ImageImageImageImageImage

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3)

Moderators: Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36, j4remi, NoLayupRule, HerSports85, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23

Greenie
RealGM
Posts: 58,966
And1: 30,697
Joined: Feb 25, 2010

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1421 » by Greenie » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:48 am

DocZaius wrote:
Melo used the Nets into forcing the Knicks into giving up every possible asset to get him, then he met with Dolan personally in the middle of the season when both teams were in a playoff race just to personally confirm that his coffers were empty.....then he signed for the maximum allowable contract..... and even now to this day he is giving his input on personnel decisions that would give himself the most glory and the easiest path to achieve his selfish goals

Melo is the man!!!

Image

Have several.
User avatar
RHODEY
RealGM
Posts: 25,228
And1: 22,746
Joined: May 18, 2007
Location: Straight out of a comic book

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1422 » by RHODEY » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:48 am

We have a situation where a player renegotiated a contract after the Knicks essentially state publicly that they will match, so that it becomes far less likely that they will do so.

How is there any way to interpret this other than Jeremy Lin doesn't want to come back to NY?

Or at least it's " well, I'll come back to NY but they are rich so I will milk them for more millions than Tyson Chandler will be earning his final year."

Regardless of whether or not you think they should match (and i am of two minds myself) if you are a Knick fan what on EARTH is there in this situation that merits loyalty to Lin, to the point of turning on the franchise?

Match or don't match, Lin is giving the middle finger to the team that raised him.
DE FENSE
RealGM
Posts: 14,902
And1: 2,847
Joined: Aug 22, 2006
Location: Brooklyn
 

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1423 » by DE FENSE » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:48 am

Realmatic wrote:‏@Al_Iannazzone
A little boy wearing a Jeremy Lin jersey just got an autograph from Mike Woodson.


LOL who gives a fck
User avatar
ITGM
RealGM
Posts: 19,974
And1: 9,349
Joined: Jan 16, 2008

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1424 » by ITGM » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:48 am

Realmatic wrote:‏@Al_Iannazzone
A little boy wearing a Jeremy Lin jersey just got an autograph from Mike Woodson.


:lol: Racial harmony
User avatar
CoolKids
RealGM
Posts: 14,447
And1: 2,650
Joined: Feb 17, 2009
Location: The Bronx
     

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1425 » by CoolKids » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:49 am

Realmatic wrote:‏@Al_Iannazzone
A little boy wearing a Jeremy Lin jersey just got an autograph from Mike Woodson.

hallelujah the sign we have been waiting for!!
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 66,981
And1: 45,727
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Brunson Gang
   

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1426 » by GONYK » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:49 am

rocarlos24 wrote:
adjacent2bench wrote:Guys...how many more millions of dollars do you think the Knicks will make off Lin, than if he wasn't a Knick?

Can the Knicks really make up that 40 million tax with Lin's marketability?



from a basketball standpoint ho does that matter?
this franchise hasnt won a chip in 40 years they want to win..

how many players leave great teams on the regular? Well ran organizations do not over pay
unproven players.. veterans that earned it they get there money but 25 games?

lemme see you go to work for 25 days as a Account Exec then say you know what I'm the ish..
make me CEO..


Sports are not relatable to an everyday job
Shemy
Head Coach
Posts: 6,335
And1: 460
Joined: Mar 03, 2009
Location: PHX, AZ
         

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1427 » by Shemy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:49 am

clipse375 wrote:
Shemy wrote:
clipse375 wrote:Hope people are still b*tching about Melo's comments when he's leading our team to a top seed in the East.

Because his basketball skills on the court mean nothing, it's all about his opinion on Jeremy Lin's contract.. :lol:

what would it matter hed just get pounced outta of the first round again


Doubt it would be solely on him. Wasn't his stupid ass that punched a fire extinguisher.

his hand was still prolly sore after he sucker punched mardy collins....many many many many moons ago

7 outta 8 times first round, im starting to see a pattern
"They scared now"
BallSacBounce
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,929
And1: 2,411
Joined: Dec 14, 2011

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1428 » by BallSacBounce » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:49 am

BrOnXKing1 wrote:
ORANGEandBLUE wrote:
Jim ‏@NYGreenMachine
@TheRealJRSmith @carmeloanthony get off my **** team; we want to build unselfish Ship teams with pass first PG's like Lin, JR&Melo must go
Retweeted by JR Smith
from Hollywood, FL
Reply Retweet Favorite

55m Jim ‏@NYGreenMachine
@TheRealJRSmith players on Knick roster R a joke, selfish, if u don't want Lin back then OBVIOUSLY u don't CARE abt WINNING @carmeloanthony
Retweeted by JR Smith
from Hollywood, FL
Reply Retweet



Dolan and Grunwald just created a effing mess. All they had to do was just match Lin, and nobody was going to ask Melo or Jr about there thoughts on the deal.

But now if the Knicks dont match (all most certain this will happen), the fans are going to create hell, Melo and Felton are going to be in immense scrutiny about everything they do.

IF the Knicks match (wont happen), then LIn and JR/Melo probably wont get along!


FML.
Realmatic
Pro Prospect
Posts: 761
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 28, 2006

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1429 » by Realmatic » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:49 am

I'm just passing on what i saw on twitter lol
Jan_Sobieski
Banned User
Posts: 5,753
And1: 13
Joined: Nov 12, 2011
Location: Slavic Union

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1430 » by Jan_Sobieski » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:49 am

ITGM wrote:
Realmatic wrote:‏@Al_Iannazzone
A little boy wearing a Jeremy Lin jersey just got an autograph from Mike Woodson.


:lol: Racial harmony

Dude has to bow down to the man.
Thugger HBC
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 49,679
And1: 18,760
Joined: Jan 14, 2011
Location: Defense+efficient offense=titles...what do you have?
       

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1431 » by Thugger HBC » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:50 am

Synciere wrote:
adjacent2bench wrote:Guys...how many more millions of dollars do you think the Knicks will make off Lin, than if he wasn't a Knick?

Can the Knicks really make up that 40 million tax with Lin's marketability?


I've asked this question three times, and have yet to get an answer. Perhaps no one on the board knows, but if we don't match, wouldn't that be a clear indication his value off the court for this franchise could not go any higher? Lin only dramatically improved the value of the franchise when he was playing like a franchise player with game winners and exciting finishes. If he regresses, does he become Yi Jianlin?

Just having him on the team and being Asian is not enough to ensure he makes the Knicks money, right? He has to be as good as he's been to justify this contract, right?

what crazy about it is the fanbase attracted to Lin is benefiting the entire league, not just the Knicks.

the entire league shares the merchandising revenues, and the Knicks will still continue to sellout with or without him.

I do think the stock spike was real though.
R. I. P. Mamba 8/23/78 - 1/26/20

Gone, but will never be forgotten
User avatar
ITGM
RealGM
Posts: 19,974
And1: 9,349
Joined: Jan 16, 2008

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1432 » by ITGM » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:50 am

Jan_Sobieski wrote:
ITGM wrote:
Realmatic wrote:‏@Al_Iannazzone
A little boy wearing a Jeremy Lin jersey just got an autograph from Mike Woodson.


:lol: Racial harmony

Dude has to bow down to the man.


:lol: :rofl:
User avatar
Stannis
RealGM
Posts: 19,594
And1: 13,003
Joined: Dec 05, 2011
Location: Game 1, 2025 ECF
 

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1433 » by Stannis » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:50 am

Shemy wrote:
clipse375 wrote:Doubt it would be solely on him. Wasn't his stupid ass that punched a fire extinguisher.

his hand was still prolly sore after he sucker punched mardy collins....many many many many moons ago

7 outta 8 times first round, im starting to see a pattern

lmao
DE FENSE
RealGM
Posts: 14,902
And1: 2,847
Joined: Aug 22, 2006
Location: Brooklyn
 

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1434 » by DE FENSE » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:50 am

Realmatic wrote:I'm just passing on what i saw on twitter lol


Trust those comments are directed towards the tweet, not you
User avatar
boomann21
RealGM
Posts: 26,105
And1: 2,777
Joined: Dec 07, 2005
Location: In the Wind

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1435 » by boomann21 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:50 am

Nono wrote:Only 6 more pages to go.


Thanks. I"m going to get as many comments as I can before the next thread as to be remembered.
Image
User avatar
goshjosh
Sophomore
Posts: 150
And1: 0
Joined: Dec 29, 2011

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1436 » by goshjosh » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:50 am

The fact that this argument has gone on so long shows that the NYK fanbase has gone into a complete meltdown. Absolutely no coherency. Just like the real Knicks team...

Also, we're trying to get Hill now? Hill, Kidd, Camby, Thomas. Dang, had no idea MSG was getting a building extension to facilitate a retirement home.
adjacent2bench
RealGM
Posts: 33,333
And1: 8,101
Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Location: Adjacent to the Knick Bench
     

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1437 » by adjacent2bench » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:51 am

RHODEY wrote:We have a situation where a player renegotiated a contract after the Knicks essentially state publicly that they will match, so that it becomes far less likely that they will do so.

How is there any way to interpret this other than Jeremy Lin doesn't want to come back to NY?

Or at least it's " well, I'll come back to NY but they are rich so I will milk them for more millions than Tyson Chandler will be earning his final year."

Regardless of whether or not you think they should match (and i am of two minds myself) if you are a Knick fan what on EARTH is there in this situation that merits loyalty to Lin, to the point of turning on the franchise?

Match or don't match, Lin is giving the middle finger to the team that raised him.



He really is...and it's annoying, but he'd be stupid not to take the money. I still say **** him for it though.
barborous
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,713
And1: 269
Joined: Mar 22, 2012

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1438 » by barborous » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:51 am

CoolKids wrote:I wish. There are quite a few members of this board who would argue that Lin is almost as good as Paulif not better already. And there is still all that potnetial....

no, there's not. i don't understand why those of you who have no faith in lin try to make those who do support lin seem somehow irrational, whether accusing them of not being real knicks fans, exaggerate their positions like crazy, go on about "melo bashing" when lin bashing is just as common, etc. it's silly and childish, and a large part of why these threads are unbearable. if you think you're right, just argue your point coherently. stop with the ad hominems and strawmen.
User avatar
boomann21
RealGM
Posts: 26,105
And1: 2,777
Joined: Dec 07, 2005
Location: In the Wind

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1439 » by boomann21 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:52 am

GONYK wrote:
rocarlos24 wrote:
adjacent2bench wrote:Guys...how many more millions of dollars do you think the Knicks will make off Lin, than if he wasn't a Knick?

Can the Knicks really make up that 40 million tax with Lin's marketability?



from a basketball standpoint ho does that matter?
this franchise hasnt won a chip in 40 years they want to win..

how many players leave great teams on the regular? Well ran organizations do not over pay
unproven players.. veterans that earned it they get there money but 25 games?

lemme see you go to work for 25 days as a Account Exec then say you know what I'm the ish..
make me CEO..


Sports are not relatable to an everyday job


Yep, those guys have groupies waiting at hotles after every game. I come out of my 9 to 5 to the sounds of crickets.
Image
User avatar
Synciere
General Manager
Posts: 8,524
And1: 5,623
Joined: Jun 08, 2004
     

Re: Felton traded to Knicks; Not matching Lin? (part 3) 

Post#1440 » by Synciere » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:52 am

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:
Synciere wrote:Lin's contract would be in the top 80% if it's signed by the Rockets. If it's signed by the Knicks, that 15 million in one year totally degrades the value of that contract. Sure, it'd be an expiring, but we'd still have to take back 15 million in salary, so the tax hit would be the same.

Jeremy has no ELITE skills. He's not an elite playmaker, passer, defender, shooter, or finisher. He is a good basketball player, but the majority of your comparisons are totally arbitrary. Perkins is an ELITE post defender. Wilson Chandler is a better scorer and defender than Lin, and his contract won't cause his owner to have to pay any additional amount in the dozens of millions. Millsap, Conley, Thorton, Gortat, Varejao and Afflalo are all better basketball players at this stage. You stated they do not have Conley and Millsap do not have Lin's upside. Whaaaa? I say Conley for sure has just as high an upside as Lin. He is better in almost all departments except for hype. And again, his contract contains no poison pill.

You can say that keeping Lin makes us better. You can say the Knicks' organization and Cablevision will be more valuable with Lin on board. Hell, you can even say Lin is better than Felton or Kidd or Priogini (sp?). What you can't say is that bringing Lin backs guarantees the Knicks advance in the playoffs. You can't say Lin guarantees us 10 more wins next year. And if not matching him allows us to still sign and trade or gives us additional flexibility, you can't say yet if that is in the best interest of the Knicks. Again I have to ask: Does bringing Lin back SUBSTANTIALLY improve this team as currently constructed? That means you have to include alternate solutions at his position, fit with current personnel, and ability to improve.

I think the answer to that question is clearly that he doesn't improve us much at all now. He may down the line, but by then will Dolan be paying out his a**. If the tax had no impact, why is Fields not a Knickerbocker any longer?

No, that's the whole point. It doesn't help us get any other players or improve our flexibility.


Fair enough. So then it comes down to how much he makes the franchise off the court versus how much signing him will cost. I've never been amongst those who have said signing a player is immediately double in terms of the tax because the team also has other players who contribute to going over that tax amount. However in this situation, I will, because the Knicks have now signed or traded for three point guards since the beginning of free agency. In addition, I believe Lin only makes the Knicks more money if he's consistently playing at Linsanity levels. Yao made the Rockets money because he was an elite player. I don't put Lin in that category. Lastly, even if matching the sheet doesn't hurt our flexibility, it most definitely hurts Dolan's bottom line, unless Lin is Linsanity.

What are the chances Lin comes back and plays like he did that month for an entire year. Consider how he played with the return of Amare and Melo. Consider that we have alternatives now. Consider his performances against elite competition. Consider his own skills. I think it's highly unlikely he plays on that level; still a good player, but not worthy of a tax hit that is sure to come. If you're Dolan, can you really blame him for saying: you know what, I don't want to pay that extra 40 million in 2015?

Return to New York Knicks