WE DONT NEED DWIGHT

[Rollydog]

Who am i kiddin of course we need him, everybody does. Do I do the trade thats on the table, yeah probably. But have people thought, really thought about what we will be giving up?

Brook- maybe the best offensive center in the league, a guy who put up 19/9 in his second year and who could give us 22 or 23 this season.

Marshon- if he plays like he did to start his rookie season hes a potential 6th man of the year.

Hump, 14/11 guy who plays hard, and has vastly expanded his game.

In the deal we replace these 3 guys with Dwight. The trade leaves us with holes in our roster at PF and our bench and no immediate ways to remedy them except with scrubs like the Heat have done. We are taxpayers so we dont have much money to throw at guys. We have given up half of our picks for the next 3 years so we can't use those as trade bait. JJ and GW only have a couple strong years left. Who are we gonna replace them with?

Right now the team can be very good... If Teletovic is as he seems.. if Marshon thrives in the 6th man role... if JJ and Wallace don't decline... if Lopez lives up to the promise hes shown thus far in his career. 4 big ifs I know but all doable IMO and this team can compete for a championship. We're deep as hell, in every position. We've got guys that can shoot, guys who can drive, a top 5 low post player, 4 guys who can create shots for themselves and others, an elite point guard. Can you say that about any other team in the league?

I have a feeling we will get Dwight. I want it to happen. But the alternative is pretty damn good.

[drejeronfire]

I'd throw in Gerald Wallace and Joe Johnson along with those 3 guys if the contracts worked it meant the Nets were getting Dwight...

[vincecarter4pres]

Come on now... Brook is a very good young player, but these guys, especially and specifically the other two are nobodies and easily replaced.

I have thought what we'd really be giving up, 3 pieces from lottery team core.

[Rollydog]

For the team we have now, Hump is perfect. No doubt Ersan is better overall, and I would take him for sure, but with Lopez and Teletovic being your other frontcourt guys what you need is a hardnosed athletic interior player. Hump has a lot of problems, especially when he tries to do too much, which I think he felt the need to last season because he was our only good big. Nevertheless he averaged 14 ppg and 11 boards on 48% from the field. For the sake of comparison let me remind you all of another big we used to have who was similar to Hump in many ways... KMart in his best seasons with us did around 17/9 on 48% but had way more offensive talent around him makin it easier. No doubt Hump can give us 13/11 next year with good percentages. In 10-11 with Lopez there he was almost 53% from the field. So don't sleep on the Hump man, and especially not the 3.8 offensive rebounds which is Kevin Love territory. Kmart in his prime only gave us 2 a game.

[vincecarter4pres]

Please don't compare garbage ass Hump to prime Kenyon, entirely different players.

Hump is a bad defender, he's basketball dumb and he can't run a pick and roll to save his life.

His offensive efficiency is meh. That's about the only place he compares to Kenyon.

Hump is a perfect first big off a bench, on a smaller contract, maybe full MLE.

A team like this can in theory get away with him as your starter, but not if we're expecting to go any further then the 2nd round.

[Rollydog]

I didnt watch too many games last year but when I did I was impressed by his toughness, remember the block on Griffin? So maybe I'm not seeing him for the liability but the numbers look really good. According to the metrics they use on 82games.com he is our MVP over the past 2 years.

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112NJN.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1011/1011NJN.HTM

Every team needs role players, and he is a good one. Or maybe he's a scrub. Who was our second best player last year. On a team that was not the worst team in nba history.

Also who remembers Collins?? That dude was our starting center for 5 years.

[vincecarter4pres]

Jason Collins was just awful a majority of his career, it's such a joke he was a big minute rotation player as long as he was.

Twin was a great man post defender and boxout guy, but he should have been a 8th to 10th man getting situational minutes every game, never true consistent rotation minutes, let alone as a big minute starter for that long.

I went over the top calling him "garbage ass", but it's more reactionary to the slurping of a meh rotation player(I am not saying just you or really even you, just in general), because the truth is, although he's a solid role player, his deficiencies are wide and actually fail in the categories people think he excels in to mask Brook.

Hump is a great rebounder, but at the same time he's so basketball dumb and possibly personal stat obsessed(possibly), that he stat pads rebounds to the point he's pretty much intentionally stealing a couple a game from a guy like Lopez, pretty much quite literally.

His defense as an all around is borderline awful, at least when you're expecting him to be a starter, playing starters minutes, staying on the floor in long stretches.

He would be great as a 1st big off the bench who plays nothing more then, nothing less then 20 minutes per game, in shorter spurts where his blown coverages, awful switches, over zealous swiping for blocks and steals which result in fouls and open second looks of the player he was guarding or the one he left to go ham, where his offensive ineptitude would be masked because he's in there with different units with different looks.

But as a starter, where he's staying on the floor for long periods, where he can be keyed in on on both ends of the floor, he is not a good player. He's just a hustle guy who mainly unintentionally stat stuffs.

[Stone]

Who am i kiddin of course we need him, everybody does.

LOL


Whats the consensus of how many we win this season "as is" if healthy?....I would say a little over 500% . Good enough to make the playoffs. Considering we won 58 games in the last three seasons combined....I'll take it.......

[vincecarter4pres]

If we're healthy I expect a 48 to 52 win team with the current group and some other small depth adds for the bench.

With Dwight literally in place of Brook, Brooks, Hump or Ily?

I'd expect 56 to 64, would depend on Dwight's back though.

[enetric]

VC...you are all over this. Just ditto down the line.

Rolly...

I have been vocal in criticisms of Dwight. What I think people over look in his game. The comparisons to Shaq are simply awful in my opinion. But make no mistake, this package of players that I like?

I would give them up, throw you into the deal and probably give Hennigan a happy ending just to get this freakin deal done.

This is a NO brainer dont think twice trade. And I dont believe LA isnt thinking the same thing. I dont care what is being written. Orlando and Dwight have made such a mess over there that they have driven his price down to nothing. Thank your lucky stars that he wants us and that we have the bare minimum of slightly better than nothing.

[enetric]

If we're healthy I expect a 48 to 52 win team with the current group and some other small depth adds for the bench.

With Dwight literally in place of Brook, Brooks, Hump or Ily?

I'd expect 56 to 64, would depend on Dwight's back though.

I hate predicting year one win totals of a new group of players as an indicator of this player vs. that one. What I think you should be saying is...

Without Dwight I expect to make the playoffs..maybe win a game or two year one and I think we "could" do better if things fall together quicker than expected.

With Dwight I expect to win a round or two and I think we "could" do better if things fall together quicker than expected.

[PetroNet]

Who am i kiddin of course we need him, everybody does. Do I do the trade thats on the table, yeah probably. But have people thought, really thought about what we will be giving up?

Brook- maybe the best offensive center in the league, a guy who put up 19/9 in his second year and who could give us 22 or 23 this season.

Marshon- if he plays like he did to start his rookie season hes a potential 6th man of the year.

Hump, 14/11 guy who plays hard, and has vastly expanded his game.

In the deal we replace these 3 guys with Dwight. The trade leaves us with holes in our roster at PF and our bench and no immediate ways to remedy them except with scrubs like the Heat have done. We are taxpayers so we dont have much money to throw at guys. We have given up half of our picks for the next 3 years so we can't use those as trade bait. JJ and GW only have a couple strong years left. Who are we gonna replace them with?

Right now the team can be very good... If Teletovic is as he seems.. if Marshon thrives in the 6th man role... if JJ and Wallace don't decline... if Lopez lives up to the promise hes shown thus far in his career. 4 big ifs I know but all doable IMO and this team can compete for a championship. We're deep as hell, in every position. We've got guys that can shoot, guys who can drive, a top 5 low post player, 4 guys who can create shots for themselves and others, an elite point guard. Can you say that about any other team in the league?

I have a feeling we will get Dwight. I want it to happen. But the alternative is pretty damn good.

lopez is solid, but a 1 way player and avg rebounder

brooks is terrible.. a ball stopper who plays no defense. more liek 12th man of the year

humphries histles and is a great guy to have

but for howard? thats a steal.

[vincecarter4pres]

If we're healthy I expect a 48 to 52 win team with the current group and some other small depth adds for the bench.

With Dwight literally in place of Brook, Brooks, Hump or Ily?

I'd expect 56 to 64, would depend on Dwight's back though.

I hate predicting year one win totals of a new group of players as an indicator of this player vs. that one. What I think you should be saying is...

Without Dwight I expect to make the playoffs..maybe win a game or two year one and I think we "could" do better if things fall together quicker than expected.

With Dwight I expect to win a round or two and I think we "could" do better if things fall together quicker than expected.

Well without Dwight I expect a 2nd round team with HCA in the 1st round, which has a puncher's chance at the ECF's.

With Dwight I expect a top 3 team in the East as long as Dwight's back holds up this year and I expect at worst a hard fought 6 game loss on the road in the ECF's.

[Shaheen]

I don't fully agree but the man has a point.

Lopez is a better scorer than Dwight overall IMO. Honestly if Lopez learned how to rebound he would probably be the second best center in the NBA. Better than Bynum. I think his offense is that valuable.

Brooks is a great bench player. 6th man type guy.

And then Humphries is a double double machine.

Not to mention that we have to give up potential young players for 3 years!!

What tips the odds in favor of getting Dwight is his defense and this teams lack of it. Dwight would be the perfect asset to this team because we have absolutely no low post defense by anyone. Lebron would grill us inside and badly.

Having the best defender in the game adds a balance to this team that would be unmatched. But even without the trade I'm expect a 2nd-4th seed.

We'll see how it goes. I'm excited either way.

[Wonderllama]

Without Dwight, this team's ceiling is the second round and that's it.

Of course, that wouldn't be so terrible after years of sucking. But still

[Rollydog]

I'm thinkin Lopez can get back to where he was in 2009, he averaged 19/9. Of course now he has a PG, and playmakers like JJ. He was putting up 23 post all star break after Deron got here last year. 23/9 is doable next season. Ive got faith. But anyway, I was thinkin about breaking it down by rating. ESPN did something like this a while ago (maybe they still do and I like it)

10 is a superstar
9 solid all-star
8 is maybe borderline all-star or terrific role player
7 solid player
6 average
5 not in the rotation on a good team
4 total scrub

you rate each position and then the bench gets a cumulative rating

I think we could be
9 DW
8 JJ
8 GW
7 Hump
9 BL
and our bench gets a 7 if Marshon and Teletovic are good.

That is 48 points.

Compare that to the Heat.

They would be

7 Chalmers
9 Wade (going by his playoffs)
10
9 Bosh
7 (since Bosh plays center so much, but otherwise 6)
And the bench is a 6

that comes out to 48!

------
so everyone goes ok rating things that way is stupid. this is a superstar league and the stars dominate. If that was the case the heat would have won in 2011 when Wade was healthy. They wouldn't been on the brink of losing to the Celtics and pacers. They beat the thunder in 5, but most games could have gone either way especially if the Heat role players hadnt satrted playing out of their minds. Maybe the ratings are stupid, I'm sure they are, but evaluating things from a talent perspective I think we have a better Nets squad than in the Kidd era. Of course there are so many different things that have to come together, will the players mesh etc, but on paper we are right there.

[Rollydog]

This is a NO brainer dont think twice trade. And I dont believe LA isnt thinking the same thing. I dont care what is being written. Orlando and Dwight have made such a mess over there that they have driven his price down to nothing. Thank your lucky stars that he wants us and that we have the bare minimum of slightly better than nothing.

Hey I said I'd do the trade. But people are undervaluing the potential of this squad, we're right there with the Bulls IMO

[therealbig3]

This is a NO brainer dont think twice trade. And I dont believe LA isnt thinking the same thing. I dont care what is being written. Orlando and Dwight have made such a mess over there that they have driven his price down to nothing. Thank your lucky stars that he wants us and that we have the bare minimum of slightly better than nothing.

Hey I said I'd do the trade. But people are undervaluing the potential of this squad, we're right there with the Bulls IMO

I disagree, because any team that wants to go anywhere in the playoffs usually needs legitimate paint defense/rebounding. We don't have that, unless Lopez makes big strides.

In order to get those things without trading for Dwight, I think we should go after defensive big men who will sign for vet minimums, like Kirilenko, K-Mart, and maybe Camby.

Kirilenko and K-Mart would be my top 2 choices, personally.

Of course, Dwight would be the ideal target...but we could still go after Kirilenko and K-Mart in addition to that. THAT team would be a surefire contender, and could go toe to toe with anybody imo.

[Rollydog]

I disagree, because any team that wants to go anywhere in the playoffs usually needs legitimate paint defense/rebounding. We don't have that, unless Lopez makes big strides.

[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Umm who won the championship this year? Are you talkin about Bosh?

down the road sure we can upgrade Hump or somethin, maybe a deal with picks next year for Ibaka, who the thunder may not want to keep. But is Lopez/Hump any worse than Boozer/Noah? Remember, Hump IS an elite rebounder. 3.8 offensive a game is elite. Lopez grabbed 3.3 in 2010. I've always thought that offensive boards is a better way of evaluating true rebounding ability.

[netsfaninnyc]

in a weird way, the nets team we have right now kind of reminds me of the nets with kidd/carter/jefferson/kristic, except I would say we have more potential/talent