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Asik Discussion. Pg 50 Sheridan: Bulls will match

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S & T not happening - should Bulls match Houston offer to Omer?

They should match and will
74
31%
They should match but will not
16
7%
They should not match but will
80
34%
They should not match and will not
68
29%
 
Total votes: 238

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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#401 » by LoveDaBoo » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:23 am

AAU Teammate wrote:Several people here to quote, but in short.... you get Noah and Nazr guarding Dwight Howard for a full playoff series, and you will gain a greater appreciation for Asik.

People act like Asik's 15 mpg mean he never played more than 15. There were games he played more, games he played less. Reason being, there are some teams where Noah's talents are less useful, and some where Asik's are less useful.

Having both of them helped make us an elite defense. Defense is what we were best at, and 48 minutes of multifaceted centers was a reason we had an advantage over other teams.

You guys just conveniently forgot how our bench mob used to come in and turn the tide of games. Asik and Gibson = stifling. Noah has an array of skills, but defensively he's not nearly as physical as Asik. His offensive rebounding is largely a product of playing a lot of minutes with Rose driving to the hoop, drawing attention from opposing big men.

When Noah gets boxed out, he is very boxed out.

You act as though Asik stops Dwight.

How in god's name did that become a meme? When the Bulls and Magic square off, there's bits of Noah and Asik in Dwight's stool the next day. Asik seems to give a bit more resistance, but the result is generally the same: Dwight just scores anyways.
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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#402 » by AAU Teammate » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:23 am

Red Larrivee wrote:
AAU Teammate wrote:Huh? The point is we had a very successful defense year and he was a very good-sized part of that.


He was an important part, but not the be-all, end-all. The Bulls will always be an elite defensive team as long as Thibs is the coach and Paxson/Gar are running the FO. Defense has never been an extended problem on this team in the Paxson Era.


It's one thing to be defense-minded and another to be an elite defense at a time when your defense is so good that you are finishing seasons with the #1 overall NBA record.

If Asik is replaceable and you are implying you're ready to dip back into previous Paxson Era levels of defense, then you are ready for More Losses.


As others have said, your overall theme of saying we're too reliant on defense is ignoring that our elite defense is what got us here....and if we balance it out, we won't be "here" anymore (among the few elite teams in the NBA)
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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#403 » by Steve Brule » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:23 am

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:I'm thinking the Captain Omerica logo with a picture of Judge Reinhold.


Ohhhh you're being sarcastic. Well I don't care cause your just a stupid gorilla and you fling poo and ive seen those finger paintings your kids make and they suck.

I'm sorry I didn't mean that
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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#404 » by boogydown » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:24 am

"Jerry has been very firm on paying the tax this season"
"This offseason is about building a better basketball team, not about financials"


Letting go of Asik does the opposite. The quickest we could get back to the level we were is 2014.

Everything you guys are saying is really the opposite of what I expect the Bulls to do unless we're being manipulated.

Now I'd very much like to move Asik for a SG but that just isn't reality for us. The Bulls seem to dislike someone who can score at will at the 2 spot.
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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#405 » by PJ Brown » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:25 am

Red Larrivee wrote:
This just goes back to tong's point that a good chunk of this board overvalues defense and believes a surplus of defense is a necessity and not a luxury. In turn, it's no surprise why this organization in the past 14 years has been a crap offensive franchise. This team is never going to suck at defense as long as Paxson and Thibodeau are here.

Would it really kill us if we dropped from 1st in defense to 3rd? God forbid.


Kill, no, but even if the Bulls greatly improve offensively, you're never going to out-offense the Heat and Thunder. If you want to actually win, you sort of need to be elite and certainly must be better than "not sucking." You're not wrong that people might overvalue defense around here, but when you refer to these things as luxuries, I think it reveals that you don't take it seriously enough. I'm not one of the Omer = DPOY talent guys, but the drop off from Asik to Nazr is monumental. The Bulls wouldn't fall off the face of the earth without Asik, but they will be worse.
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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#406 » by Angry Jimmy » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:26 am

PJ Brown wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:
AAU Teammate wrote:Huh? The point is we had a very successful defense year and he was a very good-sized part of that.


He was an important part, but not the be-all, end-all. The Bulls will always be an elite defensive team as long as Thibs is the coach and Paxson/Gar are running the FO. Defense has never been an extended problem on this team in the Paxson Era.


You make this point all the time, and I respect it when you're arguing trading defense to acquire more offense, but this is just an example of getting worse at defense. Getting worse at defense, even when you're good at it, makes you worse.

I can't blame anybody for staying away from the $14 million plus year, but losing Asik will make the Bulls worse, and that's not good.


So if getting worse on defense makes you worse, you think trading Luol Deng for Kevin Durant would make us worse, since Luol is a better defensive player?
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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#407 » by Jimmy Forums » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:26 am

boogydown wrote:"Jerry has been very firm on paying the tax this season"
"This offseason is about building a better basketball team, not about financials"


Letting go of Asik does the opposite. The quickest we could get back to the level we were is 2014.
Everything you guys are saying is really the opposite of what I expect the Bulls to do unless we're being manipulated.


That's our situation already, dude. You remember that thing about our superstar being one-legged, right?
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Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against matching 

Post#408 » by Magilla_Gorilla » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:27 am

Steve Brule wrote:
Magilla_Gorilla wrote:I'm thinking the Captain Omerica logo with a picture of Judge Reinhold.


Ohhhh you're being sarcastic. Well I don't care cause your just a stupid gorilla and you fling poo and ive seen those finger paintings your kids make and they suck.

I'm sorry I didn't mean that



I'm 100% serious. I'll take a pic of the shirt after I make it. (with Omer, not Judge)
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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#409 » by boogydown » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:27 am

BonanzaHawk wrote:That's our situation already, dude. You remember that thing about our superstar being one-legged, right?


So Rose is going to be out until the Summer of 2014?
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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#410 » by Red Larrivee » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:28 am

AAU Teammate wrote:It's one thing to be defense-minded and another to be an elite defense at a time when your defense is so good that you are finishing seasons with the #1 overall NBA record.

If Asik is replaceable and you are implying you're ready to dip back into previous Paxson Era levels of defense, then you are ready for More Losses.


Previous Paxson Era levels of defense? Dude the Bulls have been a great defense for the better part of the Paxson Era. Why are we acting like anything but being #1 at defense is unacceptable? The Bulls are going to be an elite defensive team next year even without Rose. ITS NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE.

Asik IS replaceable. Easy to replace? No, but definitely replaceable.

As others have said, your overall theme of saying we're too reliant on defense is ignoring that our elite defense is what got us here....and if we balance it out, we won't be "here" anymore (among the few elite teams in the NBA)


So basically we should never fix our offense, and stay as an elite-defensive, mediocre offensive team.
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Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against matching 

Post#411 » by Magilla_Gorilla » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:29 am

Angry Jimmy wrote:
PJ Brown wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:[quote="AAU Teammate"]
Huh? The point is we had a very successful defense year and he was a very good-sized part of that.


He was an important part, but not the be-all, end-all. The Bulls will always be an elite defensive team as long as Thibs is the coach and Paxson/Gar are running the FO. Defense has never been an extended problem on this team in the Paxson Era.


You make this point all the time, and I respect it when you're arguing trading defense to acquire more offense, but this is just an example of getting worse at defense. Getting worse at defense, even when you're good at it, makes you worse.

I can't blame anybody for staying away from the $14 million plus year, but losing Asik will make the Bulls worse, and that's not good.


So if getting worse on defense makes you worse, you think trading Luol Deng for Kevin Durant would make us worse, since Luol is a better defensive player?[/quote]


Don't be ridiculous. None of the big men available are enough of an offensive upgrade to make any real impact there.
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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#412 » by Steve Brule » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:29 am

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:
Steve Brule wrote:
Magilla_Gorilla wrote:I'm thinking the Captain Omerica logo with a picture of Judge Reinhold.


Ohhhh you're being sarcastic. Well I don't care cause your just a stupid gorilla and you fling poo and ive seen those finger paintings your kids make and they suck.

I'm sorry I didn't mean that



I'm 100% serious. I'll take a pic of the shirt after I make it. (with Omer, not Judge)


Sorry, I'm quick to react and self-conscious.
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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#413 » by Jimmy Forums » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:30 am

boogydown wrote:
BonanzaHawk wrote:That's our situation already, dude. You remember that thing about our superstar being one-legged, right?


So Rose is going to be out until the Summer of 2014?


I assume you meant we won't be "back to our level" until the season of 2013-2014, meaning we won't be in contention next year, which is how we are already. If that isn't what you meant, be more clear.
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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#414 » by BULLHITTER » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:30 am

"Jerry has been very firm on paying the tax this season"
"This offseason is about building a better basketball team, not about financials"


that's the funniest ish for a while......put your money where your mouth is.....and hopefully not on a damn backup center stiff.

Letting go of Asik does the opposite. The quickest we could get back to the level we were is 2014.
Everything you guys are saying is really the opposite of what I expect the Bulls to do unless we're being manipulated.


that's some bs......and fwiw, the reality is that 2014 IS when they'll probably get back to some level of relevance; and that's IF rose is fully recovered. if not.....well, "manipulated" would be a PC way of putting it. :o
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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#415 » by boogydown » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:31 am

BonanzaHawk wrote:I assume you meant we won't be "back to our level" until the season of 2013-2014, meaning we won't be in contention next year, which is how we are already. If that isn't what you meant, be more clear.


Summer of 2014 would be the earliest to make a move but unlikely even then because players decline and we're unlikely to land a top free agent.
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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#416 » by LobosJordan » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:32 am

I voted D initially, and would prefer the Bulls to not match. But if they do match I wouldn't blame them. He is a fantastic backup and he is valuable enough to be traded at some point. Losing him for nothing is probably what they don't want to happen.
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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#417 » by LoveDaBoo » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:32 am

LobosJordan wrote:
tikay0036 wrote:
LobosJordan wrote:I heard KC on CTL today talking about how he wants the Bulls to match because it is better than doing nothing and losing him for nothing. I sort of agreed with what he said. They could trade him at the final year of his contract and at least get something for him.

How in the hell do you trade a 15 million dollar contract with the name Omer Asik attached to it?

It would be an expiring contract. It isn't entirely unthinkable, many bad players have been traded in the final year with much worse contracts that is being reported with Asik.

Many people have survived falls from the third story of a building. But I wouldn't recommend intentionally jumping.


It's one thing to sign someone to a contract that you know is a bad contract when you offer it when it puts you over the top. It's another thing to do it prior to a season that's lost anyways, and the signing won't put you over the top in any case.
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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#418 » by Jimmy Forums » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:33 am

boogydown wrote:
BonanzaHawk wrote:I assume you meant we won't be "back to our level" until the season of 2013-2014, meaning we won't be in contention next year, which is how we are already. If that isn't what you meant, be more clear.


2014 earliest but unlikely even then because players decline and we're unlikely to land a top free agent.


So if it's unlikely even then, why are you so eager to pay Asik all this money, as if he's going to put us over the top and power us to a championship? Now you're just being irresponsible.
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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#419 » by Leslie Forman » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:33 am

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:Don't be ridiculous. None of the big men available are enough of an offensive upgrade to make any real impact there.
Luol Deng is average-ish on offense, and elite on defense.

Kevin Durant is elite on offense, average-ish on defense.

Individual defense is simply not as valuable as individual offense.
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Re: Asik Discussion, P18 Aggrey- Bulls leaning against match 

Post#420 » by PJ Brown » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:35 am

Angry Jimmy wrote:
So if getting worse on defense makes you worse, you think trading Luol Deng for Kevin Durant would make us worse, since Luol is a better defensive player?


Are we trading Omer Asik for a vastly superior player with incredible offensive skills? Because that's an entirely different argument. We're not. Sacrificing defense for offense won't make you worse. Simply losing defensive talent does. It's not that complicated.

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