Asik Discussion. Pg 50 Sheridan: Bulls will match

[WinCity]

I frankly would love if we payed the tax and its looking like we are going to go into the season paying the tax currently. Esp IF we match omer; but someone messing up in the upper level is all I can say. No way if we weren't going to pay the tax we keep deng/boozer on this team. Unless they plan on cutting boozer soon(doubt it,but maybe),and I think we missed the boat on trading deng on draft night. Plus his trade value has to be worse with him possibly battling a back issues. Like come on gar/pax the cut the umbilical cord on deng,he clearly the key to us getting younger and their love feast for him is related to every move me make. Its just going to be interesting to see what moves we do or don't make to avoid the tax if in fact we intend to avoid the tax.

I have mixed feelings about the tax. I would love it as a gesture to show JR is not overcome by cheap bastardness, but on the other hand I favor a retool strategy and in that scenario not paying the tax makes sense. But if we are not retooling and just going to let Omer walk and not even try to get a return for a valued 7 footer...wow. The Bulls should be looking to be very aggressive creating trade packagers with all their assets. We have expirings (CJ. KK, RB), we have young bigs (Taj, Omer) we have a valued SF (DEng), and we have picks...and we cant turn all that into a 2nd option or some high potential young players who can develop into 2nd option...instead we just seem to be intending to bleed these assets until 2014, getting worse every season in between, and hoping we do well in free agency in 2014...terrible plan IMO

[cubd8]

Does declining on Asik put the Bulls back into the hunt for Bayless or Lou Williams, maybe Courtney Lee OR would this move on Asik be all about avoiding the tax?

[Profound23]

We love average players so of course we do.

[Red Larrivee]

Does declining on Asik put the Bulls back into the hunt for Bayless or Lou Williams, maybe Courtney Lee OR would this move on Asik be all about avoiding the tax?

It doesn't change anything. Only way the Bulls get Williams or Lee is through a S/T involving Korver.

[Leto]

I think we should match but Im not sure we will. I hope we do. We don't need to deplete the talent pool rigth now. And when we do, it needs to be Boozer and Rip going.

[blumeany]

Bulls need to match - then hire a big man coach to drill Asik every day for 2 years, working on his hands and offense so they can trade him by year 3.

[Leslie Forman]

Are we saying no to trading Asik for Bynum? Aldridge? Deng/Durant is a complete red herring.

There's no "red herring," it's just an example of how individual defense =/= individual offense in value to a team.

Of course Asik isn't being traded for Andrew Bynum. Their is no clear either/or situation here. The issue is that if you keep signing minor contributors to big contracts like that, you are hurting your flexibility. This is what is important when dealing with so many financial restrictions like there are in the NBA.

Has everyone seriously forgotten the Ben Wallace era already?

[PistolP]

Interesting that KC just wrote this about CJ, Brew & Korver:

Sources said the Bulls are exploring sign-and-trade possibilities for all three players in an attempt to avoid losing assets for nothing.

Maybe he meant trade, but an S&T would imply adding salary. Maybe we are seeing what we can get in S&Ts, and based on whether we add salary that way or not, that will impact the decision to bring back Omer.

[Angry Jimmy]

Are we saying no to trading Asik for Bynum? Aldridge? Deng/Durant is a complete red herring.

There's no "red herring," it's just an example of how individual defense =/= individual offense in value to a team.

Of course Asik isn't being traded for Andrew Bynum. Their is no clear either/or situation here. The issue is that if you keep signing minor contributors to big contracts like that, you are hurting your flexibility. This is what is important when dealing with so many financial restrictions like there are in the NBA.

Has everyone seriously forgotten the Ben Wallace era already?

Marcus Camby was available this offseason at half the price as Asik.

The difference between Camby's offense and Asik's is greater then the difference between Deng and Durants.

I think Camby would be an overall upgrade over Asik, even at his age.

[blumeany]

Interesting that KC just wrote this about CJ, Brew & Korver:

Sources said the Bulls are exploring sign-and-trade possibilities for all three players in an attempt to avoid losing assets for nothing.

Maybe he meant trade, but an S&T would imply adding salary. Maybe we are seeing what we can get in S&Ts, and based on whether we add salary that way or not, that will impact the decision to bring back Omer.

If rumors are to be believed, Bulls FO had a big boner for Courtney Lee. They may be pursuing opportunities to get him.

[WinCity]

Interesting that KC just wrote this about CJ, Brew & Korver:

Sources said the Bulls are exploring sign-and-trade possibilities for all three players in an attempt to avoid losing assets for nothing.

Maybe he meant trade, but an S&T would imply adding salary. Maybe we are seeing what we can get in S&Ts, and based on whether we add salary that way or not, that will impact the decision to bring back Omer.

Well thank god they are trying to do something. Doubt they can be successful though unless they are thinking big in terms of creating packages with Deng and picks to get high impact players back.

[Red Larrivee]

Has everyone seriously forgotten the Ben Wallace era already?

Basically the Bulls under Skiles ended up giving out five big contracts. Tyson Chandler, Kirk Hinrich, Luol Deng, Andres Nocioni and Ben Wallace.

How many of those guys were really, really good at scoring consistently in their NBA careers? How many are good at it now?

[AAU Teammate]

The beauty of our defense currently, is that it can defend any kind of lineup. We guard elite SFs with Luol. We switch beautifully against a team like LAC, in that Noah can guard Chris Paul on a switch. We guard Dwight Howard better than most teams because the classic big man is a dying breed.

Take Asik out, and we don't have the widebody defender needed to guard a Dwight or a Hibbert even. These are the kinds of guys that we'll face in a playoff series...and Noah man-on against that type of guy is not enough. In the playoffs, you tend to see talented centers..simply because the playoffs have the most complete teams.

While that's true, why are you guys hyping up what Asik does so well, and how important it is to this teams success, and then saying trade him after two years of his deal? Are we all in agreement that Asik isn't a long-term piece of this team and doesn't need to be? it seems so.

Either way, losing our biggest body, doesn't mean we'll be an awful defensive team. We'll still be elite at it.

I will say this much about your point of view. Organizational health is important. So I have my tastes regarding the way I want our defense, but if they have a plan for backup center then I have to respect that mindset.

[Angry Jimmy]

Has everyone seriously forgotten the Ben Wallace era already?

Basically the Bulls under Skiles ended up giving out five big contracts. Tyson Chandler, Kirk Hinrich, Luol Deng, Andres Nocioni and Ben Wallace.

How many of those guys were really, really good at scoring consistently in their NBA careers? How many are good at it now?

Noc is out of the league, Wallace is gone too. Deng is a decent player on offense, and while Chandler isn't a 20pt a night guy, he does give a team 10-12pts on an astronomically high efficiency rate.

That said all of those guys are light years ahead of Asik on offense.

[cubd8]

Does declining on Asik put the Bulls back into the hunt for Bayless or Lou Williams, maybe Courtney Lee OR would this move on Asik be all about avoiding the tax?

It doesn't change anything. Only way the Bulls get Williams or Lee is through a S/T involving Korver.

How would a scenario like that work? Korver and a 2nd round pick for Williams? Bulls would be taking on money in a deal like that, no?

[Red Larrivee]

How would a scenario like that work? Korver and a 2nd round pick for Williams? Bulls would be taking on money in a deal like that, no?

The only money the Bulls would be taking on is the contract they get from Williams or whoever, that's signed by their original team.

[Jimmy Forums]

If the FO really is looking for trades for Korver, Brewer, and Watson now, whatever they get in return better be better than Perry Jones, Quincy Miller, Will Barton, Doron Lamb, etc. If not, then I'll be pissed, and I know for a fact I won't be alone.

[Angry Jimmy]

FYI, with Asik on the court the Bulls allowed 93.6 points/100 possessions.

With Asik on the bench the Bulls allowed 101.1 points/100 possessions.

I assume people see this and think, wow what a difference maker this guy is on defense.

However, they ignore his being a liability on offense.

With Asik on the court the Bulls scored 103.2 points/100 possessions.

With Asik on the bench the Bulls scored 111.2 points/100 possessions.

So per 100 possessions the Bulls out scored opponents by 9.6 with Asik in the game, and 10.1 with him on the bench.

His offense is a much bigger liability than some choose to acknowledge.

Bulls were actually better with Asik on the bench last year, the numbers back it up.

[StephenAA]

Should the Bulls match Houston's offer?

Of course they should.

If they don't, they're screaming to the world that they're not really in this to win it.

You can argue the Hinrich thing however you want to, but not the Asik thing. Depending on the decision the Bulls make, they're either about winning or money.

It's truly the ultimate "telling point."

+1

AA

[Angry Jimmy]

More advanced stats from last season.

Asik had a adjusted PER of 14.2 while allowing his opponent to post a 15.9 adjusted PER, making him a net -1.6 in that department.

He is only a difference maker on one end. He's not worth 8 million a year.