Asik Discussion. Pg 50 Sheridan: Bulls will match

[1rage]

In that 3rd year, he's a nice expiring contract that can be shipped off for another asset if necessary. Or he develops into a game changing force by then and we decide to just amnesty Boozer. Either way, we get him on a good deal for 2 years.

For the last time, guys, while a lot people hear "large expiring" they think it automatically has positive value, that simply is not the case. What has positive value is your team's willingness to take on unwanted salary, the large expiring simply makes it possible for your team to make use of its willingness to take on unwanted salary for assets. Asik at $15 mil in that third year will be an albatross, albeit a short albatross that teams looking to get rid of even worse committed money will send assets for.

Do you honestly think that the Bulls will be looking to take on even worse committed money for Asik in year three? Heck friggin no if we keep Noah and re-sign Taj. It will be $~45 mil tied up in three players ($~60m with Asik) even taking amnestying Boozer for granted, which I am not sure will even happen. It will be more like the Bulls will need to send some team with cap room assets just to take on Asik's short albatross. Yeah, for the Rockets, Asik may be useful in that third year as a large expiring to make use of their willingness to take on unwanted salary for assets, but not for the Bulls. The Bulls will be more likely looking to shed salary by then.

Look at the contracts of all the mid level to even lower tier centers that got deals or offers, they average about $14-$15 mill. and that's not in the final year which is often higher. Asik will be plenty valuable even at $15 mill per...perhaps just not to the Bulls depending on who is on the team by then. There are assets to be had that might match better with what the Bulls want/need at the time. Maybe Miami needs Asik more to battle Dwight in NJ and so we trade him and some other salary for Bosh. The value we received in 2 years at $5 mill with an expiring $15 mill is plenty worthy. Poison pill? That was swallowed with Boozer 2 years ago.

this is where I get lost too. I look at the past two years and Centers definitely came out at a premium, and judging from where this off-season is headed, it leads me to believe that height is going to continue to be at a very high premium.

[Bruteque]

Look at the contracts of all the mid level to even lower tier centers that got deals or offers, they average about $14-$15 mill. and that's not in the final year which is often higher. Asik will be plenty valuable even at $15 mill per...perhaps just not to the Bulls depending on who is on the team by then. There are assets to be had that might match better with what the Bulls want/need at the time. Maybe Miami needs Asik more to battle Dwight in NJ and so we trade him and some other salary for Bosh. The value we received in 2 years at $5 mill with an expiring $15 mill is plenty worthy. Poison pill? That was swallowed with Boozer 2 years ago.

Well yeah, when you believe that $15m a year for Asik is a fair deal on the open market and is a contract tradeable for Bosh, matching Asik is a no-brainer.

[AirP.]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I think so much of Asik that I'd like to keep him right now and immediately do something with one of the other long term contracts.

Not sure what, but I think Omer is plenty valuable.

I'm with you and hope to see his minutes greatly increased in the next season. I see the contract as 2 very good value contract years and one horrible contract year.

I also believe that if you're going to have a guy like Thib's as the coach, you have to keep enough good defensive bigs to make his team defense as effective as you can make it. To me, defensive bigs are huge for Thib's overall defense.

[Mech Engineer]

I think the biggest talked about problem but still not admitted is the issue of the second creator/ball handler/star next to Rose. It is talked about a lot but most of the scenarios involved too much risk like trading Deng for a draft pick and hoping that draft pick to become that star or hoping to clear in 2014/15 to get that star. Or hope for someone to pull a tantrum to be traded to the Bulls.

What Asik's signing does is give more assets or specifically makes the Bulls biggest trade asset in terms of value(especially after seeing what Asik is worth), a Noah trade possible. Deng might be the second best player on the team but SF is a pretty deep position in the league for teams to give up a big player.
Boozer ..no need to say anything. Taj is still not there yet in terms of value.

The only player who will get a big time player back is Noah. It might not be just Noah as the only piece but as the center piece. Asik's signing will give GarPax the leverage to do trades. Otherwise, they have to start looking for another Center in a trade or draft and hope that guy is as good as Noah or even Asik. The Bulls will have two years to find that deal whether it is Harden or Gordon or some new player who might get on the trade market.

[PistolP]

"It would be really tough to (match)," Kerr said Thursday on "The Waddle & Silvy Show" on ESPN 1000. "I love the guy. His tandem with Taj Gibson defensively, to me, is kind of the next best thing after Derrick Rose that this team has to offer. They're game-changers, those two together. So I'm sure what they're doing, what (John Paxson and Gar Forman) are doing, is they're brainstorming every scenario. What if we traded somebody else to allow us to keep Asik or if we let him go, who's available? What combinations can play to ensure we still have that defensive dynamic off the bench. I'm sure they're going over everything right now. They've been put in a really tough spot by Houston and that contract structure."

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bulls/post/_/id/9390/podcast-kerr-tough-to-match-asiks-offer

[Magilla_Gorilla]

"It would be really tough to (match)," Kerr said Thursday on "The Waddle & Silvy Show" on ESPN 1000. "I love the guy. His tandem with Taj Gibson defensively, to me, is kind of the next best thing after Derrick Rose that this team has to offer. They're game-changers, those two together. So I'm sure what they're doing, what (John Paxson and Gar Forman) are doing, is they're brainstorming every scenario. What if we traded somebody else to allow us to keep Asik or if we let him go, who's available? What combinations can play to ensure we still have that defensive dynamic off the bench. I'm sure they're going over everything right now. They've been put in a really tough spot by Houston and that contract structure."

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bulls/post/_/id/9390/podcast-kerr-tough-to-match-asiks-offer

It might be a difficult situation - but I don't really think it was unexpected. GarPax have I'm sure already gone through the scenarios - and at this point are looking to see what is available in the market.

Considering what marginal talent is going for - I expect them to keep their own.

[kyrv]

"It would be really tough to (match)," Kerr said Thursday on "The Waddle & Silvy Show" on ESPN 1000. "I love the guy. His tandem with Taj Gibson defensively, to me, is kind of the next best thing after Derrick Rose that this team has to offer. They're game-changers, those two together. So I'm sure what they're doing, what (John Paxson and Gar Forman) are doing, is they're brainstorming every scenario. What if we traded somebody else to allow us to keep Asik or if we let him go, who's available? What combinations can play to ensure we still have that defensive dynamic off the bench. I'm sure they're going over everything right now. They've been put in a really tough spot by Houston and that contract structure."

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bulls/post/_/id/9390/podcast-kerr-tough-to-match-asiks-offer

It might be a difficult situation - but I don't really think it was unexpected. GarPax have I'm sure already gone through the scenarios - and at this point are looking to see what is available in the market.

Considering what marginal talent is going for - I expect them to keep their own.

I think it's good that they could wait and see. After the lockout it was possible teams would not spend as much like idiots.

They are in a great position because they can keep Watson/Korver/Asik if they can't find competent replacements.

And someone brought this up last night, I find it hard to believe they thought there was no chance someone would pay 8 million per for a starting center. And they may have had, for x we match, for z we don't, and the amount is y, in the middle, so let's put it in the big picture and see.

But I'm definitely leaning towards they should keep Asik, and Kerr makes some very good points.

[WinCity]

"It would be really tough to (match)," Kerr said Thursday on "The Waddle & Silvy Show" on ESPN 1000. "I love the guy. His tandem with Taj Gibson defensively, to me, is kind of the next best thing after Derrick Rose that this team has to offer. They're game-changers, those two together. So I'm sure what they're doing, what (John Paxson and Gar Forman) are doing, is they're brainstorming every scenario. What if we traded somebody else to allow us to keep Asik or if we let him go, who's available? What combinations can play to ensure we still have that defensive dynamic off the bench. I'm sure they're going over everything right now. They've been put in a really tough spot by Houston and that contract structure."

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bulls/post/_/id/9390/podcast-kerr-tough-to-match-asiks-offer

Kind of sad but true. Omer and Taj might be our most impactful guys aside from Rose...wish we could do something about that...

[Magilla_Gorilla]

"It would be really tough to (match)," Kerr said Thursday on "The Waddle & Silvy Show" on ESPN 1000. "I love the guy. His tandem with Taj Gibson defensively, to me, is kind of the next best thing after Derrick Rose that this team has to offer. They're game-changers, those two together. So I'm sure what they're doing, what (John Paxson and Gar Forman) are doing, is they're brainstorming every scenario. What if we traded somebody else to allow us to keep Asik or if we let him go, who's available? What combinations can play to ensure we still have that defensive dynamic off the bench. I'm sure they're going over everything right now. They've been put in a really tough spot by Houston and that contract structure."

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bulls/post/_/id/9390/podcast-kerr-tough-to-match-asiks-offer

Kind of sad but true. Omer and Taj might be our most impactful guys aside from Rose...wish we could do something about that...

Wish I could get other people here to see it the way Kerr sees it.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

^^^^I see Kerr's first 7 words.

I agree wholeheartedly with that portion .

[Magilla_Gorilla]

^^^^I see Kerr's first 7 words.

I agree wholeheartedly with that portion .

I don't think its going to be easy - it is a lot of money. But I wish that people would understand that his value is beyond just that of a 'backup center'.

[DanTown8587]

^^^^I see Kerr's first 7 words.

I agree wholeheartedly with that portion .

I don't think its going to be easy - it is a lot of money. But I wish that people would understand that his value is beyond just that of a 'backup center'.

On most teams? Yes he's more than that. On this team, he's the teams second choice to play center. That's not really debatable.

[AAU Teammate]

^^^^I see Kerr's first 7 words.

I agree wholeheartedly with that portion .

Directly at you, let me ask this. When Taj and Omer come into that game defensively, do you just yawn through all that? Or do you sense that it's a pretty impressive force defensively?

I personally think option 1 is totally impossible for the non-blind, but that is my perspective and I am trying to get better at understanding how message boards make the not-opinion-based into something opinion-based. I am working at it.

[PistolP]

It might be a difficult situation - but I don't really think it was unexpected. GarPax have I'm sure already gone through the scenarios - and at this point are looking to see what is available in the market.

Considering what marginal talent is going for - I expect them to keep their own.

I agree that they've known all the scenarios for some time. What's difficult now is that they really have to put together a plan for the next 3 years, not just for next season. I'm just concerned when every keeps saying "oh it's ok, we'll figure something out by year 3" or "a huge expiring contract should be easy to trade." Regardless of a trade or no trade, we are still committing ourselves to a ton of salary in 3 years, for just a few duplicative positions and for non-star players (besides Rose). We are not just going to move Asik's expiring for cap space, it'll likely be for another team's over paid players if we even can. I just hope that if we match, we commit to paying up that one season, and don't let it influence decisions to either 1) not resign Taj, 2) low ball Luol in 2014, 3) cheap out in finding a long-term SG, or 4) trade Noah just to make space.

[PJ Brown]

^^^^I see Kerr's first 7 words.

I agree wholeheartedly with that portion .

I don't think its going to be easy - it is a lot of money. But I wish that people would understand that his value is beyond just that of a 'backup center'.

I'm still undecided on matching, but I agree with this and especially with how Kerr put it. Taj & Omer often change games, just come in and kick the living hell out of everybody, including during some pivotal playoff games. Boozer & Noah are also frequently injured. These guys are "backups," yes, but they are backups depended on in a special sort of way, and in some ways, one of the team's biggest advantages. Is that worth of $14 million year for Asik? Probably not. But's it's not something to take lightly.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

^^^^I see Kerr's first 7 words.

I agree wholeheartedly with that portion .

I don't think its going to be easy - it is a lot of money. But I wish that people would understand that his value is beyond just that of a 'backup center'.

On most teams? Yes he's more than that. On this team, he's the teams second choice to play center. That's not really debatable.

He's the second choice to start - and yet he is playing there in crunch time with Taj while Noah and Boozer ride the bench. That's why i expect the bulls to match - they're not going to find anyone remotely comparable on the FA market.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

^^^^I see Kerr's first 7 words.

I agree wholeheartedly with that portion .

I don't think its going to be easy - it is a lot of money. But I wish that people would understand that his value is beyond just that of a 'backup center'.

I like Asik......to an extent. When it comes down to paying him a contract that might force us to lose Taj & possibly trade Noah, I just feel he's not worth it.

Directly at you, let me ask this. When Taj and Omer come into that game defensively, do you just yawn through all that? Or do you sense that it's a pretty impressive force defensively?

I personally think option 1 is totally impossible for the non-blind, but that is my perspective and I am trying to get better at understanding how message boards make the not-opinion-based into something opinion-based. I am working at it.

I definitely acknowledge the beauty of the Asik/Taj combo.

I simply believe that Thibs is a defensive genius that can plug in another defensive center with Taj that would produce similar results. If we match Asik's offer, we handcuff ourselves when it's time to pay Taj (better overall player, IMO) & keep Noah (better overall player, IMO).

I don't believe keeping Asik over those guys is worth it, AAU.

[xpmar9x]

Go on take the money and run Omer.

We can't tie up that much money for a backup center who plays 14mpg. Now, if we have plans on Omer being out starter, and are looking to deal Noah.. then yes, keep him. But I seriously doubt we're looking to trade Noah. Let em walk, and pay Gibson.

[blumeany]

If Asik and Taj are anchoring this team, why are Noah and Boozer still on this roster? Wouldn't it make more sense to take that money and spend it on a real SG and an awesome bench? Seriously. Why are we paying players starter money if they are going to sit at the ends of games - ESPECIALLY in the playoffs?

[AAU Teammate]

I definitely acknowledge the beauty of the Asik/Taj combo.

I simply believe that Thibs is a defensive genius that can plug in another defensive center with Taj that would produce similar results. If we match Asik's offer, we handcuff ourselves when it's time to pay Taj (better overall player, IMO) & keep Noah (better overall player, IMO).

I don't believe keeping Asik over those guys is worth it, AAU.

Thibs has had a lot of teams under his control during his career. Have they all had similar results with all kinds of different personnel? No. The current Thibs defense is elite, and as much as I want to believe personnel doesn't matter so much, I'm fooling myself if I think it doesn't.

It's a defense oriented roster (a fact people here point out ad nauseum daily)...and it's an elite defense. Thibs has made some poor defensive players better in the past, I'm sure...but "similar results" means we're going to be an elite defense next year without Brewer and Asik. I personally think it's more of a challenge than some here think it will be.

Personnel matters.