Jimmer Fredette

[kevin44]

Does anyone really think he can become an NBA point guard? They drafted him to come off the bench & knock down 3's. Now they want to turn him into a pg. What the hell. Looking at his college stats he averaged 4.3 assists a game, but 3.5 turnovers a game.

[SacKingZZZ]

He's got vision, but this team needs his shooting more than anything. Turning him into a PG would be great for him but to me it so seems like a move where you develop a player and then watch him eventually utilize that improvement on another team because there are just too many bodies and not enough years on the rookie contract.

[pillwenney]

He has the vision, but not the handles/quickness to really do it. And that kind of makes the vision useless.

[kevin44]

I can't recall my shooting guards that turn into even decent point guards. He averaged almost 29 points a game & that's what got him drafted. PG is the most important position on a team in my opinion. Yes you can win without one, but I can't see this working out for us.

[SacKingZZZ]

He has the vision, but not the handles/quickness to really do it. And that kind of makes the vision useless.

You can work on handles, vision is something that most players either have, or they don't. Plenty of "slow" PG's have made a great living at PG as well. If you've got vision, you've got a chance. I just really don't see how another pick and roll guard is going to help this team. It will certainly help Jimmer though.

[SacKingZZZ]

I can't recall my shooting guards that turn into even decent point guards. He averaged almost 29 points a game & that's what got him drafted. PG is the most important position on a team in my opinion. Yes you can win without one, but I can't see this working out for us.

If you have a top talent who can create as well (Evans/Cousins?) and use a motion based system (Petrie/Kings?), plenty of SG's have survived at PG because of their shooting ability. Steve Kerr managed to play 15 years in the NBA for a reason. Derek Fisher is another prime example. Look at what happened in Golden State when they tried to turn him into a PG. Soon as he went back to spot shooter he's back in the limelight. Somebody get Phil Jackson on the phone.

[sacking123]

It won't work out for him at PG for long stretches IMO, but what he really needs to work on is defense.
Unless he improves in that area we won't be seeing near enough of him in games.
I feel Jimmer is an important piece moving forward due to DMC and Robinson. He should get plenty of open looks in the future, but as I said if he doesn't improve defensively he might not get that opportunity to knock those shots down.

[KF10]

I have doubts that Jimmer will become a true PG but he should be somewhere near the lines of Bibby where he played with Sacramento (where he isn't the "PG", more of scoring and a supplement ball handler).

[pillwenney]

He has the vision, but not the handles/quickness to really do it. And that kind of makes the vision useless.

You can work on handles, vision is something that most players either have, or they don't. Plenty of "slow" PG's have made a great living at PG as well. If you've got vision, you've got a chance. I just really don't see how another pick and roll guard is going to help this team. It will certainly help Jimmer though.

But how many have come in with shoddy handles and improved them enough? Jimmer can't penetrate right now. That's bad news for any kind of PG.

[Krle_12]

I can't recall my shooting guards that turn into even decent point guards. He averaged almost 29 points a game & that's what got him drafted. PG is the most important position on a team in my opinion. Yes you can win without one, but I can't see this working out for us.

PG is the most overrated position is basketball. That is of course dependant on what sort of offence you are running.

MANY more championship teams have had a supplementary ball hander at PG who could provide deep shooting. Fisher is a classic example. Mario Chalmers is the most recent one added to that group. If you go back to the Chicago championships it was the likes of Harper, Armstrong, Paxson and Kerr playing that role.

This team does not need a true PG if we actually had a coach who would play to the strengths of our best players, the last thing this team would be looking for is a true PG. All we would need out of that positions is some supplementary ball handling, long range shooting and defence. Both Tyreke and DeMarcus do NOT need a PG to create for them because they are both more than capable of doing it themselves. A PG on this team should be playing off those guys and not "running the show"! If this team was coached by someone like Phil Jackson, Rick Adelman, Gregg Popovich, Pat Riley et al the talk of PG needing a true PG would be irrelevant because they would realise that in the right system and offensive structure both Cousins and Evans can initiate the offence. Hell even Chuck Hayes can pass the ball well from the high post.

I would have thought that a dominant big man was a far more important commodity in the NBA than a PG.

[SacKingZZZ]

He has the vision, but not the handles/quickness to really do it. And that kind of makes the vision useless.

You can work on handles, vision is something that most players either have, or they don't. Plenty of "slow" PG's have made a great living at PG as well. If you've got vision, you've got a chance. I just really don't see how another pick and roll guard is going to help this team. It will certainly help Jimmer though.

But how many have come in with shoddy handles and improved them enough? Jimmer can't penetrate right now. That's bad news for any kind of PG.

I wouldn't go as far as to say his handles are shoddy. He's not bad at getting to the rim either, but I just don't think his ability or lack thereof to penetrate defenses should be a problem at all for this team. I still don't get it, they have Evans, Thornton, Cousins, why the hell do they want Fredette to penetrate and become a PG?! If Evans is going to work out that's exactly what you don't want. You want someone to open lanes for him off the ball. This entire organization needs to wake up here. Although I still agree that trying to develop Fredette into a PG and at least getting him to work in that direction will make him a much better player long term. I just want to see this squad use these players for what they are now, because more than a few of them do fill the current needs of this team. Oh well.

[SacKingZZZ]

I can't recall my shooting guards that turn into even decent point guards. He averaged almost 29 points a game & that's what got him drafted. PG is the most important position on a team in my opinion. Yes you can win without one, but I can't see this working out for us.

PG is the most overrated position is basketball. That is of course dependant on what sort of offence you are running.

MANY more championship teams have had a supplementary ball hander at PG who could provide deep shooting. Fisher is a classic example. Mario Chalmers is the most recent one added to that group. If you go back to the Chicago championships it was the likes of Harper, Armstrong, Paxson and Kerr playing that role.

This team does not need a true PG if we actually had a coach who would play to the strengths of our best players, the last thing this team would be looking for is a true PG. All we would need out of that positions is some supplementary ball handling, long range shooting and defence. Both Tyreke and DeMarcus do NOT need a PG to create for them because they are both more than capable of doing it themselves. A PG on this team should be playing off those guys and not "running the show"! If this team was coached by someone like Phil Jackson, Rick Adelman, Gregg Popovich, Pat Riley et al the talk of PG needing a true PG would be irrelevant because they would realise that in the right system and offensive structure both Cousins and Evans can initiate the offence. Hell even Chuck Hayes can pass the ball well from the high post.

I would have thought that a dominant big man was a far more important commodity in the NBA than a PG.

And these are all reasons why Jimmer should be fine in the league. If Bibby can be used the way he was with the Kings, Fredette should be fine. I just hope if Smarts pick and roll dominance continues that it either surprisingly works or when it doesn't, he pulls back a little on it and focuses on pretty much the only strategy that has worked in the last 2 years, off ball, spread motion offense.

[pillwenney]

I wouldn't go as far as to say his handles are shoddy. He's not bad at getting to the rim either, but I just don't think his ability or lack thereof to penetrate defenses should be a problem at all for this team. I still don't get it, they have Evans, Thornton, Cousins, why the hell do they want Fredette to penetrate and become a PG?! If Evans is going to work out that's exactly what you don't want. You want someone to open lanes for him off the ball. This entire organization needs to wake up here. Although I still agree that trying to develop Fredette into a PG and at least getting him to work in that direction will make him a much better player long term. I just want to see this squad use these players for what they are now, because more than a few of them do fill the current needs of this team. Oh well.

He's very bad at getting to the rim--particularly for a guy who is guarded up close 28 feet away from the basket. There were many times last year when his man was right up on him several feet behind the 3 point line and he was getting a screen, and he still couldn't turn the corner.

I'd like Jimmer to be able to penetrate, because if he can't then we used a #10 pick on **** Steve Kerr. Jimmer's not going to suddenly lose his outside shot if he develops into a solid all around player. But we do still need somebody that can distribute shots and opportunities to teammates while also spreading the floor. Jimmer has decent (not great, but solid enough) court vision, but that's mostly useless if you can't get the defense off balance.

And these are all reasons why Jimmer should be fine in the league. If Bibby can be used the way he was with the Kings, Fredette should be fine. I just hope if Smarts pick and roll dominance continues that it either surprisingly works or when it doesn't, he pulls back a little on it and focuses on pretty much the only strategy that has worked in the last 2 years, off ball, spread motion offense.

I feel like people overestimate just how off the ball Bibby was in his hey day here. He still had and used his many more pure PG skills pretty often. He wasn't John Stockton, but he wasn't Ben Gordon either. He still ran a lot of pick n' roll, and especially in his younger years, penetrated whenever the defense dictated it. And he was able to do so, and that was important to the team's success.

[SacKingZZZ]

He can penetrate, and his ball handling is not "shoddy" still. He was a victim of some of the sh#ttiest screen setting PF's in the league. Hayes is pretty much the only player that can set a decent screen on this team. Fast forward to 2:02 and keep watching. First you'll see a screen from Hickson, followed by Hayes. What not to do, and what to do. Screen setting is an extremely important aspect of that part of the game unless you are a Russel Westbrook or Tyreke Evans freak specimen type.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VoQ_0M730M[/youtube]

As it goes on you'll notice how Jimmer is used more and more as a spot shooter. He's not a true PG now, but this is how he can help this team and right now he'd help it more as that, than a true PG as Krle_12 mentioned above.

[pillwenney]

He can penetrate, and his ball handling is not "shoddy" still. He was a victim of some of the sh#ttiest screen setting PF's in the league. Hayes is pretty much the only player that can set a decent screen on this team. Fast forward to 2:02 and keep watching. First you'll see a screen from Hickson, followed by Hayes. What not to do, and what to do. Screen setting is an extremely important aspect of that part of the game unless you are a Russel Westbrook or Tyreke Evans freak specimen type.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VoQ_0M730M[/youtube]

As it goes on you'll notice how Jimmer is used more and more as a spot shooter. He's not a true PG now, but this is how he can help this team and right now he'd help it more as that, than a true PG as Krle_12 mentioned above.

Yeah, or Isaiah Thomas, or Beno Udrih, or John Salmons, or pretty much any other wing that handled a lot of the ballhandling duties for the Kings in the last several years, who had the same guys setting screens, and were much more capable of penetrating than Jimmer. Time and again last year, he got caught picking up his dribble in the middle of the lane. He only penetrated effectively when his defender was way off balance.

Not to mention, he mostly played with Hayes throughout the second half of the year.

[SacKingZZZ]

It's still comparing different players entirely. Beno got his contract based on his ability to penetrate and by his own standards he's a true pick and roll guard so because Beno can get to the rim better that Fredette it means what exactly? Beno complained about not being used in the pick and roll enough when he was here. Salmons is the same way, paid for his ability to create offense in the paint but in terms of shooting potential Fredette trumps both by a landslide.

My entire point is that Jimmer isn't a pick and roll guard. I think he could be decent in time though. What are we not getting here? This is a team with Tyreke Evans, Marcus Thornton, and Demarcus Cousins, why in the heck do you want Jimmer Fredette penetrating? If he's at least adequate at it he'll be fine and I foresee him becoming at least that. He still effectively got into the middle of the paint plenty of times and if he can finish with the jumpers and maybe pick up a floater along the way he'll be just fine. But if this team drafted him based on his ability to penetrate then they need to check their own heads, both in regards to this teams needs and their ability to judge talent. This teams spacing for a good chunk of the year was beyond anything previous guards on this team ever dealt with, don't dare forget how bad simplistic aspects of the game were for this team through the first half of the season and even beyond.

I guess these are all the same questions you could ask about this franchise as a whole. You have Tyreke Evans so you stock up players like Terrence Williams and John Salmons around him. Players that basically provide the same things. Then you fill your frontcourt around Cousins with JJ Hickson, Thomas Robinson, and Jason Thompson over the last two years. There is a reason this team looks so unbalanced and unless the idea is to move some of those pieces then it won't work unless some of those players learn to do things they aren't known for, or they take a step back in their own games to help make it work. Realistically both have to happen for it to work and definitely both would have to happen for this team to be a threat to do anything.

[pillwenney]

It's still comparing different players entirely. Beno got his contract based on his ability to penetrate and by his own standards he's a true pick and roll guard so because Beno can get to the rim better that Fredette it means what exactly? Beno complained about not being used in the pick and roll enough when he was here. Salmons is the same way, paid for his ability to create offense in the paint but in terms of shooting potential Fredette trumps both by a landslide.

My entire point is that Jimmer isn't a pick and roll guard. I think he could be decent in time though. What are we not getting here? This is a team with Tyreke Evans, Marcus Thornton, and Demarcus Cousins, why in the heck do you want Jimmer Fredette penetrating? If he's at least adequate at it he'll be fine and I foresee him becoming at least that. He still effectively got into the middle of the paint plenty of times and if he can finish with the jumpers and maybe pick up a floater along the way he'll be just fine. But if this team drafted him based on his ability to penetrate then they need to check their own heads, both in regards to this teams needs and their ability to judge talent. This teams spacing for a good chunk of the year was beyond anything previous guards on this team ever dealt with, don't dare forget how bad simplistic aspects of the game were for this team through the first half of the season and even beyond.

I guess these are all the same questions you could ask about this franchise as a whole. You have Tyreke Evans so you stock up players like Terrence Williams and John Salmons around him. Players that basically provide the same things. Then you fill your frontcourt around Cousins with JJ Hickson, Thomas Robinson, and Jason Thompson over the last two years. There is a reason this team looks so unbalanced and unless the idea is to move some of those pieces then it won't work unless some of those players learn to do things they aren't known for, or they take a step back in their own games to help make it work. Realistically both have to happen for it to work and definitely both would have to happen for this team to be a threat to do anything.

It means that numerous players have been just fine getting to the basket even with the screen that Kings bigs have been setting in the last several years, so that's a completely invalid excuse for Jimmer.

He needs to learn to penetrate for the same reason you always talk about how other players are used. If he just spreads the floor and shoots, he'll be Boobie Gibson with worse defense. If he, however, develops real PG skills, and shows potential to use his outside shot to get defenses to overplay him and then use that to penetrate and make plays for others, then you've got a poor man's Nash. Not to mention, all of the guys you mentioned could stand to have some easier shots created for them.

I don't disagree generally about how the team is built though.

[SacKingZZZ]

It's still comparing different players entirely. Beno got his contract based on his ability to penetrate and by his own standards he's a true pick and roll guard so because Beno can get to the rim better that Fredette it means what exactly? Beno complained about not being used in the pick and roll enough when he was here. Salmons is the same way, paid for his ability to create offense in the paint but in terms of shooting potential Fredette trumps both by a landslide.

My entire point is that Jimmer isn't a pick and roll guard. I think he could be decent in time though. What are we not getting here? This is a team with Tyreke Evans, Marcus Thornton, and Demarcus Cousins, why in the heck do you want Jimmer Fredette penetrating? If he's at least adequate at it he'll be fine and I foresee him becoming at least that. He still effectively got into the middle of the paint plenty of times and if he can finish with the jumpers and maybe pick up a floater along the way he'll be just fine. But if this team drafted him based on his ability to penetrate then they need to check their own heads, both in regards to this teams needs and their ability to judge talent. This teams spacing for a good chunk of the year was beyond anything previous guards on this team ever dealt with, don't dare forget how bad simplistic aspects of the game were for this team through the first half of the season and even beyond.

I guess these are all the same questions you could ask about this franchise as a whole. You have Tyreke Evans so you stock up players like Terrence Williams and John Salmons around him. Players that basically provide the same things. Then you fill your frontcourt around Cousins with JJ Hickson, Thomas Robinson, and Jason Thompson over the last two years. There is a reason this team looks so unbalanced and unless the idea is to move some of those pieces then it won't work unless some of those players learn to do things they aren't known for, or they take a step back in their own games to help make it work. Realistically both have to happen for it to work and definitely both would have to happen for this team to be a threat to do anything.

It means that numerous players have been just fine getting to the basket even with the screen that Kings bigs have been setting in the last several years, so that's a completely invalid excuse for Jimmer.

He needs to learn to penetrate for the same reason you always talk about how other players are used. If he just spreads the floor and shoots, he'll be Boobie Gibson with worse defense. If he, however, develops real PG skills, and shows potential to use his outside shot to get defenses to overplay him and then use that to penetrate and make plays for others, then you've got a poor man's Nash. Not to mention, all of the guys you mentioned could stand to have some easier shots created for them.

I don't disagree generally about how the team is built though.

First of all, Beno and John have been getting the rim without screens for years because that's their NBA skill. They are SLASHERS. Jimmer is a SHOOTER. You could bring up Evans in comparison to Fredette, they are DIFFERENT PLAYERS.

Or he could be Steve Kerr. Boobie Gibson was pretty valuable to the Cavs when the had their offensive foundation intact. I would think the Kings think they have theirs intact considering they've been loading up on talented offensive players for the better part of 3-4 years.

We're basically saying the same thing at this point. I totally agree Fredette learning to play PG is way beyond the best thing for him as a player but him mastering the pick and roll but they need to start focusing on what's best for this team. This team could use a Boobie Gibson right now, but first it needs to identify how it's franchise players should play. I say look back at the last two seasons, see what seemed to work the best and made this team more competitive. It's pretty clear.

[SactownHrtBrks8]

I just hope he improves his ballhandling and he shows he can be a PG, because if he doesn't very good chance he is going to be another one of those college superstars who don't pan out

[blind prophet]

Jimmer is a unique fella, well at least to me. Just about every player comparison I can think of is not a perfect comparison, have not seen a guy like him before, with the good and the bad.

So let's break down his game a little.

Offensively he has the deepest range I can think of. Slightly deeper than Reggie Miller even. Getting his shot off at the NBA level has been hard, so what can he and the organization do to help with this?

-For starters when he is on the court the floor should be extended, and to do this you need an inside presence. Cuz is obviously a good scoring threat from the inside. He demands a double team often and crashes the boards. T Rob is an upgrade over JT on the boards so he will also demand full attention, is to be seen what he can do offensively but expect him to have to be guarded out there.

-Tyreke with the ball penetrating will demand a double team or key congestion, opening up Jimmer on occasion when the defense collapses. Thornton's outside shot is a definite threat so in certain offensive situations he extends the floor and adding Jimmer can really open the key up.

-Pick and roll plays have a good chance to work provided Jimmer can get his shot off. Cuz, JT, and T Rob should be able to hit a 15-18 foot jumper allowing Jimmer a decent chance to land a shot or one of those bigs. JT was oddly a little inconsistent with his jumper than he was in the past but expect it to return to normal.

-Jimmer developed a floater about mid season. He did not have that in his arsenal before. The problem is when he was pressured and drove or scrambled he was just as likely to turn the ball over as to get his floater off. But he did add that to his game so it is nice to see.

-So, IMO, we have a guy who has a elite talent with the deep shot, that needs to further develop to get that shot off, and a team that may be able to help him on rotations, and this talent can help keep defense honest on the inside. A massive amount of potential upside to keep an eye on.

-What else can the team do offensively? Well we have a full summer and pre season now. Practice form everyone on the team being able to recognize when Jimmer needs the ball, and for Jimmer how to get open, set up teammates etc. I expect huge improvements from both Jimmer and his teamates in playing with each other this year.

Defensively Jimmer has been a liability in the majority of scenarios we have seen on the court. Hard work can only do so much, this will most likely be a career issue with him.

How much faith do I have in Jimmer? I could see him being out of the league by next year, or scoring 20 pts a game within 2-3 years, I have no idea what will happen.