Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3)

[lleepar]

Below are a couple tweets today from the ESPN stringer who talked to Felton on July 4th. I'm less troubled by the probability that Lin will go to Houston than I am the way it was handled. The only guidance the Knicks gave to Lin and his agent was Grunwald's answer to reporters who were talking about the potential for all sorts of max $40M offers from multiple teams. Grunwald flatly answered something to the effect (didn't look up exact quote) that he couldn't foresee any circumstances that Jeremy Lin wouldn't be a Knick next season.

If that attitude had changed internally and there was a ceiling on the offers that the Knicks would match, I'd have felt a whole lot better if the Knicks had made that clear before sending Lin out to look for offers while they were auditioning other PGs. Even if the Knicks had come to him and said we can put this to bed for $15M for four years if he'll sign tomorrow, or he could take his chances with larger offers that the Knicks may not match ... well, it would seem as if they really wanted to keep him in the first place. Absent that, it gives rise to the types of speculations like Horst is making on Twitter when he's talking about Lin's contract situation not working out.

Zachary Horst (@zd183) - 7/15/12 5:37 PM

Felton knew he would be a Knick almost 2 weeks ago. I don't think that tidbit should be disregarded. #Knicks
____________

Zachary Horst (@zd183) - 7/15/12 5:50 PM

@RobTerj and now it isn't working out. the Knicks should have made an offer. The whole time they may have been planning this.
.

[Sky_Knicks]

At least Melo wanted to be a Knick. The Knicks was the only place he wanted to be. Unlike Lin who is in Houston.

Melo is looking out for the Knicks.

Bad post after bad post. Take a 5 minute break at least.

[knickspower]

The "Melo fans" -- whatever that means (we're all Knicks fans so that distinction is so stupid to me) --

but to those who love Melo --

Y'all should very seriously reconsider your position. Lin leaving will spell the end of Melo's happy tenure in NY. Fans are already suspicious of him. After his comments, and the fact that he didn't beg the Knicks to keep Lin, it is going to be hell for Melo.

Think about it -- I'm ready to hate Melo. I'm a completely positive fan who hopes against hope and believes in the team.

Whether you like it or not, Melo is going to get the blame for Lin, the fans at MSG are going to be SALTY, depressed and looking for an enemy. That enemy will definitely be Melo. He is going to get killed. Booed, harassed and hated. He will be miserable.

You KNOW this is true.

So whether you AGREE with it or not -- this Lin decision is crucial to Melo's success.

Without Lin, Melo's tenure becomes instant misery. They'll boo Felton too. Some Amar'e. But Melo will get the huge amount of blame. He'll be the focal point -- he'll be embarrassed in his hometown.

I promise you.

i am sorry but that is dumb, with all do respect if the team is winning fan will forget who lin is. it all about winning for me as a fan period not one player.

[blackbishop]

People make it seem like Lin is the reason we made the playoffs when evidence suggests the firing of Dantoni is the reason we made the playoffs.

After that great 7 game run , we went on a 6 game losing streak WITH LIN.

Dantoni is fired.

We go on a 6-1 great streak with LIN and the whole gang with woodson at the helm. LIN and Amare are out.

We still go 12-5 with a limp davis and bibby as our point guards.

12-5 over an 82 game season is about 58 wins which isnt bad. Kidd/felton is probably alot better than davis/bibby i would think.

Lin is important and I really do want him back because of the mystery he provides (maybe he is the piece that gets us over the hump), but he is not the end all and be all.

AND truth be told, he has been doing the knicks dirty since he got hurt.

1) Initially saying he was gonna try and make it back in 4 weeks then reversing field and talking about he will be back when he is ready.
2) He practices and says he is "only 85%" and that he cant play IN DA PLAYOFFS. Really?

Since it was against the heat, ok maybe he felt he needed to be completely healthy but in actuality the likelihood is his handlers told him to stay out cause if he looked bad against the heat, he would lose money.

3) Refusing to participate on the select team cause he didnt have a contract, but Like I said griffin just waited til his contract was done and participated (which he signed same time lin got his offer sheet).

4) Lin is told knicks will match so somehow some way he signs a new deal that allows him to make even more money.

Now the knicks were honest with him, but for some reason he is not honest with the knicks?

The worst part is the knicks gave him the chance to get to this point and he is F**king them over for the team that cut his butt for johnny flynn.

But hey melo is the bad person.

[ny41101]

At least Melo wanted to be a Knick. The Knicks was the only place he wanted to be. Unlike Lin who is in Houston.

Melo is looking out for the Knicks.

Lol Melo wanted to be a Knick so bad that he Let Dolan know he was willing to go to Jersey if they didnt trade for him cause he wanted that big fat 65 million dollar extension. If Melo comes as a free agent Linsanity wouldnt have happened at least not in NY because we would have the chips to trade for CP3. Im not tryyng to take a shot at Melo cause who wouldnt want the security of an extra 3 yrs 65 million with the lockout looming but lets not make him out to be a saint either. I dont blame Lin he did what every athlete would do in his situation get the most money he could.

[ag3]

Are we a SUBSTANTIALLY better team with Lin than without him?

We as fans talk about how it's only Dolan's money. This is America folks. What you eat don't make me shyt. I'm never going to tell another man how to spend his bread. With that being said, if we don't match Lin, it'll prove to us a couple of things.

1. His off court value to the franchise is not enough to cover for the expense of keeping him. That would mean that if he comes back, Dolan and the Knicks believe he's not likely to continue to increase the value of the franchise. Lin could have been our third string PG and if he didn't explode for that month, the stock would have remained static. In other words, just having Lin isn't enough to guarantee the Knicks unprecedented profits.

2. The Knicks do not believe he makes this team a much better team. Substantially better. If he doesn't improve the team in terms of wins, he doesn't improve the team fiscally either. Is that a fair assessment to make?

We don't know. What we do know is that Felton is just decent and not a difference maker. Lin could be a superstar or a flop. He has shown potential to be a superstar and if he plays out to that potential, it's the ONLY way the Knicks can be title contenders next year.

By not matching, we are taking a risk that he is the real deal. At worst he is a solid bench player and the Knicks are capped out for the next 3 years anyway, so who cares about the luxury tax.

Dolan doesn't care about the luxury tax. He makes a killing off the Knicks. If he decided not to match Lin, it's because of his ego. Not because of the tax.

[Red Vines]

There are only a handful of irreplaceable/untradeable players in the league, none are on the Knicks.

[clipse375]

The "Melo fans" -- whatever that means (we're all Knicks fans so that distinction is so stupid to me) --

but to those who love Melo --

Y'all should very seriously reconsider your position. Lin leaving will spell the end of Melo's happy tenure in NY. Fans are already suspicious of him. After his comments, and the fact that he didn't beg the Knicks to keep Lin, it is going to be hell for Melo.

Think about it -- I'm ready to hate Melo. I'm a completely positive fan who hopes against hope and believes in the team.

Whether you like it or not, Melo is going to get the blame for Lin, the fans at MSG are going to be SALTY, depressed and looking for an enemy. That enemy will definitely be Melo. He is going to get killed. Booed, harassed and hated. He will be miserable.

You KNOW this is true.

So whether you AGREE with it or not -- this Lin decision is crucial to Melo's success.

Without Lin, Melo's tenure becomes instant misery. They'll boo Felton too. Some Amar'e. But Melo will get the huge amount of blame. He'll be the focal point -- he'll be embarrassed in his hometown.

I promise you.

i am sorry but that is dumb, with all do respect if the team is winning fan will forget who lin is. it all about winning for me as a fan period not one player.

I agree with you Ballboy.

[Greenie]

hating on JR is just anger mis directed on the wrong person

there is nothing wrong with what he said

lin is getting paid 25 M based on 20-30 game piece of work, whereas others have to put in years of play to get their big time payday (for example, consider a late first rd pick guy who has to play out his standard rookie contract b4 being able to get the big deal)

[Shemy]

At least Melo wanted to be a Knick. The Knicks was the only place he wanted to be. Unlike Lin who is in Houston.

Melo is looking out for the Knicks.

Stfu

If melo cared bout the Knicks and "winning" he would've risked it and signed with us as a FA

Or at the very least asked Denver to lower their asking price so that we could at the very least had some trade assets manuever round to try n go and win now mode

Ppl are so delusional into thinking Melo wanted to be here from the start ever since he went on the trade block....he would've very easily gone into Brooklyn to raise his and his wifes celebrity profile

[gethigh]

Lin should have been happy with the first deal the Rockets offered him. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. Thinking the Knicks would match any offer he gets greedy and signs for a HUGE deal while thinking the Knicks will match and he can make even more money on endorsements.

[Synciere]

To bring some context into this OVERPAID argument (ignoring the poison pill--this is just from grumblings around the league). Here is a list of players getting paid between 6-9 million. I personally don't know if I'd trade Lin for any of them:

Amir Johnson
Kyle Lowry
Tayshaun Prince
Rodney Stuckey
Charlie Villanueva
Thad Young
Jeff Green
Omer Asik
Luke Walton
Andy Varejao
Glen Davis
Jason Richardson
JJ Reddick
Trevor Ariza
Andray Blatche
Drew Gooden
Beno Udrih
Samuel Dalembert
Desagna Diop
Tyrus Thomas
Devin Harris
Shawn Marion
Brendan Haywood
Al Harrington
Wilson Chandler
Aaron Afflalo
Andris Biedrins
Mike Conley
Wesley Matthews
Metta World Peace
Kendrick Perkins
Josh Childress
Marcin Gortat
Channing Frye
Marvin Williams
Mo Williams
Paul Millsap
Marcus Thorton
Francisco Garcia

All of the bolded players healthy IMO have more basketball value to a team than Lin would. Not including a discussion of stock prices or the Chinese, I'd pat the Knicks on the back if they traded Lin for Lowry, Millsap, or Conley, especially Lowry or Conley as they are clearly better point guards and better fits on this team.

Edit: In addition, the majority of those contracts were handed out in a CBA that was nowhere near as punitive. Lastly, team fit is a big key, as Lin has already shown he struggles with our best two players. Even if he were worth his contract, which is very different than any player listed here in that they don't have a 200% third year kicker, you can't look at things in a vacuum. OJ Mayo has value around the league, but the Grizzlies let him go because his value exceeded what he could give them on their team.

[Sky_Knicks]

At least Melo wanted to be a Knick. The Knicks was the only place he wanted to be. Unlike Lin who is in Houston.

Melo is looking out for the Knicks.

Melo used the Nets into forcing the Knicks into giving up every possible asset to get him, then he met with Dolan personally in the middle of the season when both teams were in a playoff race just to personally confirm that his coffers were empty.....then he signed for the maximum allowable contract..... and even now to this day he is giving his input on personnel decisions that would give himself the most glory and the easiest path to achieve his selfish goals

Melo is the man!!!

[clipse375]

Are we a SUBSTANTIALLY better team with Lin than without him?

We as fans talk about how it's only Dolan's money. This is America folks. What you eat don't make me shyt. I'm never going to tell another man how to spend his bread. With that being said, if we don't match Lin, it'll prove to us a couple of things.

1. His off court value to the franchise is not enough to cover for the expense of keeping him. That would mean that if he comes back, Dolan and the Knicks believe he's not likely to continue to increase the value of the franchise. Lin could have been our third string PG and if he didn't explode for that month, the stock would have remained static. In other words, just having Lin isn't enough to guarantee the Knicks unprecedented profits.

2. The Knicks do not believe he makes this team a much better team. Substantially better. If he doesn't improve the team in terms of wins, he doesn't improve the team fiscally either. Is that a fair assessment to make?

We don't know. What we do know is that Felton is just decent and not a difference maker. Lin could be a superstar or a flop. He has shown potential to be a superstar and if he plays out to that potential, it's the ONLY way the Knicks can be title contenders next year.

By not martching, we are taking a risk that he is the real deal. At worst he is a solid bench player and the Knicks are capped out for the next 3 years anyway, so who cares about the luxury tax.

Dolan doesn't care about the luxury tax. He makes a killing off the Knicks. If he decided not to match Lin, it's because of his ego. Not because of the tax.

Try telling Dolan that.

[Native]

Putting all the melodrama aside, the Knicks should sign Lin AND trade for Felton because they are valuable assets. These guys give us more pieces to trade when the opportunity arises. Everything else is noise in the system. Our roster wont look like this in three years no matter what happens so its not a matter of Luxury tax. Lin will either be traded by year three (if he doesnt pan out) or he'll be an all star (in which case no one will care about the final year of his deal

again, how is Jeremy Lin being paid $23million in the final 2 years of his contract an "Asset" ?

Hes a young PG that can play ball and is immesnsely marketable. So he has value. And players with value can be traded for other players that have value. So its better to keep him than let him walk for nothing.

Not clear?

[kNicksGmen]

At least Melo wanted to be a Knick. The Knicks was the only place he wanted to be. Unlike Lin who is in Houston.

Melo is looking out for the Knicks.

Melo used the Nets into forcing the Knicks into giving up every possible asset to get him, then he met with Dolan personally in the middle of the season when both teams were in a playoff race just to personally confirm that his coffers were empty.....then he signed for the maximum allowable contract..... and even now to this day he is giving his input on personnel decisions that would give himself the most glory and the easiest path to achieve his selfish goals

Melo is the man!!!

he helped out the team that drafted him and made him rich by getting them back a fair deal... pretty classy move imo. yet you'll find a way to twist it into melo being a bad guy.

what are these personnel decisions that melo was a part of? i could of sworn melo wanted the knicks to draft selby... yet the knicks drafted jorts instead that shows how much they care about his input.

[21shumpst]

People make it seem like Lin is the reason we made the playoffs when evidence suggests the firing of Dantoni is the reason we made the playoffs.

After that great 7 game run , we went on a 6 game losing streak WITH LIN.

Dantoni is fired.

We go on a 6-1 great streak with LIN and the whole gang with woodson at the helm. LIN and Amare are out.

We still go 12-5 with a limp davis and bibby as our point guards.

12-5 over an 82 game season is about 58 wins which isnt bad. Kidd/felton is probably alot better than davis/bibby i would think.

Lin is important and I really do want him back because of the mystery he provides (maybe he is the piece that gets us over the hump), but he is not the end all and be all.

AND truth be told, he has been doing the knicks dirty since he got hurt.

1) Initially saying he was gonna try and make it back in 4 weeks then reversing field and talking about he will be back when he is ready.
2) He practices and says he is "only 85%" and that he cant play IN DA PLAYOFFS. Really?

Since it was against the heat, ok maybe he felt he needed to be completely healthy but in actuality the likelihood is his handlers told him to stay out cause if he looked bad against the heat, he would lose money.

3) Refusing to participate on the select team cause he didnt have a contract, but Like I said griffin just waited til his contract was done and participated (which he signed same time lin got his offer sheet).

4) Lin is told knicks will match so somehow some way he signs a new deal that allows him to make even more money.

Now the knicks were honest with him, but for some reason he is not honest with the knicks?

The worst part is the knicks gave him the chance to get to this point and he is F**king them over for the team that cut his butt for johnny flynn.

But hey melo is the bad person.

And how do you know this exactly?

[Knicker23]

No one in their right mind is going to blame Melo for Lin KG, that is ridiculous.

You can take your anger out on JR and Melo all you want. How this has gone has nothing to do with either. Lin agreeing to force the Knicks to sign the offer sheet or lose him can't be blamed on either.

Remember how ridiculous it seemed to most people on this board when the consensus among casual fans was that Melo was going to kill linsanity? THe public loves feuds, and the media loves twisting things to make them as dramatic as possible. I guarantee Melo comes out of this looking like the bad guy. And we're not gonna storm out of the gate, cause the first 10 games of the season are when Felton plays his way into shape.

Even the stupid ones know Melo doesn't make the choice on whether the KNicks want to pay that $ to bring him back. And saying 'they probably asked Melo's opinion' doesn't work either. If they wanted him back, they'd bring him back regardless of whether Melo did or not.

I can see the media trying to twist things as you say.. especially if things go bad early... But Lin will be off in Houston and will be forgotten soon enough.. And you can only make a guy look soo good doing what Lin is doing.. "can't blame him for making money" "it's his first opportunity" etc etc - we get it.. Lin forcing the team to pay big bucks to retain him equates to Melo being the bad guy

As a guy that talks about Melo a lot, this is one situation that doesn't really involve him... To expect Melo to come out and support bringing Lin back, as if it was his money being spent to do so.. given the situation, would be idiotic... And if Lin is gone, i'd rather he say it's ridiculous and cut the bs than sugarcoat it.

[Realmatic]

exactly, basketball players aren't the most astute people in the world. Im pretty sure what JR said and what he meant to say are two different things.

Guys come from college, spend 4 years getting paid on a rookie deal, they paid the dues to get paid. Lin is going to get a 25 million dollar deal based off of a 30 game sample. What JR said isnt wrong, misguided yes, but def not wrong.

I want lin back so dont take it as a lin hating post.

[ITALIA17]

Frank Isola ‏@FisolaNYDN
J.R. Smith tells http://SI.com that Lin's contract could cause some chemistry issues in the locker room. Got to love J.R.'s honesty