State of the Mavs's Payroll

[JES12]

First, Id like to thank JES12 for this awsome thread. REALLY appreciate you taking the time to write all of that out. Huge help for some of us that are just getting into the CBA.

After Researching some of this stuff. I have a few questions to ask.

1. When bidding on amnestied players. Does using an extention trigger somthing that im not aware of? I''m currious as to why they desided not to use the Odom TPE in the case of Chris Kaman?

2. What is the advantage of using a TPE over just renounsing it and using cap space instead?

3. Since the TPE came from a trade. We could have used it without a S & T correct? Kaman should have just became another peice of the lamar trade, right?

Thank you in advance for helping me understand this stuff.

Updated my questions in light of the mavericks already signing Kaman without using the TPE

#1) I don't think i understand your 1st question.
#2) Use the TPE allows us to stay over the cap and have our MLE, BAE and bird rights. The flip side, is we would not be able to win any amnestied players.
#3) No. The Hornets would have to S&T him. That means we would have to given them something to entice their help (i.e., a 2nd round pick or something).

[cs hauser]

$20.9M Dirk
$8.4M Marion
$8.0M Kaman
$3.1M Vince
$2.9M Jones
$2.3M Collison
$2.2M Roddy
$2.1M Brand
$1.3M Dojo
$1.0M Wright
$1.0M Cunningham


That's $53.2 million for 11 players. That means the Mavs can spend $4.8 million to acquire the 12th man in free agency... correct?

The Mavs need an athletic shooting guard who can also be a threat from behind the arc. O.J. Mayo makes the most sense for this team, but I don't think Rick Carlisle wants a potential cancer in the locker room.

[sweet daddy]

I'm feeling very bi-polar right now. As discouraged as I was a few days ago ...

[Soupman]

If we get Scola and Delonte resigned, Donnie needs some kind of award.

[DMavs412]

#1) I don't think i understand your 1st question.
#2) Use the TPE allows us to stay over the cap and have our MLE, BAE and bird rights. The flip side, is we would not be able to win any amnestied players.
#3) No. The Hornets would have to S&T him. That means we would have to given them something to entice their help (i.e., a 2nd round pick or something).

Thanks for the answers on 2 and 3. Makes sense now. On the first 1. I was questioning Donnie's logic as to why he chose not to use the Odom exception to sign Kaman since it would have fit his salary.But, as you explained we would have to have given up something in order to do a S&T with the Hornets. So, I'm guessing Donnie's logic was just to sign him with cap space in order to avoid the S&T? If there is another reason behind not using the TPE from Odom I would like to know what it was.

[DBoys]

I am basing my info on the official transaction page:
http://www.nba.com/news/transactions/2012_13/

FYI the "official" transaction page, isn't.

Do you have a better resource? If so, I would love to know what it is.

I don't know of any one place that provides precise details like you want. But I know that particular site is just someone blogging, sometimes making mistakes (at times big ones), and not speaking for the NBA in any official capacity at all. What's written there is a nice running log, but it isn't gospel as to dates, or even events.

[JES12]

You do realize that it is not a blog or someone blogging and that it is only released after the buisness day after the transactions have occured, right?

[DBoys]

You do realize that it is not a blog or someone blogging and that it is only released after the buisness day after the transactions have occured, right?

Not exactly. You might not want to call it a blog, but my point is that it's someone simply compiling a list, probably by perusing wire reports, NBA article compilations like hoopshype or hoopsworld or real GM runs, and other internet sites.

The most important point is, whoever it is, they clearly don't even have access to the NBA's official transactions. So if you're taking it as "official" in any way, you're making a mistake.

[JES12]

You do realize that it is not a blog or someone blogging and that it is only released after the buisness day after the transactions have occured, right?

Not exactly. You might not want to call it a blog, but my point is that it's someone simply compiling a list, probably by perusing wire reports, NBA article compilations like hoopshype or hoopsworld or real GM runs, and other internet sites.

The most important point is, whoever it is, they clearly don't even have access to the NBA's official transactions. So if you're taking it as "official" in any way, you're making a mistake.

But you missed my point. Those transactions are not listed until it becomes final. Hoopshype and hoopsworld are blog sites that get their info from reports. NBA.com does not list info there if it is not official.

Calling it a blog or bad information is quite a stretch. However, you can can provide better info, by all means....tell me.

[DMavs412]

#1) I don't think i understand your 1st question.
#2) Use the TPE allows us to stay over the cap and have our MLE, BAE and bird rights. The flip side, is we would not be able to win any amnestied players.
#3) No. The Hornets would have to S&T him. That means we would have to given them something to entice their help (i.e., a 2nd round pick or something).

Thanks for the answers on 2 and 3. Makes sense now. On the first 1. I was questioning Donnie's logic as to why he chose not to use the Odom exception to sign Kaman since it would have fit his salary.But, as you explained we would have to have given up something in order to do a S&T with the Hornets. So, I'm guessing Donnie's logic was just to sign him with cap space in order to avoid the S&T? If there is another reason behind not using the TPE from Odom I would like to know what it was.

guess this is irrelevent now with the brand bid.

[DBoys]

JES, I'm not sure why you're so defensive of that site, but when you say "NBA.com does not list info there if it is not official" you're simply wrong. It's apparent their sources are of the same caliber as those you noted, because the reliability of the info is comparable. It's littered with errors, and if you know the facts you can spot them. I think you're being misled by "nba.com" on the website.

I just perused it and here's several glaring examples where I know it's nonsense on their log, just off the top of my head:

July 6 - • Philadelphia waived forward Elton Brand, making him an unrestricted free agent.
(Fact: On July 6, Philly did not waive Brand. He did not become a UFA.)

Another:
July 12 - (Minnesota) Extended a qualifying offer to forward Nicolas Batum
(Fact: Nothing happened at all between Minny and Batum on July 12. And it wouldn't have been a "qualifying offer" if it had.)

Another:
July 12- Philadelphia waived forward Elton Brand.
(Fact: That did NOT happen on July 12.)

Another:
July 10 (Detroit) Named Kenny Jimenez entertainment manager for game entertainment performance teams.
(Fact: That's not even an NBA transaction to be reported to or by the league.)

[DBoys]

Let me add: if you want to use it, by all means do so. I'm certainly not instructing you on what you like. But if you have the impression that what is listed there is somehow passing along official information from NBA offices, or even getting their data from official league reports, that's not the case at all, and I thought you'd want to know.

I'd trust Patricia and her site's attention to detail far more than nba.com's compiler.
http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/nba-daily.html

[DMavs412]

JES12, when you get a chance if you could answer my cap question 2 posts back id really appreciate it. Even though it's irrelevent now, really eating me up inside not knowing.

Thanks. Also have a question for you on the (calderon for TPE) post. When you get a chance

[DBoys]

I was questioning Donnie's logic as to why he chose not to use the Odom exception to sign Kaman since it would have fit his salary.But, as you explained we would have to have given up something in order to do a S&T with the Hornets. So, I'm guessing Donnie's logic was just to sign him with cap space in order to avoid the S&T? If there is another reason behind not using the TPE from Odom I would like to know what it was.

Mavs chose correctly.

When the time came to sign Kaman, they had no TE (all exceptions were discarded in gaining cap space).

Prior to then, had they previously acquired Kaman by TE before finding out about Brand, they would have ended up in almost the same place had they gotten Kaman by TE prior to winning Brand ...except, they would have been worse off by having to expend some extra assets to get NO to do a s-n-t.

If someone else had gotten Brand, then they still could (and maybe would) have gotten Kaman by TE at that point.

[DMavs412]

When the time came to sign Kaman, they had no TE (all exceptions were discarded in gaining cap space).

Since they signed Kaman before they won any amnisted players. What happen to the Odom TPE? Why did they renounce it before they found out they won a amnisted player?

Thanks for the clarification.

[DBoys]

1 They signed Kaman after they were awarded Brand, not before.

2 The Odom TE was discarded (along with all other TEs and exceptions) to create cap room for Brand.

3 "Why did they renounce Odom TPE before they found out they won a amnisted player?" ...They didn't. They were awarded Brand with the Odom TE still in their possession, and by the rules had to clear space immediately and did so (discarding all TEs at that point, including Odom TE).

[Ruzious]

1 They signed Kaman after they were awarded Brand, not before.

?

[JES12]

Dboys,
I will conceed the discussion as I don't really care about nba.com enough to defend it. I stopped using Patricia's webstie years ago after both wrong and missing information in addition to it being difficult to navigate. But to each their own.

DMavs412,
I guess I missed what question is eating you. I thought I answered #2.

[JES12]

1 They signed Kaman after they were awarded Brand, not before.

?

That would be the logical order, but one of the links posted said Kaman signed Thursday morning. We won Brand Friday afternoon.

Not sure if it really matters now.

[DBoys]

JES, gotcha, no worries.

Ruz, Brand was awarded at 4 pm Friday. Kaman signed at about 5 pm Friday or shortly thereafter, as they had deliberately delayed that move until learning if their 2.1M bid on Brand would be enough (and require them to discard their exceptions).