Asik Discussion. Pg 50 Sheridan: Bulls will match

[Future Coach]

I'd like to stay an elite defense and add some offense.

How do you realistically expect to do that without sacrificing some of your strength? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Over the course of Omer's contract we will have the opportunity to draft intelligently, spend exceptions, possibly bring Mirotic, possibly use a Charlotte pick. Trades are talked about every year and I expect the next few years to be no different.

I think the difference between you and me is you need all of this done before next year. For next year, I am fine with the following: (1) stay an elite defense (2) add Derrick by year's end and see what happens in the playoffs.

Haven't checked in on this thread in a while, but I agree with the sentiments expressed here. For folks expecting the Bulls to make moves to put them in place to win a championship this next season, you should also be expecting a big batch of disappointment. The team is in a forced holding pattern, forced by injuries. The team needs to remain competitive, improve if possible, and wait for Rose (and Deng) to return and bring the team to glory. Can't do that by letting assets walk, especially not when they are good players who actively impact games in a positive manner.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

Unfortunately Angry Jimmy, the numbers don't matter.

If Omer Asik leaves the Bulls, the franchise will never be the same again. Nevermind the likelihood that matching this offer will cause us to lose Taj Gibson & trade Joakim Noah.

Asik is more important than them both.

[StephenAA]

I can.

I'd rather bring Korver back than Asik.

Its not a choice. I want and expect both.

+1

AA

[AAU Teammate]

Unfortunately Angry Jimmy, the numbers don't matter.

If Omer Asik leaves the Bulls, the franchise will never be the same again. Nevermind the likelihood that matching this offer will cause us to lose Taj Gibson & trade Joakim Noah.

Asik is more important than them both.

You can't keep everyone on every team ever... everyone knows that. but a couple things you are ignoring

(1) it's only one year of big money, there's time to act
(2) we can pay the tax in the future
(3) by later trading either Asik, Taj or Noah, you get different kinds of value coming back. By ditching Asik now, you already shut out the possibility of getting value for him.

[StephenAA]

come on - they got to match now

They have no way to get a decent replacement centre

Matching does not mean that we must keep him all 3 years

Exactly!!

I believe in July 2013 there will be plenty of ways that we can get some "value" back by trading Asik - if necessary! Letting him go now, we get nothing!!

AA

[PJ Brown]

FYI, with Asik on the court the Bulls allowed 93.6 points/100 possessions.

With Asik on the bench the Bulls allowed 101.1 points/100 possessions.

I assume people see this and think, wow what a difference maker this guy is on defense.

However, they ignore his being a liability on offense.

With Asik on the court the Bulls scored 103.2 points/100 possessions.

With Asik on the bench the Bulls scored 111.2 points/100 possessions.

So per 100 possessions the Bulls out scored opponents by 9.6 with Asik in the game, and 10.1 with him on the bench.

His offense is a much bigger liability than some choose to acknowledge.

Bulls were actually better with Asik on the bench last year, the numbers back it up.

The stats might confirm what we already know about his offensive liabilities, but your last sentence is a nevertheless faulty conclusion. The obvious and massive flaw with this is that it doesn't take into account who he played with, you know, usually the bench mob. He was less likely to play with Rose, Boozer, and Rip, more offense-first guys. I'd be pretty surprised if guys like Taj, Brewer and CJ didn't have similar, if not quite equal, stat issues.

[McBulls]

Should the Bulls match Houston's offer?

Of course they should.

If they don't, they're screaming to the world that they're not really in this to win it.

You can argue the Hinrich thing however you want to, but not the Asik thing. Depending on the decision the Bulls make, they're either about winning or money.

It's truly the ultimate "telling point."

+1

AA

Gar has stated that personnel decisions will be based on basketball issues, not money-saving issues. There is no way to characterize letting Asik go for nothing as a basketball decision.

No, letting Asik go for nothing is flipping the bird at Chicago Bulls fans --- even the ones who are stupid enough to let the financial concerns of millionaire owners trump basketball common sense.

[Leslie Forman]

Unfortunately Angry Jimmy, the numbers don't matter.

If Omer Asik leaves the Bulls, the franchise will never be the same again. Nevermind the likelihood that matching this offer will cause us to lose Taj Gibson & trade Joakim Noah.

Asik is more important than them both.

Holy Jesus Christ I'm just gonna go and leave this thread for now.

[1rage]

and more advanced stats from last season:

And before you bark about how good Asik is defensively, hear us out. There's no denying Asik's talents on the defensive end. Of all NBA players with at least 250 defensive possessions against them last season, he ranked No. 1 allowing a mere 0.653 points per play, according to Synergy Sports data.

Hollinger:

That's a bit of an eye-of-the-beholder question. Asik's advanced stats support the subjective viewpoint that he's one of the five or 10 best defensive players in basketball, and defense in general tends to be wildly underrated in the free-agent market (although weirdly, not in the draft). He is also, objectively, a monstrous rebounder, with his 20.1 Rebound Rate ranking sixth in the NBA last season.

from the Rockets board:

i hope chicago matches. Asik .. are u f kidding me? Well yeah, hes tall and can dunk the occasional free dunk. Thats about it. I'd rather resurrect Luc longley

Are you familiar with terms like defense, rebounding, shot blocking? Asik had the 5th best Offensive rebounding rate, 16th best defensive rebounding rate, 7th in total rebounding rate, Advanced metrics show that he has a tremendous impact on team's defense. His team allowed 7.6 ppg less per 100 possessions when he is on the court and the Effective FG% Allowed went down dramatically from %46,4 to 41.5%. These on/off court defensive numbers are very impressive considering he was replacing a very good defender (Noah), not a defensive weaklink like Bargnani.

[tikay0036]

come on - they got to match now

They have no way to get a decent replacement centre

Matching does not mean that we must keep him all 3 years

Exactly!!

I believe in July 2013 there will be plenty of ways that we can get some "value" back by trading Asik - if necessary! Letting him go now, we get nothing!!

AA

The team he gets traded to will have the same 15 million 3rd year contract for a offensive caveman with good defense.

[StephenAA]

Hou must be pretty confident about Asik if they S&T their only C with real NBA playing timeto NY. Now the only C on the roster is a 3rd string 2nd rounder who played a total of 21 games. Hou must know something otherwise why agree to such a dunb@$$ trade?

Exactly!!

Either Morey knows something (D12??), or he is a very foolish man!!

AA

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

Unfortunately Angry Jimmy, the numbers don't matter.

If Omer Asik leaves the Bulls, the franchise will never be the same again. Nevermind the likelihood that matching this offer will cause us to lose Taj Gibson & trade Joakim Noah.

Asik is more important than them both.

You can't keep everyone on every team ever... everyone knows that. but a couple things you are ignoring

(1) it's only one year of big money, there's time to act
(2) we can pay the tax in the future
(3) by later trading either Asik, Taj or Noah, you get different kinds of value coming back. By ditching Asik now, you already shut out the possibility of getting value for him.

AAU, (1) we can essentially only trade him in year #2 before the big money year kicks in. I've learned in this thread that he can't be traded in year #1.

(2) Why pay the tax for a backup center, when there's a chance that Rose won't be up to par until year #2 of Asik's contract?

(3) We will have expirings to trade within the next few years (Deng & Boozer). Why go through all of this simply to trade him as an expiring, when we already have other expiring contracts?

[BullsGate]

Unfortunately Angry Jimmy, the numbers don't matter.

If Omer Asik leaves the Bulls, the franchise will never be the same again. Nevermind the likelihood that matching this offer will cause us to lose Taj Gibson & trade Joakim Noah.

Asik is more important than them both.

Wow just wow...I'm speechless.

[StephenAA]

Several people here to quote, but in short.... you get Noah and Nazr guarding Dwight Howard for a full playoff series, and you will gain a greater appreciation for Asik.

Understatement of the year!!

AA

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

Unfortunately Angry Jimmy, the numbers don't matter.

If Omer Asik leaves the Bulls, the franchise will never be the same again. Nevermind the likelihood that matching this offer will cause us to lose Taj Gibson & trade Joakim Noah.

Asik is more important than them both.

Wow just wow...I'm speechless.

Holy Jesus Christ I'm just gonna go and leave this thread for now.

I should be a d*ck & go through this thread to copy the multiple posts of mine that I argued AGAINST matching this offer, but I will be nice & simply tell you guys that I didn't think I needed green font .

If you followed this thread, you would know that .

[bad knees]

Let me put it this way:

Would the Knicks match Asik in the Bulls' situation?

The Heat?

The Lakers?

The Nets?

The Clippers?

The Mavs?

You all know darn well that the answer to every question above is an emphatic "yes."

If the Bulls don't match Asik, it will say that our ownership does not really want to play with the big boys of the NBA.

[ChicagoStrong]

I should be a d*ck & go through this thread to copy the multiple posts of mine that I argued AGAINST matching this offer, but I will be nice & simply tell you guys that I didn't think I needed green font .

If you followed this thread, you would know that .

It's good though.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

[ryannik09]

and more advanced stats from last season:

Hollinger:

That's a bit of an eye-of-the-beholder question. Asik's advanced stats support the subjective viewpoint that he's one of the five or 10 best defensive players in basketball, and defense in general tends to be wildly underrated in the free-agent market (although weirdly, not in the draft). He is also, objectively, a monstrous rebounder, with his 20.1 Rebound Rate ranking sixth in the NBA last season.

Way to cheery pick from the article...The next paragraph....

Asik is a terrible offensive player, however, with bad hands, poor touch and a proclivity for illegal screens. Advanced stats seem to indicate that he takes away almost as much with his offense as he does with his defense -- but that overall he's a plus, even compared to the league average.

[StephenAA]

Don't be ridiculous. None of the big men available are enough of an offensive upgrade to make any real impact there.

Luol Deng is average-ish on offense, and elite on defense.

Kevin Durant is elite on offense, average-ish on defense.

Individual defense is simply not as valuable as individual offense.

I agree with this Tong, but you're still wrong about not wanting to match Asik.

AA