stevieg987 wrote:Synciere wrote:
Lin's contract would be in the top 80% if it's signed by the Rockets. If it's signed by the Knicks, that 15 million in one year totally degrades the value of that contract. Sure, it'd be an expiring, but we'd still have to take back 15 million in salary, so the tax hit would be the same.
Jeremy has no ELITE skills. He's not an elite playmaker, passer, defender, shooter, or finisher. He is a good basketball player, but the majority of your comparisons are totally arbitrary. Perkins is an ELITE post defender. Wilson Chandler is a better scorer and defender than Lin, and his contract won't cause his owner to have to pay any additional amount in the dozens of millions. Millsap, Conley, Thorton, Gortat, Varejao and Afflalo are all better basketball players at this stage. You stated they do not have Conley and Millsap do not have Lin's upside. Whaaaa? I say Conley for sure has just as high an upside as Lin. He is better in almost all departments except for hype. And again, his contract contains no poison pill.
You can say that keeping Lin makes us better. You can say the Knicks' organization and Cablevision will be more valuable with Lin on board. Hell, you can even say Lin is better than Felton or Kidd or Priogini (sp?). What you can't say is that bringing Lin backs guarantees the Knicks advance in the playoffs. You can't say Lin guarantees us 10 more wins next year. And if not matching him allows us to still sign and trade or gives us additional flexibility, you can't say yet if that is in the best interest of the Knicks. Again I have to ask: Does bringing Lin back SUBSTANTIALLY improve this team as currently constructed? That means you have to include alternate solutions at his position, fit with current personnel, and ability to improve.
I think the answer to that question is clearly that he doesn't improve us much at all now. He may down the line, but by then will Dolan be paying out his a**. If the tax had no impact, why is Fields not a Knickerbocker any longer?
Once again, you're creating a separate argument. I posted the list in reference to posters/players/experts who claim Lin is undeserving of the money (which any way you slice it is 25 over three years).
You say they're all better basketball players at this stage-- I'd disagree (it's uncertain). Lin over the course of 25 games played at an All-Star level, a level none of the players referenced have reached (Millsap, maybe). We don't know what we're getting with Lin. That's why we're having this debate. And, even then, the entire debate is premature because we're arguing about something so inexact and unquantifiable: Lin's ability. All of those players are what they are: solid to good NBA players. None of them will ever be a top option on a contender, none of them will ever be perennial All-Stars. Jeremy's a mystery. We don't know if he's a fluke or not. But we know he "could" be the real deal.
Because one thing is for sure: Lin showed he had the ability to, as the focus of the opposing teams entire defense, create his own shot and score at an efficient clip. Any perimeter player that can do that, especially during their first run of games, has the potential to be dynamic and game-changing talent (you need those talents to win a title). That's the trait every star backcourt player has. That's what seperates the good from the great. The role players from the stars. A playoff win from a playoff loss (you can get away with it in the regular season). And you simply can't let that go. Especially a team as top heavy talent starved and cap restrained as the Knicks.
Bottom line: Bringing back Lin may not guarantee we "advance" in the playoffs, but we all know, if we don't, we're guaranteed not to.
I disagree it's a separate argument. The amount paid to the player is the same, sure. The amount paid by the team can vary, and vary drastically; that is the point of restricted free agency: to structure a deal in such a way that it hurts the original team. Either way Hibbert is signing a max deal, but Portland front loaded the deal in such a way that he would have received a large signing bonus in that first year. That was specifically designed to hurt Indiana.
There have been THOUSANDS of players who played like All Stars over 25 games. Lowry had All Star numbers and buzz last year, in a tougher conference for guards. Lin's ability is in fact quantifiable. Look at his numbers during that streak. 18/7 with 4 turnovers a games. Look at his numbers once Melo and Amare were full strength. A player's ability is quantifiable. You can use circumstances to decide if said player is better than the numbers, but the numbers can't be ignored, especially considering the circumstances in which he excelled are not likely to return. We certainly have to hope both Amare and Melo don't go down over an extended period of time.
Lin showed the ability to score and create at an efficient clip is a loaded statement on your part. Look at his minutes per game during that stretch. Look at his turnovers. Look at the competition. That last statement is key. Against the one team we will HAVE to beat, Lin looked his worst. Look, I like Lin, and hope we get him back, because I don't think he'd make us worse. I think he'd make us better, but I can understand why our owner would say, he doesn't make us better enough to justify what I'm going to have to pay to keep him in 2015 as opposed to letting him go now. If we don't have Lin, that does NOT mean we are not guaranteed to advance in the playoffs. You may believe that, but it is in no way true, or as you would put it, quantifiable. I hope if we match that you are right, that he has dynamic and game-changing potential. I also hope he dribbles past Mario Chalmers without bouncing the ball off his foot. As a guard, in order to have that dynamic you were referring to, you have to be able to play off of other great players, and you have to have elite handle.He doesn't yet.
