Roy Hibbert - Indy says they will match/offer same terms.

[GreenRiddler]

I must say I go back and forth on potentially signing Hibbert. Frankly I think this contract has potential to come back to bite us if we get Hibbert and for that reason a part of me is almost hoping Indy matches. You guys seem a bit too overhyped over a guy who is probably gonna put up 15/10 at the absolute most. I understand that he can do more than that, but there's a good shot that we come away regretting giving him the max (or Indy if they go that route). I'd be ok with the max, but in all honesty I think Hibbert is tremendously overhyped by many here. He'll be an above average center which I suppose is nice but I think we could do just as well as a team if we spent our money elsewhere. I'd be OK if Hibbert signs here, but it won't make or break the off season in my book. Hibbert would have to do a lot more to earn a max contract imo.

Dude you need to check your self. Where else could we spend this money? If we could of we would have. Are you seriously going to down play getting arguably the third best center in the League? If that is not a good off-season I don't know what is, what happened in 2010 to Miami doesn't happen too often...lets compare Hibbert with another top 3 center Marc Gasol who is gonna have a slightly higher contract if we sign Hibbert to his.

PER/TS%/eFG%/TRB%/AST%/BLK%/USG%/WS48

Hibbert----19.3PER/.539TS%/.497eFG%/16.6TRB%/9.9AST%/5.2BLK%/21.1USG%/.154WS48

Gasol-------18.4PER/.541TS%/.483eFG%/14.3TRB%/14.1AST%/4.1BLK%/19.2USG%/.166WS48



Feel free to check for yourself. Stats are based on this 2011-2012 season Marc Gasol is 27 Hibbert is 25. Beggars can't be choosers bud. Also feel free to take a look at Playoff advanced stats it is even more impressive since the playoffs is when Big men like Hibbert usually kick it up a notch, Imagine how much easier it would be for Aldridge, or if Aldridge was on that Indy team during the Mia series instead of David West....me thinks Mia wouldn't have won.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=hibbero01&y1=2012&p2=gasolma01&y2=2012

[DaVoiceMaster]

When is the last time Portland had a center who averaged 15/10?

Hibbert 15/10
Aldridge 22/8
Batum 18/5
Matthews 15/4
Lillard 10/6 (assists)

That's 80 points from your starters. I probably need to shave a few points off to be realistic, but am I that far off? Hibbert at 15/10 is terrific for this team and like the others said, the team defense would improve, as well.

[GreenRiddler]

When is the last time Portland had a center who averaged 15/10?

Hibbert 15/10
Aldridge 22/8
Batum 18/5
Matthews 15/4
Lillard 10/6 (assists)

That's 80 points from your starters. I probably need to shave a few points off to be realistic, but am I that far off? Hibbert at 15/10 is terrific for this team and like the others said, the team defense would improve, as well.

I would have said;
Hibbert 15/10
Aldridge 23/8
Batum 17/5
Matthews 13/3
Lillard 14/5.5 (assists)

Which make it 82 lol I have high hopes for Dame.

[PTPaQ]

Hibberts per 36 is great, problem is he barely plays 30 minutes a game, doesnt look like he can go any more than that and is only 25 years old. It also means no more cap space for the foreseeable future, and we are relying on Damian Lillard to be our only ball handler/creator, and right now he is promising but still unsure. Basically just ask yourself if your willing to bet on us in the next 3 yrs with Lillard, Wes, Nic, LA and Hibbert as our lineup.

[mojomarc]

When is the last time Portland had a center who averaged 15/10?

Hibbert 15/10
Aldridge 22/8
Batum 18/5
Matthews 15/4
Lillard 10/6 (assists)

That's 80 points from your starters. I probably need to shave a few points off to be realistic, but am I that far off? Hibbert at 15/10 is terrific for this team and like the others said, the team defense would improve, as well.

I think these are aggressive numbers for Batum unless we greatly increase the pace and he gets opportunities in the open court. I'm thinking he will become more efficient, more versatile, but still around 14ppg next year. After all, you'll have to pound the ball down low a lot still with LMA and Hibbert.

And I think the last 15/10 center we had was Sabonis' third year in 97-98. That's 15 seasons ago, folks. That's why players like Hibbert command max offers.

[Billy]

Obviously Portland is putting all of their eggs in one basket with Lillard... but honestly I am okay with that. If he's the right pick Portland needs to know within the next couple of years, and the only way to do that is to sink or swim with him at the point.

I do think that Portland will need to find another scorer in the lineup--likely to replace Wes. Perhaps Elliot Williams is that guy, but it will be hard to know until he can actually stay healthy. All of that said, I think it's much easier to find a 15-20 ppg scorer than it is a 15/10 center. Obviously finding those scoring types are still tough, but Hibbert could provide a lot of potential for this team. Right now there is a lot of hope riding on Lillard being able to come out and average 13-15 points out the gate, and to be someone that can knock down a lot of shots in pick and rolls.

[sabi]

Hibberts per 36 is great, problem is he barely plays 30 minutes a game, doesnt look like he can go any more than that and is only 25 years old. It also means no more cap space for the foreseeable future, and we are relying on Damian Lillard to be our only ball handler/creator, and right now he is promising but still unsure. Basically just ask yourself if your willing to bet on us in the next 3 yrs with Lillard, Wes, Nic, LA and Hibbert as our lineup.

Billups World give us another ball handler and closer. He would be a great addition. A team like that is easily a 55 + win team after lillards rookie year and continued improvement of our other players.

[BlazersRizing]

getting Hibbert basically gives the Blazers Oden back in a weird way. similiar production to what Oden would give if he could stay on the court...

[DaVoiceMaster]

I gotta think Billups will stay with the Clippers. Mojo, I'm hoping with a new coach and a new offense, Batum will get a little more involved and not just hang out on the perimeter. I think he should be able to do score 15 points consistently and hopefully a little more. Let's split the difference (16 points for Batum), hahahaha.

[mojomarc]

I do think that Portland will need to find another scorer in the lineup--likely to replace Wes. Perhaps Will Barton is is that guy, but it will be hard to know until he can actually get on the court.

Fixed. I don't know why, but I just don't have faith in EWill ever becoming a good starter. Barton, on the other hand, reminds me so much of a young Tayshaun Prince, only Barton had significantly better stats as a sophomore than Prince had as a senior at UK. Barton averaged more points, better shooting percentage, better three point percentage, more rebounds, better free throw percentage, more assists, and more steals. Prince, at 6'9", was a better shot blocker (no surprise there) but that is pretty much it. I think Barton has a shot at replacing Wes' numbers, but with more versatility to his game and a lot better secondary SG stats such as rebounding. The question is how strong he is at 175lbs, but Prince seemed to be able to hold his own well against SFs at 190, and of course Reggie Miller was an all-time great as a very think player, so I'm not super concerned with this. After all, the odds of him being about to put on about 10lbs more pounds, which puts him into an area where I think the risk is a lot less, is pretty good since he's still so young.

[mojomarc]

Mojo, I'm hoping with a new coach and a new offense, Batum will get a little more involved and not just hang out on the perimeter. I think he should be able to do score 15 points consistently and hopefully a little more. Let's split the difference (16 points for Batum), hahahaha.

Sounds good. After all, I think any coach we bring in won't be worse than Nate about knowing how to get a SF consistently involved in the offense. And of course if we push the pace to look for transition opportunities off rebounds (and pull back for the low post game if it's not there) will give Batum a lot more opportunities.

[crazylegshayes]

Mojo, I'm hoping with a new coach and a new offense, Batum will get a little more involved and not just hang out on the perimeter. I think he should be able to do score 15 points consistently and hopefully a little more. Let's split the difference (16 points for Batum), hahahaha.

Sounds good. After all, I think any coach we bring in won't be worse than Nate about knowing how to get a SF consistently involved in the offense. And of course if we push the pace to look for transition opportunities off rebounds (and pull back for the low post game if it's not there) will give Batum a lot more opportunities.

I'm glad Nate is gone just as much as the next guy, but come on. He did ok getting Rashard Lewis involved in Seattle... to the tune of a 100 million dollar contract. Perhaps Batum just isn't that good, or isn't that aggressive, or likes playing second, third, or fourth fiddle.

Nate is a good basketball coach, let's leave it at that.

[PDXKnight]

I got quite a few responses but to answer them in a nutshell, I don't think you guys took the right thing from my post. I was mainly attempting to bring some form of subjectivity to the argument considering that it seems about 95 percent of you are gung ho sold on Hibbert. Would I like him? Yes. Are there other bigs who cost less and produce equal or more? Yes. (Gortat, Horford, ALDRIDGE, Garnett, Noah,Chandler, Faried, Monroe, Bogut, Lee, Griffin, Marc Gasol, Pekovich?, Cousins, Tim Duncan (likely going to make less), Ibaka, Favors?, Nene)

I think its ridiculous that most didn't want Okafor's contract but here many of you act as if this contract offer is out of this world. Again I wouldn't mind him on the team but I think if we signed someone like Humphries and either kept the cap space for future seasons or trades, we'd be all the better off for waiting. If you look earlier in the thread I mentioned how good Hibbert can be, I just am wondering what we might be able to do with the cap space otherwise. It certainly never hurts to have a bit of room to maneuver. Also if you recall, KP used to talk about keeping toxic contracts off the books and frankly I think there are better ways to deal with our talent situation other than offering a player who is riding off a playoff high a premium rate. Now I'm not saying it'd be a bad signing but I think its money that may be better spent.

[sabi]

Hilbert >>>> Humphries and some other Mle guy

[Wizenheimer]

I do think that Portland will need to find another scorer in the lineup--likely to replace Wes. Perhaps Will Barton is is that guy, but it will be hard to know until he can actually get on the court.

Fixed. I don't know why, but I just don't have faith in EWill ever becoming a good starter. Barton, on the other hand, reminds me so much of a young Tayshaun Prince, only Barton had significantly better stats as a sophomore than Prince had as a senior at UK. Barton averaged more points, better shooting percentage, better three point percentage, more rebounds, better free throw percentage, more assists, and more steals. Prince, at 6'9", was a better shot blocker (no surprise there) but that is pretty much it. I think Barton has a shot at replacing Wes' numbers, but with more versatility to his game and a lot better secondary SG stats such as rebounding. The question is how strong he is at 175lbs, but Prince seemed to be able to hold his own well against SFs at 190, and of course Reggie Miller was an all-time great as a very think player, so I'm not super concerned with this. After all, the odds of him being about to put on about 10lbs more pounds, which puts him into an area where I think the risk is a lot less, is pretty good since he's still so young.

wow...you are definitely high on Barton, which is charging way out to the end of the limb for a 40th selection in the draft

first off, I agree about Williams. Counting on him for anything significant seems to be pouring a lot of hope into a leaky vessel

but back to Barton, I have not seen him play. His thin-ness doesn't worry me. Portland didn't draft him as a linebacker

What would concern me, if I was counting on him for much, is his floor speed. Meyers Leonard's time in the agility drill was 11.34 seconds. Barton's was 12.50. Leonard's time in the 3/4 sprint was 3.41. Barton's was 3.60

Now, we know Leonard is mobile and agile, but those are not real extraordinary times. Good but not great.

When a 7'1 C is beating a SG by more then a second in an agility drill it may be a sign of things for the SG

As a matter of fact, I just went through the times of all 60 players drafted, and there was only 1 player, Sullinger, who was slower then Barton. And only 4 players even had a time that wasn't below 12 seconds

maybe Barton had a bad day. Or maybe he's just slow and that's why he dropped out of the first round. I'm not saying those times are critical. Maybe Barton is crafty-slow. But I think they are a definite caution sign

[PDXKnight]

Hilbert >>>> Humphries and some other Mle guy

Except its not some MLE, its that extra amount of money plus whatever else we'd have. There is an incredible amount of flexibility come trade deadline time when you have cap space and I don't think that should be understated here. Frankly I think centers are becoming a lot more common in today's game and I think while centers will always be 'expensive' their price might go down somewhat in the next few years as more guys reach free agency.

[Billy]

Hilbert >>>> Humphries and some other Mle guy

Except its not some MLE, its that extra amount of money plus whatever else we'd have. There is an incredible amount of flexibility come trade deadline time when you have cap space and I don't think that should be understated here.

It's true, that cap space is gone. But what makes it difficult is anticipating something as good or better than Hibbert coming along--and then actually acquiring them for that space. While getting Hibbert eats up cash, Portland didn't have to give up any players to get him.

[PDXKnight]

Hilbert >>>> Humphries and some other Mle guy

Except its not some MLE, its that extra amount of money plus whatever else we'd have. There is an incredible amount of flexibility come trade deadline time when you have cap space and I don't think that should be understated here.

It's true, that cap space is gone. But what makes it difficult is anticipating something as good or better than Hibbert coming along--and then actually acquiring them for that space. While getting Hibbert eats up cash, Portland didn't have to give up any players to get him.

I agree to some extent, but I think its a bit overboard for some to call this signing phenomenal if it happens. He fills a need so from that standpoint it makes sense, but we definitely overpaid by about 3 million per season at least.

[mojomarc]

Mojo, I'm hoping with a new coach and a new offense, Batum will get a little more involved and not just hang out on the perimeter. I think he should be able to do score 15 points consistently and hopefully a little more. Let's split the difference (16 points for Batum), hahahaha.

Sounds good. After all, I think any coach we bring in won't be worse than Nate about knowing how to get a SF consistently involved in the offense. And of course if we push the pace to look for transition opportunities off rebounds (and pull back for the low post game if it's not there) will give Batum a lot more opportunities.

I'm glad Nate is gone just as much as the next guy, but come on. He did ok getting Rashard Lewis involved in Seattle... to the tune of a 100 million dollar contract. Perhaps Batum just isn't that good, or isn't that aggressive, or likes playing second, third, or fourth fiddle.

Nate is a good basketball coach, let's leave it at that.

Actually, he didn't. Rashard played two more years in Seattle after Nate went to Portland. Those happened to be his two best seasons of his career. His next best season in Seattle was the first year with Nate, but the middle years were disappointing to the point that Seattle fans were calling for Nate to be fired. There's a lot of revisionist history about Nate's tenure in Seattle, but the Seattle fans were calling for his head until halfway through 2004-05, and only after the very improbably playoff run (if you are winning because Jerome James putting up double doubles, you are by definition dealing with tiny probabilities) did there seem to be Obama-levels of approval. What caused the revisionism among Seattle fans, though, was not so much that anyone thought he was even a good coach but that he was Mr. Sonic as a player and he went to the hated Blazers. The Sonics fans thought of Portland a lot like Portland fans think of the Lakers. So in the course of about six months it went from "we want Nate fired" to "we wouldn't mind him for one more season to see if what he gave us in 2004-05 was a fluke" to "OMG--he's going to coach our rival? But he's our guy and we love him!" They conveniently forgot that he was a champion of inconsistency and mediocrity.

My feelings on how he coached in Portland (and my initial "really? He's a "great" coach Paul Allen? On what planet?" reaction to Nate coming to Portland) are well known on this board. I really wanted him to be better than he was, but what I saw was a coach that had a very limited offensive gameplan, little to no ability to make adjustments, and zero defensive gameplan. Either that, or he had zero control over his players' ability to follow the gameplan since it never seemed to change yet he always blamed the players for inability to execute. And yet somehow Nate continues to have a reputation as a good coach. I honestly don't get how he's rated any higher than Mike Brown was in Cleveland (which is not very high at all).

[Brandon-Clyde]

I got quite a few responses but to answer them in a nutshell, I don't think you guys took the right thing from my post. I was mainly attempting to bring some form of subjectivity to the argument considering that it seems about 95 percent of you are gung ho sold on Hibbert. Would I like him? Yes. Are there other bigs who cost less and produce equal or more? Yes. (Gortat, Horford, ALDRIDGE, Garnett, Noah,Chandler, Faried, Monroe, Bogut, Lee, Griffin, Marc Gasol, Pekovich?, Cousins, Tim Duncan (likely going to make less), Ibaka, Favors?, Nene)

I think its ridiculous that most didn't want Okafor's contract but here many of you act as if this contract offer is out of this world. Again I wouldn't mind him on the team but I think if we signed someone like Humphries and either kept the cap space for future seasons or trades, we'd be all the better off for waiting. If you look earlier in the thread I mentioned how good Hibbert can be, I just am wondering what we might be able to do with the cap space otherwise. It certainly never hurts to have a bit of room to maneuver. Also if you recall, KP used to talk about keeping toxic contracts off the books and frankly I think there are better ways to deal with our talent situation other than offering a player who is riding off a playoff high a premium rate. Now I'm not saying it'd be a bad signing but I think its money that may be better spent.

There is at least one huge difference between Okafor and Hibbert. Okafor has been in a serious decline in production and health while Hibbert is improving. Another difference is Hibbert is 4 inches taller than Okafor