NBA Summer League in Las Vegas (July 13 to 22)

7-Day Dray · Post #61 » by **7-Day Dray** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 10:26 pm

Floater wrote:Damn, Ernie even gets heat for how he constructs a damn Summer League Roster.

You can say SL is overrated all you want, but as a GM, you're supposed to look at all avenues to acquire talent. You do know that Jeremy Lin got discovered in a Summer League game right?

Floater · Post #62 » by **Floater** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 10:29 pm

7-Day Dray wrote:
Floater wrote:Damn, Ernie even gets heat for how he constructs a damn Summer League Roster.

You can say SL is overrated all you want, but as a GM, you're supposed to look at all avenues to acquire talent. You do know that Jeremy got discovered in a Summer League game right?

I just think it's a bit absurd to get on a GM for a Summer League roster. The perception is that our roster is close to being set and that we want vets to fill any other positions. Now tell me, if you were a youngin who didn't get drafted, looking to make a team, are you looking at the Wizards as a prime place to go? I know I'd look elsewhere.

Post #63 » by **LyricalRico** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 10:35 pm

^ Exactly, people have to remember that there's no summer league "draft". The players have to agree to play for you. And if they don't see an opportunity for themselves here, then so be it. That's on them, not Ernie.

Dat2U · Post #64 » by **Dat2U** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 10:51 pm

DCZards wrote:
TGW wrote:
Be careful, Ruzious. The Ernie Grunfeld fanclub will accuse you of overrating summer league as they accused people of overrating 2nd rounders, cap space, and whatever other area that makes Ernie look like a functioning idiot.

Is the Ernie Fan Club any worse than the Ernie Haters? Don't both sides kinda overreact to everything Ernie says or does?

Than Ernie even has a fan club is beyond belief. I mean do you guys have like mediocrity bracelets you give out to club members or something? What about IN ERNIE WE TRUST bumper stickers?

Post #65 » by **LyricalRico** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 10:53 pm

I have a key chain that says "WWED?"...

Post #66 » by **Ruzious** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 11:25 pm

LyricalRico wrote:I have a key chain that says "WWED?"...

At work, do you have those posters that motivate you to strive for... mediocrity. "Reach for the....um... toilet and you just might get to the urinal."? :wink:

80sballboy · Post #67 » by **80sballboy** » Sat Jul 7, 2012 1:32 am

http://www.nba.com/wizards/wizards-open ... amp-monday

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #68 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Sat Jul 7, 2012 2:34 am

LyricalRico wrote:I have a key chain that says "WWED?"...

Who would Ernie Draft?

We're watching Ernie destroy

We're worried Ernie's drafting

We're worried Ernie's dealing

When Will Ernie … nah, that's not even funny

gesa2 · Post #69 » by **gesa2** » Sat Jul 7, 2012 2:59 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:I have a key chain that says "WWED?"...

Who would Ernie Draft?

We're watching Ernie destroy

We're worried Ernie's drafting

We're worried Ernie's dealing

When Will Ernie … nah, that's not even funny

... depart?

Post #70 » by **montestewart** » Sat Jul 7, 2012 3:30 am

LyricalRico wrote:I have a key chain that says "WWED?"...

I have a key chain that says "WEED?"

JonathanJoseph · Post #71 » by **JonathanJoseph** » Sat Jul 7, 2012 7:33 am

Hopefully folks are a little above assuming that one has to be an Ernie "lover" or an Ernie "hater". I've soured on Grunfeld completely over the past 2 years but the criticism here is an embarrassing reflection on this forum.

Someone earlier in this thread was in such a lather said something like "Ernie didn't even think he needed a 2nd rookie" which is so ignorant as to be factually false. Just like in the Satoransky thread when people were accusing Ernie of "wasting" a pick despite the fact that they'd never seen the player play before. And to those noting that Jeremy Lin was found in summer league, it wasn't even the Knicks who had him on their SL team.

Anyone who's ever been around summer league basketball on any level knows that it might as well be a glorified scrimmage, and much like preseason you are there to scout other players as much as your own. The Wiz are going to give heavy minutes to Mack, Beal, Satoransky, Singleton and Vesely and guys like Siler and Randolph will get a glorified tryout, and even if one of them or anyone else in SL stars over the next few weeks they'll have no shot at making the Wizards roster which is already chock full of young talent.

You may not like the young talent that is suiting up for the Wizards, but to suggest there is none is quite simply ignorant on numerous levels. Even if Grunfeld is incompetent, these criticisms are beyond ridiculous.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #72 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Sat Jul 7, 2012 12:40 pm

Floater wrote:
7-Day Dray wrote:
Floater wrote:Damn, Ernie even gets heat for how he constructs a damn Summer League Roster.

You can say SL is overrated all you want, but as a GM, you're supposed to look at all avenues to acquire talent. You do know that Jeremy got discovered in a Summer League game right?

I just think it's a bit absurd to get on a GM for a Summer League roster. The perception is that our roster is close to being set and that we want vets to fill any other positions. Now tell me, if you were a youngin who didn't get drafted, looking to make a team, are you looking at the Wizards as a prime place to go? I know I'd look elsewhere.

When it comes to making a team, the Wizards typically undervalue just how good their D-League call ups are. Alonzo Gee was a Wizard for a while. He's probably better than anyone they have defensively on the wings, Trevor Ariza included IMO. Larry Owens was a very good defender. I saw him thoroughly frustrate Paul Pierce with his harassing defense. It wasn't a case of Pierce taking him lightly or Pierce going easy, either. Owens played lock down defense. He is not in the league right now. Larry Owens is a quality reserve and IMO can start at SF and not hurt a team most of the times. Why isn't he in the league? Othyus Jeffers suffered an unfortunate injury, otherwise he might have a nice contract as a reserve SF.

When it comes to summer league and observing talent, I agree with where 7DD is coming from. Jeremy Lin destroyed John Wall but his good play wasn't taken seriously enough. Instead of seizing the opportunity to give him a long term deal for pennies on the dollar--and one he would have been happy with just to make the NBA--now, the Rockets and Knicks are fighting to see who can pay him the most. Marketing has everything to do with this for sure. Still, the point is summer league showed he can play.

When I see the Wizards pursuing Courtney Lee what it tells me is they don't respect the talent they already have on their roster. I believe between Roger Mason Jr., Mo Evans, Cartier Martin, and Morris Almond; they already have a player on par with Courtney Lee. What they SHOULD DO is see if Almond has a good summer league. There is absolutely nothing that special about Courtney Lee to keep paying him more than what Cartier Martin makes. Why not respect that guys like Shaun Livingston, James Singleton, and Cartier Martin might be good? So what if they played in the D-League not too long ago? The remaining roster spot should go to a player who really steps up. Summer league or D-League can be where you see if a guy can play.

I remember several years ago thinking that Marquis Daniels deserved to be drafted. I recall a triple double he had in the NCAAs (or was it the NIT?). Despite that he went undrafted out of Auburn. Daniels did not even have to play 3 or 4 summer league games before his talent impressed the Dallas Mavericks. They stashed him away and signed him.

I think the Wizards have character guys and guys hungry to stick in the league at SG/SF. They don't need to pay mediocre players like Courtney Lee. They need to recognize why SA might be interested in players like Cartier Martin.

MF23 · Post #73 » by **MF23** » Sat Jul 7, 2012 3:20 pm

80sballboy wrote:http://www.nba.com/wizards/wizards-open-summer-mini-camp-monday

Great Prezlic isn't on the roster. Would have been nice to actually gauge whether he could contribute in the future at SF. I would not be comfortable signing him to training camp, I'd like to see him in summer league first.

Post #74 » by **LyricalRico** » Sat Jul 7, 2012 8:22 pm

montestewart wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:I have a key chain that says "WWED?"...

I have a key chain that says "WEED?"

mohammed10 · Post #75 » by **mohammed10** » Sun Jul 8, 2012 2:17 pm

Good look at where some of the local guys are playing this Summer...

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... edID=10480

closg00 · Post #76 » by **closg00** » Sun Jul 8, 2012 2:39 pm

mohammed10 wrote:Good look at where some of the local guys are playing this Summer...

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... edID=10480

Sad news for CCJ, per the article, Mo Almond will be on the Thunders SL team.

mohammed10 · Post #77 » by **mohammed10** » Sun Jul 8, 2012 2:50 pm

closg00 wrote:
Sad news for CCJ, per the article, Mo Almond will be on the Thunders SL team.

payitforward · Post #78 » by **payitforward** » Sun Jul 8, 2012 5:27 pm

JonathanJoseph wrote:Someone earlier in this thread was in such a lather said something like "Ernie didn't even think he needed a 2nd rookie" which is so ignorant as to be factually false. Just like in the Satoransky thread when people were accusing Ernie of "wasting" a pick despite the fact that they'd never seen the player play before. And to those noting that Jeremy Lin was found in summer league, it wasn't even the Knicks who had him on their SL team.

Could you explain what you are trying to say please? e.g.

1. what does "so ignorant as to be factually false" mean?

2. Are you saying that Satoransky was a high-value pick at #32 in a draft that included a handful or more of players that were pushed into round 2, because of how many guys stayed in school to avoid the lockout? If so, you are saying that in splendid isolation.

3. Lin had terrific college numbers but wasn't drafted. He came to many people's attention in SL. What difference does it make whose team he was on?

payitforward · Post #79 » by **payitforward** » Sun Jul 8, 2012 5:31 pm

closg00 wrote:
mohammed10 wrote:Good look at where some of the local guys are playing this Summer...

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... edID=10480

Sad news for CCJ, per the article, Mo Almond will be on the Thunders SL team.

Not necessarily. I think you play in SL for everyone to take a look at you. Not sure I see a place for Almond on the Thunder for the season.

That said, it's important for us to sign James Singleton, and I'd sign Cartier Martin over Almond. With JS and CM, we are at 14 unless I'm wrong. (unless we amnesty Blatche)

hands11 · Post #80 » by **hands11** » Sun Jul 8, 2012 6:05 pm

This goes completely against what someone was posting recently. Where you land has a great deal to do with production, opportunity and growth. If you don't get drafted in the first round, your chances of making it are a lot lower.

Most of the filtering system is correct. Players that are good when younger get ranked higher and get more opportunity. To a large degree that system works correctly. No system is perfect but you have to play the odds.

At the same time, there are tones of players that don't fit the mold and come through the system in other ways. There are gems out there for sure but they don't get the same opportunity to establish their talent so they bounce around and their talent often goes wasted with few opportunities and constant moving around.

Look at all the opportunities a player like Nick gets. Why ? He is long and tall for a SG, he can shoot pretty well, and he came from a name program. So he gets drafted higher and gets lots of opportunities to develop. The fact that he doesn't have anything special between his ears gets minimized by more teams because of the other stuff he has.

I know there are lots of players that can contribute as much or more then Nick if given the same opportunity to grow and establish their games. The leash is just so much shorter for those players. Its a catch 22. If you invest a decent draft slot on a player, you live through more of their growing pains/on court mistakes. They also get more of a green light to develop their game.

There just isn't a lot of opportunity for the no name players. Bad teams are looking for star talent so they use most of their roster slots fishing in more conventional waters. These unestablished players can roll through their rosters but they usually get pushed out for the next draft pick or FA because letting them walk cost little or nothing at all. Then you have your good/great teams that can fill a roster spot or two with cheap vet established talent. That leaves only a few slots on teams that are good/great like SA who have establish systems where they can plug in a few of these unknown guys once they spot their talent as it gets uncovered either in the D League, summer ball or by seeing them play on other teams.

That's what SA did with Mason.

It is clearly tough for these kind of players. Bad teams really keep them around because it is a PR nightmare. If you are not winning, it hard to sell hope when you have undrafted D League players on your team. Plenty here have complained about this kind of thing here.

I think if they expanded the rosters to say 18, then more of these players would get developed.