Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3)

[Stannis]

@ Yao Ming trying to unite with Lin at Houston

[CoolKids]

everyone should take a 1 hour break and watch the season premier of "Breaking Bad".

10 pm.

Im on the finale of season 3. Hopefully i can find season 4 online because it isnt on netflix and catch up to this season

[Thugger HBC]

What's wrong with what he said?

Not going to lie, but I never liked SAS. He is annoying. In this article, I disagree with him. His Headline for one sucks:

Knicks must let Jeremy Lin go

He is just trying to get attention. Then he flowers his article with trying to give him some credit.

So you disagree with what he wrote or just the title of the article?

If it's the former, then you didn't read it.

Hate SAS all you want, but the article is a good one.

[Knicks_Fan2]

What's wrong with what he said?

Not going to lie, but I never liked SAS. He is annoying. In this article, I disagree with him. His Headline for one sucks:

Knicks must let Jeremy Lin go

He is just trying to get attention. Then he flowers his article with trying to give him some credit.

You realize editors--and not writers--draft the headlines, right?

[goshjosh]

[/quote]


and...........................

what was the average age on the celtics when they won it all? what was the average age on the heat last year? what does your statement mean?[/quote]

That's completely different. The Celtics aged well and had a big 4, and Heat have the big 3. You can't honestly tell me that Melo, Amare and Chandler are a big 3. Zero chemistry.

And just so you know, the Heat's avg. age was 27.5, and the Celt's avg. age was 26.8, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove.[/quote]

so your saying Melo, Amare. Tyson arent a big three......smh
maybe a under performing big three but none the less still a big 3[/quote]

Fine, we'll call them a big 3, but what good is an under performing big 3? Is an under performing big 3 going to win you a title? and if you think melo and amare will start to click this season then you're delusional...

[Synciere]

To bring some context into this OVERPAID argument (ignoring the poison pill--this is just from grumblings around the league). Here is a list of players getting paid between 6-9 million. I personally don't know if I'd trade Lin for any of them:

Amir Johnson
Kyle Lowry
Tayshaun Prince
Rodney Stuckey
Charlie Villanueva
Thad Young
Jeff Green
Omer Asik
Luke Walton
Andy Varejao
Glen Davis
Jason Richardson
JJ Reddick
Trevor Ariza
Andray Blatche
Drew Gooden
Beno Udrih
Samuel Dalembert
Desagna Diop
Tyrus Thomas
Devin Harris
Shawn Marion
Brendan Haywood
Al Harrington
Wilson Chandler
Aaron Afflalo
Andris Biedrins
Mike Conley
Wesley Matthews
Metta World Peace
Kendrick Perkins
Josh Childress
Marcin Gortat
Channing Frye
Marvin Williams
Mo Williams
Paul Millsap
Marcus Thorton
Francisco Garcia

All of the bolded players healthy IMO have more basketball value to a team than Lin would. Not including a discussion of stock prices or the Chinese, I'd pat the Knicks on the back if they traded Lin for Lowry, Millsap, or Conley, especially Lowry or Conley as they are clearly better point guards and better fits on this team.

Edit: In addition, the majority of those contracts were handed out in a CBA that was nowhere near as punitive. Lastly, team fit is a big key, as Lin has already shown he struggles with our best two players. Even if he were worth his contract, which is very different than any player listed here in that they don't have a 200% third year kicker, you can't look at things in a vacuum. OJ Mayo has value around the league, but the Grizzlies let him go because his value exceeded what he could give them on their team.

Based on the absurd contracts handed out this FA period the new, punitive CBA hasn't changed anything. Once again, this is in reference to the players, posters, and commentators that are calling Lin's contract ridiculous (not in the structure (like Melo), but in the amount he's making). Thus, as far as that argument goes, it should, and must, be viewed in the vacuum of pay.

Now I'd agree Millsap and Conley are superior value at this point, but neither have the upside or potential of Lin (which would be the tipping point for me). Perkin, dudes sludge and a liability on the court if he isn't playing post defense (Sorry, if you only have one starter level talent, you aren't of superior basketball value to Lin). Same with Jeff Green-- a tweener that has one above average NBA skill: a decent outside shot. Chandler, a meh-player. AAA, depends on team, he's a good utility guy to top off a contender. Varejao, healthy, similar value, but lacks the x-factor of Lin.

Still, Lin's contract is in the top 80% -- and could be a complete steal (getting an above average starter for less than 10 is a great deal). If so, you trade away the BAD contracts (Amare, scrubs) and keep Lin when the tax time comes. That's the point.

Lin's contract would be in the top 80% if it's signed by the Rockets. If it's signed by the Knicks, that 15 million in one year totally degrades the value of that contract. Sure, it'd be an expiring, but we'd still have to take back 15 million in salary, so the tax hit would be the same.

Jeremy has no ELITE skills. He's not an elite playmaker, passer, defender, shooter, or finisher. He is a good basketball player, but the majority of your comparisons are totally arbitrary. Perkins is an ELITE post defender. Wilson Chandler is a better scorer and defender than Lin, and his contract won't cause his owner to have to pay any additional amount in the dozens of millions. Millsap, Conley, Thorton, Gortat, Varejao and Afflalo are all better basketball players at this stage. You stated they do not have Conley and Millsap do not have Lin's upside. Whaaaa? I say Conley for sure has just as high an upside as Lin. He is better in almost all departments except for hype. And again, his contract contains no poison pill.

You can say that keeping Lin makes us better. You can say the Knicks' organization and Cablevision will be more valuable with Lin on board. Hell, you can even say Lin is better than Felton or Kidd or Priogini (sp?). What you can't say is that bringing Lin backs guarantees the Knicks advance in the playoffs. You can't say Lin guarantees us 10 more wins next year. And if not matching him allows us to still sign and trade or gives us additional flexibility, you can't say yet if that is in the best interest of the Knicks. Again I have to ask: Does bringing Lin back SUBSTANTIALLY improve this team as currently constructed? That means you have to include alternate solutions at his position, fit with current personnel, and ability to improve.

I think the answer to that question is clearly that he doesn't improve us much at all now. He may down the line, but by then will Dolan be paying out his a**. If the tax had no impact, why is Fields not a Knickerbocker any longer?

[CoolKids]

Exactly, Knicks are already over the payroll. With the caliber of players the Knicks have, winning the championship should be the only acceptable result. Replacing Lin with Fatty Felton is not the way.

Pretty sure the breakd down is something like: For Matching Lin:500 Against Matching Lin: 5.

Just not everyone caught feelings like they were a teenage girl and are going to stop being fans and give up on the team if management makes the wrong decision of letting him go.

[Shemy]

Melo+Amare+Tyson a big three

let me ninja kick you

[CU_NY09]

What's wrong with what he said?

Not going to lie, but I never liked SAS. He is annoying. In this article, I disagree with him. His Headline for one sucks:

Knicks must let Jeremy Lin go

He is just trying to get attention. Then he flowers his article with trying to give him some credit.

there's nothing wrong with saying he's not chris paul but to say that lin makes as much as chris paul isn't true. Chris Paul has made and is still making a lot more money than lin.

[Thugger HBC]

I think we are forgetting whats most important here Carmelo Anthony has the worst playoff record in the history of the NBA

amirite?

Wrong thread dude.

The hate Melo thread is the one a few spots down.

this thread is about Lin not being worth the money he's being paid.

[Stannis]

What's wrong with what he said?

Not going to lie, but I never liked SAS. He is annoying. In this article, I disagree with him. His Headline for one sucks:

Knicks must let Jeremy Lin go

He is just trying to get attention. Then he flowers his article with trying to give him some credit.

So you disagree with what he wrote or just the title of the article?

If it's the former, then you didn't read it.

Hate SAS all you want, but the article is a good one.

FFS, I ready the article you jackass. I disagree that he thinks the Knicks are going the veteran route is a good thing. You have to have a mix of youth in.

[juxtaposition]

So Melo haters hate melo 1000x more, Lin haters hate Lin 1000x more, and 5000 posts later, I hate the entire world 1000x more.

[Realmatic]

this board is out of control now...if this is how it is when we have no idea whats going on. This board will crash if lin doesnt get matched.

[Grinditout]

I think we are forgetting whats most important here Carmelo Anthony has the worst playoff record in the history of the NBA

amirite?

Wrong thread dude.

The hate Melo thread is the one a few spots down. :lol:

this thread is about Lin not being worth the money he's being paid.

Every thread on here is a Hate Melo thread or at least will become one.

[CoolKids]

I think we are forgetting whats most important here Carmelo Anthony has the worst playoff record in the history of the NBA

amirite?

Wrong thread dude.

The hate Melo thread is the one a few spots down.

this thread is about Lin not being worth the money he's being paid.

This is realgm every thread is a hate melo thread.

[Red Vines]

Nate Jones ‏@JonesOnTheNBA
Would have been interesting to see Lin play on the USAB Select Team. I'm sure guys on the Senior Team would have gone at him tough.

This would have really helped our decision--to see how far along he is.

[MKCATL]

if this kid was a lottery pick would we even be having this conversation?

[adjacent2bench]

Guys...how many more millions of dollars do you think the Knicks will make off Lin, than if he wasn't a Knick?

Can the Knicks really make up that 40 million tax with Lin's marketability?

[rocarlos24]

damn man ppl are right about some knicks fans being totally irrashional .
I mean JR took way less money to stay and he is getting killed on here... wtf?
Melo played a year hurt, still getting killed on here,

then JLIN is on some BS some contract switcharo ish, and yall love this dude?

I want the dude back, but you got a point. He knew he was **** us with the poison pill. Want yours? NP. Just don't cry if we don't match.

lin isn't **** crying if we don't match. the point is, we should match because it's good for us, not because it's good for lin or any bull like that. that's the whole point.

how is us matching that contract a good thing?
he really isnt that good.. Nate was good here too some 40 point games
he cant even get a contract? people are attracted to this dude like crazy..
I get it its the whole Rocky thing that underdog thing I get it..


this aint the movies the kid is what he is, a decent pg but so is fatty, so is jameer, so is Jose, so is sessions... none of them dudes are getting 15 mill a year

[boomann21]

So Melo haters hate melo 1000x more, Lin haters hate Lin 1000x more, and 5000 posts later, I hate the entire world 1000x more.

Guys are losing their minds.