Kevin Johnson vs. Steve Nash

[bigg mike]

Curious, who means more the Phoenix Suns fans?

And who do you think is the better PG?

Just a look at some stats & accolades to refresh your memories:

Nash career:
14.5 ppg
8.6 apg
.7 spg
3rpg

2x NBA MVP
7x All Star
3x All NBA 1st
2x All NBA 2nd
2x All NBA 3rd

Best year (IMO): 2006-07: 18.6 ppg, 11.6 apg, 3.5 rpg, .8 spg, 3.8 TO's

KJ:
17.9 ppg
9.1 apg
1.5 spg
3.3 rpg

1989 Most Improved Player
3x All Star
4x All NBA 2nd Team
1x All NBA 3rd Team

Best year (IMO): 89-90: 22.5 ppg, 11.4 apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.3 spg, 3.6 TO's

KJ beats Nash in every category statistically speaking and even took the Suns to the Finals against MJ & the Bulls in 93. Also had a legendary dunk on Hakeem back in the day.

So who means more to the Suns franchise and who would you rather have in their prime playing for you today?

[Calvin Klein]

KJ beats Nash in every category statistically speaking and even took the Suns to the Finals against MJ & the Bulls in 93. Also had a legendary dunk on Hakeem back in the day.

That is not the best way to phrase it. I would say Barkley (THE LEAGUE MVP) took the Suns to the Finals.

[Scubetrolis]

Ill take either one.

[DirtyDez]

Peak KJ > Peak Nash

To the fans Nash means more. Unfortunately for KJ his hamstrings were made of foam.

[hsraffety]

In terms of sustained success, Nash. In terms of getting to the promised land, the finals, KJ. If we'd gotten to a finals with Nash, he'd be my all around guy.

[Kerrsed]

KJ all the way. He is my favorite Sun of all time.

[phx#7]

KJ is my favorite player of all time, but Nash is/was the better player.

[TheMoochinator]

It's extremely hard to compare them when you consider the how different the game was when they played.

KJ dealt with handchecking, harder fouls, and no defensive 3-seconds.

Nash dealt with severely advanced defensive schemes and scouting, zone defense, as well as a slower paced game.

Arguments can be made for both.

[WTFsunsFTW]

My favorite 3 players ever are KJ, Nash, and Magic. Their rankings depend on my mood at the time.

[TASTIC]

I think if you put KJ in today's league he'd do 25 and 12 with no hand checking. Dude was LIGHTNING quick and that mid range jumper was money. Think Derrick Rose but better conscience in terms of hoisting shots

Nash though, man I love that guy. I told my wife, I may cry a little when he leaves the Suns...will be like losing a family member. No other player in any sport has surprised me so much and made me go 'wow that guy is amazing', which is quite crazy considering I've never seen him dunk or made any spectacular blocks etc or the usual 'wow' factors of athleticism and hops etc.

So to answer the question...I can't...

[Calvin Klein]

I think if you put KJ in today's league he'd do 25 and 12 with no hand checking. Dude was LIGHTNING quick and that mid range jumper was money. Think Derrick Rose but better conscience in terms of hoisting shots

Nash though, man I love that guy. I told my wife, I may cry a little when he leaves the Suns...will be like losing a family member. No other player in any sport has surprised me so much and made me go 'wow that guy is amazing', which is quite crazy considering I've never seen him dunk or made any spectacular blocks etc or the usual 'wow' factors of athleticism and hops etc.

So to answer the question...I can't...

true.


I'll take Nash though.

Again, the 93 finals argument to me is invalid. KJ was playing with the league MVP in Charles Barkley. Barkley was HUGE specially during the playoffs. 26.6 /13.6/4.3.
Nash is responsible for making every Suns team since 05 work.

[GrantHill]

Nash though, man I love that guy. I told my wife, I may cry a little when he leaves the Suns...will be like losing a family member.

Strong words, those are exactly my feelings.

[cmw17]

No contest. Nash easily. He means much more to the team, he ran the whole show. without KJ, Suns would have still been a pretty good team. without Nash, Suns would be historically bad, as you will see very soon.

[Sun Scorched]

Two completely different styles.

I've said this before, but KJ was the prototype combo guard. The scoring insticts of a great SG combined with the passing and leadership ability of a great PG. Truly unique.

Nash is one of the greatest shooters in the history of the NBA. He is also one of the greatest passers in NBA history - I mean, think about that. In NBA history.

Also, because of these two, the Suns had the greatest (in terms of career) PG rotation in the history of basketball at one point - Kevin Johnson, Steve Nash & Jason Kidd. Damn.

[YFZblu]

I think even Suns fans underrate prime Nash's scoring ability - It was no surprise if he dropped 30, and once scored 48 points in a playoff game.

[bwgood77]

No contest. Nash easily. He means much more to the team, he ran the whole show. without KJ, Suns would have still been a pretty good team. without Nash, Suns would be historically bad, as you will see very soon.

You are so wrong. We went to the WCF twice with KJ before Barkley even arrived. The year before we traded Nance for KJ, we won like 28 games.

As for the original question, KJ was better in his prime, which was early in his career....Nash was obviously better later in his career.

Some may argue that Nash was better in prime by saying he won mvps, but he never would have won any if he was playing in the Jordan and Magic era.

On February 28, 1988, Johnson (along with his teammates Mark West and Tyrone Corbin) was traded to the Phoenix Suns in exchange for the forward Larry Nance, Mike Sanders and a future draft pick. Phoenix also received a draft pick in the trade – one that was used the next season to select the future stalwart swingman Dan Majerle. Adjusting rapidly to the change of scenery and much-increased playing time, Johnson excelled and the league named him the NBA Rookie of the Month for April 1988, when he averaged 15.1 points, 10.6 assists, 5.6 rebounds, and an 86.4 free-throw percentage.

The next year in his first full season with Phoenix, Johnson blossomed into one of the game's elite players, averaging 20.4 points, 12.2 assists, a 50.5% field goal percentage, and an 88.2% free throw percentage to win the NBA's Most Improved Player Award. Indeed, Johnson joined Magic Johnson and Isiah Thomas as the only players in NBA history to average at least 20.0 points and 12.0 assists in a season, a fact that holds to this day. The 1988–89 campaign, in which the perennially losing Suns reversed their fortunes and rocketed from 28 wins to 55 (second-most in the West), constituted the first of three straight seasons in which Johnson averaged at least 20 points and 10 assists, joining Oscar Robertson and Isiah Thomas as the only players in league history to accomplish that feat for three consecutive seasons. From 1989 to 1991 he received berths on the All-NBA Second Team, earning Third Team honors in 1992 and Second Team honors again in 1994. Johnson also was selected to the NBA All-Star Team in 1990, 1991, and 1994 and made the playoffs every year of his career after his rookie season. In the 1991 NBA All-Star Game in Charlotte, Johnson wore no. 41 instead of his familiar #7. NBC announcers Bob Costas and Mike Fratello speculated it was to honor teammate Mark West, who was not picked to participate in the 40th All-Star Game, despite his valuable contributions on the boards and in the trenches for the Suns on a nightly basis.

Kevin Johnson started the 1991 All-Star Game alongside Magic Johnson in the Western Conference back-court and in anticipation of the game, the Sporting News asked whether Kevin Johnson may have surpassed Magic as the best player on the court. The previous spring in the 1990 Western Conference Semifinals, Kevin Johnson led the Suns past Magic's league-best, 63-win Lakers by a tally of four games to one, winning twice in Los Angeles. While Magic (the NBA's MVP for the third time in four years) averaged 43.0 points and 8.5 assists in the last two games of the series in a desperate attempt to salvage the Lakers' season (actually scoring 43 points in both contests), Johnson responded by averaging 33.5 points and 12.0 assists as the Suns won both games. In the fourth quarter of Game Five at the Great Western Forum, with the Lakers staring at their earliest playoff exit in nine years, Magic scored 7 points (3-5 FG, 1-2 FT) with 2 assists, 3 turnovers, and 0 steals, while Kevin Johnson poured in 14 points (5-8 FG, 4-4 FT) with 3 assists, 0 turnovers, and 2 steals. With 3:55 remaining, the Lakers still led 95-90, but from that point forward, Johnson scored 8 points (2-2 FG, 4-4 FT) with 1 assist, no turnovers, and 1 steal, while Magic mustered zero points (0-2 FG [including an air ball], 0-1 FT), 0 assists, 0 steals, and 1 turnover).

"Kevin Johnson, who, who really came to the top of this league in the 1990 playoffs when he waxed Magic Johnson and the Lakers in the early rounds. Kevin Johnson—and the Suns—taking care of business in 1990, four to one over the Lakers ... Kevin Johnson just totally outplaying Magic." Thus, for the only time in a season where Magic played at least 40 games, his Lakers failed to reach the Western Conference Finals, while Johnson's Suns advanced to the Western Conference Finals for the second consecutive season.

[cmw17]

The year before we traded Nance for KJ, we won like 28 games.

Nice try. but that's not really true. The year you are talking about when the Suns won 28 games? well KJ was actually on that Suns team for 28 games. He was traded in the middle of the season.

Now compare that with Nash's influence : In 2003-04 (year before Nash) , Suns were 29–53 and a whopping 62–20 the next season with Nash. That's 33 games better, and one of the biggest turnarounds in NBA HISTORY! They had THE best record in the NBA. The effect that he has had on the Suns is nothing short of Phenomenal.

Beyond the numbers, Nash completely revolutionized the Point Guard position. In a me-first generation with players like Marbury, Francis and Iverson, Nash brought back the focus on being a true point guard.

When you talk about Nash, you are talking about a player that may be the best passer in the history of basketball and the greatest shooter in history. You can't say that about anyone who has ever played this game. This is one of the reasons why Nash will easily be a first ballot hall of famer and KJ will never make it and is basically forgotten outside of Phoenix these days.

Also, no player in history has played at this kind of level at this advance age. Ever. While KJ totally broke down at just the age of 31. Nash doesn't rely on great athleticism to be great, it's his skill-set that sets him apart and still has him playing at an elite level at the age of 38. Another thing that makes him unbelievable.

Some may argue that Nash was better in prime by saying he won mvps, but he never would have won any if he was playing in the Jordan and Magic era.

Umm, Magic and Jordan weren't the only reasons why KJ never won an MVP. KJ was never even in the running. KJ never even made it to the All-NBA first team. Meanwhile Nash has 2 MVPs and should have had a 3rd in 2007 when he came in 2nd.

KJ was a very good player, Nash is a legend. there's a difference.

[bwgood77]

KJ was a rookie when we traded for him at the deadline and he didn't even start for awhile, so that record isn't very reflective. KJ as a rookie was far better than Nash was as a rookie. In years 2-4 KJ played at a very high level, better than Nash did.

Overall Nash's career trumps KJ because of longevity, but KJ was a better player at their peaks. The Barkley trade actually hurt KJ's game to some extent because Barkley was a bit of a ball stopper.

It's close, but in my opinion, I prefer KJ. When we were about to get ousted in a playoff series, he would score over 40 and drop 10 dimes. Nash did that once or twice maybe, but not like KJ.

The league was extremely watered own in the mid 2000s also when you compare it to 1988-1993.

As for 1st team all nba, or even 2nd team, it made it much tougher when he played during the same era as Magic and Stockton, arguably the two best pgs ever. But since the all nba teams just go by guards, you can also include Jordan in there as well as Isaih, Drexler and others.

[mybloodisorange]

I just want them to play together it could be back court 9000!

They are both great players but KJ's pure physical abilities allowed him to blow by people and steal the ball much better than Nash. And Kj was no slouch in the passing department either; sure he wasnt as creative as Nash but who is? The point is he drove well and knew how to dish off the drive as well as anyone. Nash I think has an overall higher skill level and IQ (not that KJs were bad) which is why he runs the pick and role like an orchestra conductor. Nashes biggest fault may be that sometimes he can be a bit too unselfish considering that he is also one of the best shooters of all time.

They are both amazing but defensively KJ wasnt as much as a liability, he dunked on Hakeem and took the Suns to the finals in 93.

[cmw17]

They are both amazing but defensively KJ wasnt as much as a liability, he dunked on Hakeem and took the Suns to the finals in 93.

He didn't take them to the finals, if anyone did, it was Barkley. KJ missed over 30 games that season. And one dunk is a not a good argument when comparing players' careers...