Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 2)

[boomann21]

Thinking logically about all this, there is no way Dolan doesn't bring Lin back

The ramifications are just too much to deal with

Agreed. Especially because the negative consequences of this deal don't take place for another 2 years. There is time to make moves with Lin or other players if Dolan really doesn't want to pay the high tax.

Exactly. I'm trying to figure out why everyone just figures we are going to have to keep everybody together and pay the Luxury Tax. Players can be traded for expirings if we are not as successful as we envision. Or to a team with plenty cap space who's trying to get a Amare, Lin, Chandler, or Melo.

[bklynstoops]

There are good reasons to think about why somebody doesn't want Lin here.

-We already have Felton & Kidd, and you could make a case that they fit much better in our goal.
-Lin needs to still develop, we're clearly a win now team. Something's gotta give.

If people wanted support for the reason on not to match Lin those are two of them

your two reasons are incompatible.

Incompatible....but possible

not really. seriously, if this is a win now team, you match the offer regardless of how you feel about the negotiations. he's better than what you have and what you can currently get; in fact, he's the best thing that happened to our rudderless team last year. you overpay in a win now situation, not worry about tax implications two years from now.

this has nothing to do with winning from Dolan's perspective.

[Smokey9782]

Thinking logically about all this, there is no way Dolan doesn't bring Lin back

The ramifications are just too much to deal with

I want to agree with that, but Dolan is just an idiot sometimes.

I also think there is a small chance that this has something to do with CP3. I'm not trying to sound like Isola, and I have no idea how it's even possible, but to me that's the only way letting Lin go makes sense. If the Knicks can somehow end up with a team of CP3, Shump/JR, Melo, Amar'e and Tyson, they can then actually have a team that can beat the Heat, or anyone else for that matter.

[ibraheim718]

Lin does not make or break this team. STAT and Melo does.

The two guys that had us 7 games under .500 and cruising for a lottery pick? If that's the case we're going to be broken for a few years.

That's not my point.

The point of my last few posts is that when I and Others said basically what you just said. "STAT & Melo can not play together" & "Adding Kidd and Camby does not make this team a tittle contender". Do you know what was said back to us? "We are in win now mode" & "It's OK to let go of assets because we don't have time to develop them".

Jeremy Lin is a young player that has to be developed. That's falls in line with "It's OK to let go of assets because we don't have time to develop them". Why Is this not the same as before? That's what so mind boggling about this board. We chucked deuces to Landry for his contract, but Lin deserves his contract for playing 26 games, and before that was being cut from teams rosters?

An "underdeveloped" Lin saved the teams season... that's a fact.

And an "underdeveloped" Lin is a better player than Felton already... right now.

That's the thing you're missing... Lin right now is a better option for the team than Felton or Kidd.

I've been consistent. Gallinari and the other prospects we gave to denver were not more of an impact on the team than Carmelo.

Lin singlehandedly turns the season around... spares the reputation of Melo and Stat and the coach and the franchise. Helps Dolan rake in all sorts of money... while making peanuts in comparison. What is all that worth? In itself it's worth at the very least his first two years. Then if (and I'm pretty sure he will) he becomes the player he's already proven he can be especially if Stat and Melo go down with injury and leads the team to a deep run in the playoffs Dolan still makes money in that 3rd year.

[unabashedFan]

Dude, I'm asking you if you think Shumpert is deserving of a 15 million dollar 3rd year contract? Personally I think he's not worth it, neither is Lin. Carmelo was spot on with saying it was a ridiculous contract.

Lin has obviously alienated himself with signing the offer sheet.

What was Lin supposed to do? Tell Houston to f*ck off with their $25M and sign for what Felton signed? $10M? LOL. Give me a break.

As for the "ridiculous contract" comment, nobody comments on another person's money. Why do you think this is causing a mild ruckus in twittersphere.

[Jay10]

"While waiting on Knicks' decision on Lin, keep this in mind: a team with a $100M payroll will pay an extra $85M in luxury tax in '15..."

- david aldridge

"..And if that team in '15 has paid luxury tax the previous 3 years, it pays the higher "repeater" tax rate, and its lux tax would be $115M."

- david aldridge

"Those numbers assume this year's luxury tax threshold of $70M. That number may go up by '15 and would thus lower those estimates some."

- david aldridge

[Daggy]

Just FYI I'm saving every post saying "if lin is gone I'm gone" and putting it in my signature incase anyone tries to post after he leaves

Cool. Add mine.

x2

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

I'll be "gone", but I'll come post when Lin has a few monster games and Knicks are again fighting for a playoff spot.

BTW, I do NOT wish Knicks ill, I simply wish Lin to do well and I believe Knicks won't perform well if Lin is not matched.

[Besart19]

Thinking logically about all this, there is no way Dolan doesn't bring Lin back

The ramifications are just too much to deal with

I want to agree with that, but Dolan is just an idiot sometimes.

I also think there is a small chance that this has something to do with CP3. I'm not trying to sound like Isola, and I have no idea how it's even possible, but to me that's the only way letting Lin go makes sense. If the Knicks can somehow end up with a team of CP3, Shump/JR, Melo, Amar'e and Tyson, they can then actually have a team that can beat the Heat, or anyone else for that matter.

without Lin you have to gave up from Tyson to be able to make a deal for CP3

[Red Vines]

Knicks Summer League game starting in a few minutes, horrible to watch but probably a lot of Lin talk.

[boomann21]

"While waiting on Knicks' decision on Lin, keep this in mind: a team with a $100M payroll will pay an extra $85M in luxury tax in '15..."

- david aldridge

"..And if that team in '15 has paid luxury tax the previous 3 years, it pays the higher "repeater" tax rate, and its lux tax would be $115M."

- david aldridge

"Those numbers assume this year's luxury tax threshold of $70M. That number may go up by '15 and would thus lower those estimates some."

- david aldridge

Those numbers don's scare me and Dolan at all. Lin is a global phenomen and is worth every penny of said Luxury Tax. My pal Dolan will make triple that off of Lin before he has to pay a red cent.

[sinjz]

I read the first forty pages or so, then skipped through a bunch of pages, so I apologize if this has already been discussed in length.

Does keeping Lin negatively affect our ability to sign players or make trades in the next three years? I'm currently of the belief that it does NOT. I think we are are pretty much set as a team for the next three years REGARDLESS of whether we match Lin or not; We are capped out regardless. If that's the case, I don't see why there is any debate over this, we would need to match Lin.

Does this push us from MLE to a MMLE? If not, then it looks like the only difference on the basketball court would be Lin or some guy off the street. If that's the choice how do you not choose Lin? At worse, if he sucks we trade him for a 2nd rounder or something. At best he helps us go for a championship. If he's something in between, he's a trade chip.

Off court stuff - if you complain about the luxury tax, you can't ignore the fact he'll bring extra attention and cash to the club; probably MUCH more than what the luxury tax would cost.

So basically can somebody explain to me basketball management wise, why we aren't bringing him back.

[BayareaKnicks]

yeah but does going from 9 mil to 15 mil in the third year make that much of a difference in penalties? They are going to be over anyways. IF this is the case, then they were not gonna match from the very beginning.

[polarbears815]

Thinking logically about all this, there is no way Dolan doesn't bring Lin back

The ramifications are just too much to deal with

I want to agree with that, but Dolan is just an idiot sometimes.

I also think there is a small chance that this has something to do with CP3. I'm not trying to sound like Isola, and I have no idea how it's even possible, but to me that's the only way letting Lin go makes sense. If the Knicks can somehow end up with a team of CP3, Shump/JR, Melo, Amar'e and Tyson, they can then actually have a team that can beat the Heat, or anyone else for that matter.

We don't have the cap space to sign CP3. CP3 wants a max deal. So we'd have to somehow clear the cap space to do so by getting rid of someone like say Amare. That said, CP3, Shump, Melo, Tyson, and someone could probably compete for a title. The hard part will be getting rid of Amare. Lin would at least be an asset to package with Amare in order to get CP3. That I would have no problem with. But if we let Lin walk, we no longer have that asset to package Amare with. So if we get rid of Lin for nothing, I'd say our chances are pretty slim for getting CP3.

[Smoke24]

Thinking logically about all this, there is no way Dolan doesn't bring Lin back

The ramifications are just too much to deal with

Agreed. Especially because the negative consequences of this deal don't take place for another 2 years. There is time to make moves with Lin or other players if Dolan really doesn't want to pay the high tax.

Exactly. I'm trying to figure out why everyone just figures we are going to have to keep everybody together and pay the Luxury Tax. Players can be traded for expirings if we are not as successful as we envision. Or to a team with plenty cap space who's trying to get a Amare, Lin, Chandler, or Melo.

They can always trade him for parts before year 3 kicks in. Because it would suck losing him now, and not getting anything for him.

[Anotha Knicks fan]

An "underdeveloped" Lin saved the teams season... that's a fact.

And an "underdeveloped" Lin is a better player than Felton already... right now.

That's the thing you're missing... Lin right now is a better option for the team than Felton or Kidd.

I've been consistent. Gallinari and the other prospects we gave to denver were not more of an impact on the team than Carmelo.

Lin singlehandedly turns the season around... spares the reputation of Melo and Stat and the coach and the franchise. Helps Dolan rake in all sorts of money... while making peanuts in comparison. What is all that worth? In itself it's worth at the very least his first two years. Then if (and I'm pretty sure he will) he becomes the player he's already proven he can be especially if Stat and Melo go down with injury and leads the team to a deep run in the playoffs Dolan still makes money in that 3rd year.

It's amazing not everyone sees the same thing. I mean... wtf? It's crazy.

[XcalibuR]

"While waiting on Knicks' decision on Lin, keep this in mind: a team with a $100M payroll will pay an extra $85M in luxury tax in '15..."

- david aldridge

"..And if that team in '15 has paid luxury tax the previous 3 years, it pays the higher "repeater" tax rate, and its lux tax would be $115M."

- david aldridge

"Those numbers assume this year's luxury tax threshold of $70M. That number may go up by '15 and would thus lower those estimates some."

- david aldridge

lol wow, if only the Obama had as much power as David Stern.

[Smokey9782]

Thinking logically about all this, there is no way Dolan doesn't bring Lin back

The ramifications are just too much to deal with

I want to agree with that, but Dolan is just an idiot sometimes.

I also think there is a small chance that this has something to do with CP3. I'm not trying to sound like Isola, and I have no idea how it's even possible, but to me that's the only way letting Lin go makes sense. If the Knicks can somehow end up with a team of CP3, Shump/JR, Melo, Amar'e and Tyson, they can then actually have a team that can beat the Heat, or anyone else for that matter.

without Lin you have to gave up from Tyson to be able to make a deal for CP3

I didn't say it would happen. I don't think there's any way it can. I just think Dolan is a mad man and has convinced himself that the impossible is possible. When he wants something, no matter how illogical, he goes after it.

[K_ick_God]

Thinking logically about all this, there is no way Dolan doesn't bring Lin back

The ramifications are just too much to deal with

Let's pray. But the way this trade is being rushed up ....

[king billing]

Dude, I'm asking you if you think Shumpert is deserving of a 15 million dollar 3rd year contract? Personally I think he's not worth it, neither is Lin. Carmelo was spot on with saying it was a ridiculous contract.

Lin has obviously alienated himself with signing the offer sheet.

What was Lin supposed to do? Tell Houston to f*ck off with their $25M and sign for what Felton signed? $10M? LOL. Give me a break.

As for the "ridiculous contract" comment, nobody comments on another person's money. Why do you think this is causing a mild ruckus in twittersphere.

So you hate on Carmelo and not Lin. interesting stuff...

Wag the dog

[polarbears815]

I read the first forty pages or so, then skipped through a bunch of pages, so I apologize if this has already been discussed in length.

Does keeping Lin negatively affect our ability to sign players or make trades in the next three years? I'm currently of the belief that it does NOT. I think we are are pretty much set as a team for the next three years REGARDLESS of whether we match Lin or not; We are capped out regardless. If that's the case, I don't see why there is any debate over this, we would need to match Lin.

Does this push us from MLE to a MMLE? If not, then it looks like the only difference on the basketball court would be Lin or some guy off the street. If that's the choice how do you not choose Lin? At worse, if he sucks we trade him for a 2nd rounder or something. At best he helps us go for a championship. If he's something in between, he's a trade chip.

Off court stuff - if you complain about the luxury tax, you can't ignore the fact he'll bring extra attention and cash to the club; probably MUCH more than what the luxury tax would cost.

So basically can somebody explain to me basketball management wise, why we aren't bringing him back.

Bolding the most important part. Lin would be useful as a trading chip because of his marketability even if we didn't think he was the long-term answer. That's why it makes no sense to just let him walk.