Ray joins the Heat/Ray Allen appreciation thread

[tmac22]

I'm not sure how you see these as "biased" answers. Have you even watched Ray Allen the past two years? Did you see how inept he was toward the end of the season and in the playoffs because of his ankles?

He has trouble even working off of screens anymore because he has lost so much quickness.

The last one seemed biased because the guys name was "702Celtics". And yes his ankles are much weaker with his age but coming off the bench and just having surgery should be enough to make him an effective shooter for 25-30 mins.

Sounds like you didn't read my post or haven't seen Ray Allen play in over 4 years. Maybe both.

Averaging 16.5 for the last 4 years is pretty good. And being a Celtics fan I'm assuming you loved him for the last 4 years. Don't hate on the guy and downgrade him because he left your team. He still has game there is no denying it.

[chrisab123]

702Celtics hit it right on the head. He is a borderline scrub.

I mean, he really is a lesser version of Kyle Korver at this point.

Now, I wouldn't go that far

I wouldn't go that far either, however I think Korver has been an under appreciated asset around the league for years, when healthy the guy is a volume 3 point shooter that is more of a specialist than anything else, maybe that's the angle that 702 was going for. I personally wouldn't mind having him a part of this Celtics team at all. He just doesn't play that much defense, and that's putting it kindly.

[Valid]

702Celtics hit it right on the head. He is a borderline scrub.

I mean, he really is a lesser version of Kyle Korver at this point.

Now, I wouldn't go that far

I wouldn't go that far either, however I think Korver has been an under appreciated asset around the league for years, when healthy the guy is a volume 3 point shooter that is more of a specialist than anything else, maybe that's the angle that 702 was going for. I personally wouldn't mind having him a part of this Celtics team at all. He just doesn't play that much defense, and that's putting it kindly.

Is Ray Allen not essentially a three-point specialist at this point of his career?

[tmac22]

tmac:

Um, you do realize that this is a CELTICS forum, right? So I don't see why a poster with that name "702Celtics" should surprise you.

Anyway, I don't see any need in arguing with you further. It's obvious that you haven't watched Ray Allen at all recently.

I bet you still think McGrady can drop 25 a night, too.

I'm not surprised at seeing a Celtics fan on a Celtics forum I'm saying it is clearly biased. If your going to talk about someone's playing ability it should be free of things like bias. An no I don't think TMAc can still drop 25 haha that would be ridiculous, he is a boss though and had some of the best potential I've ever seen. Its too bad he didn't really give a **** for most of his career and had to deal with injuries.

[702Celtics]

I'm not sure how you see these as "biased" answers. Have you even watched Ray Allen the past two years? Did you see how inept he was toward the end of the season and in the playoffs because of his ankles?

He has trouble even working off of screens anymore because he has lost so much quickness.

The last one seemed biased because the guys name was "702Celtics". And yes his ankles are much weaker with his age but coming off the bench and just having surgery should be enough to make him an effective shooter for 25-30 mins.

Sounds like you didn't read my post or haven't seen Ray Allen play in over 4 years. Maybe both.

Averaging 16.5 for the last 4 years is pretty good. And being a Celtics fan I'm assuming you loved him for the last 4 years. Don't hate on the guy and downgrade him because he left your team. He still has game there is no denying it.

His averaged dropped 2ppg to 14 during the regular season. He also had a horrible playoff where he averaged only 10.7ppg, mostly as a starter I might add.

So no, he doesn't have much game left in him. He's rapidly declining.

[702Celtics]

tmac:

Um, you do realize that this is a CELTICS forum, right? So I don't see why a poster with that name "702Celtics" should surprise you.

Anyway, I don't see any need in arguing with you further. It's obvious that you haven't watched Ray Allen at all recently.

I bet you still think McGrady can drop 25 a night, too.

I'm not surprised at seeing a Celtics fan on a Celtics forum I'm saying it is clearly biased. If your going to talk about someone's playing ability it should be free of things like bias. An no I don't think TMAc can still drop 25 haha that would be ridiculous, he is a boss though and had some of the best potential I've ever seen. Its too bad he didn't really give a **** for most of his career and had to deal with injuries.

I'd be saying the same thing about Allen if he was still in Boston. It wouldn't change my "bias" about it. Just stop, you're grasping at straws here.

[Valid]

tmac:

Um, you do realize that this is a CELTICS forum, right? So I don't see why a poster with that name "702Celtics" should surprise you.

Anyway, I don't see any need in arguing with you further. It's obvious that you haven't watched Ray Allen at all recently.

I bet you still think McGrady can drop 25 a night, too.

I'm not surprised at seeing a Celtics fan on a Celtics forum I'm saying it is clearly biased. If your going to talk about someone's playing ability it should be free of things like bias. An no I don't think TMAc can still drop 25 haha that would be ridiculous, he is a boss though and had some of the best potential I've ever seen. Its too bad he didn't really give a **** for most of his career and had to deal with injuries.

So when someone has watched a player play essentially every game for the last five years and he formulates a perfectly lucid opinion about his style of play and how much his level of play has diminished due to age and injuries, he is being biased?

Celtic fans were getting on Ray's case LONG before he went to Miami. There were many C's fans who wanted Pietrus playing over Ray during the playoffs because he was crapping the bed so badly.

[tmac22]

No reason to argue anymore we will never agree. Good luck to your team next year.

[chrisab123]

I wouldn't go that far either, however I think Korver has been an under appreciated asset around the league for years, when healthy the guy is a volume 3 point shooter that is more of a specialist than anything else, maybe that's the angle that 702 was going for. I personally wouldn't mind having him a part of this Celtics team at all. He just doesn't play that much defense, and that's putting it kindly.

Is Ray Allen not essentially a three-point specialist at this point of his career?

He's not, because while he can't drive to the basket (see ECF 2011) anymore he can still do well in transition and get into open space unlike most of the specialists. He requires more coverage based on his reputation alone. I mean nuts and bolts of the argument you can surely make a case, but if you're Doc Rivers do you put a better defender on Ray Allen or Kyle Korver?

[Valid]

I wouldn't go that far either, however I think Korver has been an under appreciated asset around the league for years, when healthy the guy is a volume 3 point shooter that is more of a specialist than anything else, maybe that's the angle that 702 was going for. I personally wouldn't mind having him a part of this Celtics team at all. He just doesn't play that much defense, and that's putting it kindly.

Is Ray Allen not essentially a three-point specialist at this point of his career?

He's not, because while he can't drive to the basket (see ECF 2011) anymore he can still do well in transition and get into open space unlike most of the specialists. He requires more coverage based on his reputation alone. I mean nuts and bolts of the argument you can surely make a case, but if you're Doc Rivers do you put a better defender on Ray Allen or Kyle Korver?

See, I disagree with him being able to do well in transition. Ray makes some of the worst decisions in transition I've ever seen (i.e. passing to the wrong player, taking it right at a defender when he has open teammates to pass to, etc.).

[greenbeans]

Ray, it was a blast, thank for the memories, now go ahead and choke on dicks for the rest of your life you scoundrel

[702Celtics]

I wouldn't go that far either, however I think Korver has been an under appreciated asset around the league for years, when healthy the guy is a volume 3 point shooter that is more of a specialist than anything else, maybe that's the angle that 702 was going for. I personally wouldn't mind having him a part of this Celtics team at all. He just doesn't play that much defense, and that's putting it kindly.

Is Ray Allen not essentially a three-point specialist at this point of his career?

He's not, because while he can't drive to the basket (see ECF 2011) anymore he can still do well in transition and get into open space unlike most of the specialists. He requires more coverage based on his reputation alone. I mean nuts and bolts of the argument you can surely make a case, but if you're Doc Rivers do you put a better defender on Ray Allen or Kyle Korver?

A couple years ago, Allen no question.

Now? Flip a coin. Korver is quicker than Allen at this point and both shoot the 3 well.

[chrisab123]

He's not, because while he can't drive to the basket (see ECF 2011) anymore he can still do well in transition and get into open space unlike most of the specialists. He requires more coverage based on his reputation alone. I mean nuts and bolts of the argument you can surely make a case, but if you're Doc Rivers do you put a better defender on Ray Allen or Kyle Korver?

See, I disagree with him being able to do well in transition. Ray makes some of the worst decisions in transition I've ever seen (i.e. passing to the wrong player, taking it right at a defender when he has open teammates to pass to, etc.).

I'm simply comparing his ability in transition to other "specialists" and 2nd unit players in the league since the analogy was Korver = Ray

[Valid]

He's not, because while he can't drive to the basket (see ECF 2011) anymore he can still do well in transition and get into open space unlike most of the specialists. He requires more coverage based on his reputation alone. I mean nuts and bolts of the argument you can surely make a case, but if you're Doc Rivers do you put a better defender on Ray Allen or Kyle Korver?

See, I disagree with him being able to do well in transition. Ray makes some of the worst decisions in transition I've ever seen (i.e. passing to the wrong player, taking it right at a defender when he has open teammates to pass to, etc.).

I'm simply comparing his ability in transition to other "specialists" and 2nd unit players in the league since the analogy was Korver = Ray

Oh okay. Understood.

[chrisab123]

He's not, because while he can't drive to the basket (see ECF 2011) anymore he can still do well in transition and get into open space unlike most of the specialists. He requires more coverage based on his reputation alone. I mean nuts and bolts of the argument you can surely make a case, but if you're Doc Rivers do you put a better defender on Ray Allen or Kyle Korver?

A couple years ago, Allen no question.

Now? Flip a coin. Korver is quicker than Allen at this point and both shoot the 3 well.

Don't forget, Ray Allen was our best player in the 1st half of the season last year. He was slowed by bone spurs (which can end careers), and might have been a problem in the locker room.

Here is how I see it, the Heat in my opinion will probably make the finals...BUT they won't win, I can see that team imploding in the finals much like the hyped Lakers Big 4 of Malone Payton Shaq and Kobe. That's essentially what it is in Miami right now, I just can't see Ray Allen being content with being a 10-12 ppg scorer off the bench, especially given the fact he was assured a starting job here this year with Bradley being out for a while.

Now when Damon left the Red Sox for the Yankees, he was given a starting job and more money it was somewhat reasonable (I'm a Sox fan too), Ray leaving for less money and a backup job is a smack in the face to everyone in that locker room and the fans of the city. Ray isn't going to be happy halfway through the season unless he somehow gets 30 + minutes a game. I don't see the Heat wearing down Bosh for 30 + minutes at the 5 and Bron for 30 minutes a game at the 4. Remember when LeBron was forced to be on Rondo a few years back, and he complained about being tired. The 4 spot in the league is bigger and tougher than its been in quite sometime (which is why the 5 spot you find very few elite options) just my opinion of course.

[RajonRondo9dime]

RAY IS A B!!!!!!!!

BURN RAY BURN

[kamelion4291]

I don't know why people keep mentioning that Ray would start while Bradley is injured as if that actually matters. It's a 3 year contract. Being a placeholding starter for a 1/3 of a season makes no difference. Allen was apparently fine with being a backup as long as he got minutes. Miami offers him more available minutes because of the hybrid and unconventional lineups they can play. Wade, Allen, Battier, LeBron, and Bosh is a great lineup. In Boston, Terry would eat his minutes unless you ran something like Rondo, Terry, Allen, Pierce, and Garnett, which I don't see Boston running much.

Also, Rondo made him miserable, so you wanted him to come back and play in Boston and be unhappy just because you offered him more money. Is that him being a "traitor", or is that Boston fans being selfish? It seems pretty obvious to me.

[Valid]

I don't know why people keep mentioning that Ray would start while Bradley is injured as if that actually matters. It's a 3 year contract. Being a placeholding starter for a 1/3 of a season makes no difference. Allen was apparently fine with being a backup as long as he got minutes. Miami offers him more available minutes because of the hybrid and unconventional lineups they can play. Wade, Allen, Battier, LeBron, and Bosh is a great lineup. In Boston, Terry would eat his minutes unless you ran something like Rondo, Terry, Allen, Pierce, and Garnett, which I don't see Boston running much.

Also, Rondo made him miserable, so you wanted him to come back and play in Boston and be unhappy just because you offered him more money. Is that him being a "traitor", or is that Boston fans being selfish? It seems pretty obvious to me.

Just stop. You're making yourself look like an absolute fool.

[chrisab123]

I don't know why people keep mentioning that Ray would start while Bradley is injured as if that actually matters. It's a 3 year contract. Being a placeholding starter for a 1/3 of a season makes no difference. Allen was apparently fine with being a backup as long as he got minutes. Miami offers him more available minutes because of the hybrid and unconventional lineups they can play. Wade, Allen, Battier, LeBron, and Bosh is a great lineup. In Boston, Terry would eat his minutes unless you ran something like Rondo, Terry, Allen, Pierce, and Garnett, which I don't see Boston running much.

Also, Rondo made him miserable, so you wanted him to come back and play in Boston and be unhappy just because you offered him more money. Is that him being a "traitor", or is that Boston fans being selfish? It seems pretty obvious to me.

1st year he would be a starter, 2nd year he would be a valuable role player off the bench that would be a better buy than most players in the league. At the same token, why do people assume that Bradley would be a better player than Tony Allen was after a short time of being a starter in the league? I loved the way Tony Allen played too, excellent defender but he isn't a real starting 2, the jury is still out on Bradley obviously.

I think he was hurt about Rondo and KG and decided to leave...that's fine, I just get uneasy when Celtics fans assume Bradley is going to step right and and be the guy at the 2 for the next 5-10 years.

[pistons]

Didn't the Celtics offer Ray more money per year than they offered Terry ?? I think that implies they think he can still play , and be more than just a run-of-the mill specialist.