a straight baseball deal that turned out to be a win-win.

If by sellers you suggest that we trade Edwin for someone who can be a valuable contributor next year, then sure, why not. But if by seller we're talking about getting prospects who aren't ready to advance to the majors for another 2 years, and then won't start hitting their primes until 5 years after the deal...no thanks.

Graham's Cracker · Post #15 » by **Graham's Cracker** » Tue Jul 3, 2012 12:28 pm

I don't know why we'd deal Janssen. His contract is affordable with a team option through 2014. We'll need his stability when we do get Santos back next season. I certainly don't want us shoring up the bullpen with the likes of Pauley Coello and Cordero. Bullpen needs to be a strength next year, they have cost us way too many games this year.

Hamyltowne · Post #16 » by **Hamyltowne** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 12:42 am

Anyone catch Ken Rosenthal's trade-Rasmus idea today on MLB Network?

nonc · Post #17 » by **nonc** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 1:06 am

Hamyltowne wrote:Anyone catch Ken Rosenthal's trade-Rasmus idea today on MLB Network?

nope, was it as dumb as i'm imaging it would be?

Hamyltowne · Post #18 » by **Hamyltowne** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 1:15 am

nonc wrote:
Hamyltowne wrote:Anyone catch Ken Rosenthal's trade-Rasmus idea today on MLB Network?

nope, was it as dumb as i'm imaging it would be?

Ha! Depends on your imagination, but probably.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=22799325&c_id=mlb

It begins at the 1:02 mark.

tecumseh18 · Post #19 » by **tecumseh18** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 2:21 am

His point is that we have Gose and Marisnick bubbling up from below, and obvious needs at SP, so why not move Rasmus? Of course it makes sense from the outsider perspective. Rosenthal's no idiot.

But seeing Colby gradually rebuilt into the player he was projected to be - and proving LaRussa and the impatient idiots wrong - has been a thoroughly satisfying experience. With Rasmus being still so young and controllable, I'd rather sell the potential of Gose or Marisnick to another team.

Hamyltowne · Post #20 » by **Hamyltowne** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 3:31 am

tecumseh18 wrote:His point is that we have Gose and Marisnick bubbling up from below, and obvious needs at SP, so why not move Rasmus? Of course it makes sense from the outsider perspective. Rosenthal's no idiot.

I know he's no dummy, but pretending Gose's future projects anywhere near the level of Rasmus is just plain irresponsible. And Marisnick is still in A ball.