OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THREAD

[Wesley]

I guess your point is that bad culture makes it impossible for these good things to ever come to fruition and you appear to be right about that.

That's a long way of saying -- I can't believe we did what we did and I have lost all faith in the organization.

After being a fan of this franchise for 32 years, I have as well. He is spot on--nothing positive can thrive in this culture. Can you imagine the Giants letting it get to this point with Victor Cruz? The Knicks might be the worst team in all of pro sports. And this isn't just about Lin.

[AVolumeScorer]

What Did Dolan do beside Hire Isaiah thomas? he never had problems spending money, we had bad contracts yes, who was against signing crawford, who was against signing Curry, Curry was damn near an all start his first year. who was against trading for Zach Randoplh, who was against cleaning and Clearing house for Lebron James? what did Dolan do beside hire Isaiah Thomas? who was against Bringing Marbury Home everyone Criticize the Melo Deal, we got Felton back and we have J.R Smith, who would have known we would have Melo, J.R and Felton back for Gallo and Chandler, sign me up for that trade anyday. Again what did Dolan do so wrong? Give a kid a chance on the team then when don't decide to sign him because he didt want to give away his money, HIS, DOLAN MONEY, cant get mad at that guy, thats his money. Hey there fuccaz each and everyone of you Lin fanz on here can afford 10 dollars let me get it..............sound stupid right? you dont give up money because you can afford it, you do it if YOU think its right, in Dolan eyes it wasnt so get over it, Felton is better than Lin anyway.

I wish I could sig this whole post, I'm sorry to call out another user like this but...wow

[MSG]

I know many of you are pissed because we let Lin go but I think we still have a very good team that is ready for a deep postseason run.
I want us to play like we used to in the 90's. We are surely a lot tougher than we were 2 seasons ago. We have Tyson and Camby at C position,two tough guys. Felton and Kidd aren't soft either. J.R.Smith and Melo are mostly viewed as thugs. Shump will also be back. Most of our roster is filled with tough guys and I love it. Add a defensive minded coach (Woody) and I hope we can enjoy in some tough,defensive minded basketball,not that "120-123 score at the end of games" that we had with D'Antoni.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJm-aCirm5A&feature=plcp[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJyxS1U0Tmo[/youtube]

Who cares?

Seriously, isn't every NBA team's one and only goal to win a title?If anyone think's we get past the Heat, they're wrong. It'll take a freak injury to one of their big three for that to happen. Our only chance was the "X" factor in Lin, and that's gone. No, I'm not saying Lin would've beat the Heat, but he was an X factor, Felton isn't. Kidd will be torched by any quick point guard, he hasn't been above average defensively in a few years now. It's a question mark if Shumpert returns at 100%[I think so, but still]
Camby I like, but we have such a slow and immobile front court. Only Melo and Chandler are quick in any way. Kurt Thomas isn't going to see any meaningful minutes in a Heat series. I think the ECF is our ceiling this year barring some injury to Wade/Bosh/LeBron.

JR Smith is a thug, but the problem is that's all he brings besides the hope that his talent might actually translate into production some day. I have an agenda against JR Smith, I admit that. He's the only Knicks player I don't like right now. Sure, every 15 games when he get's streaky he can score from anywhere past the half court line, and yeah he tries on defense, and he does flashy dunks. That's about it, AI/Stephen Jackson/Metta are known as thugs too, but they're all viewed highly in NBA circles[AI's heart and will, S-Jax being the ultimate teammate, Metta being one of the greatest man to man defenders ever at one point], JR Smith is viewed as a thug, and a person who acts like an idiot on and off the court and is a creep on twitter.

Yeah, JR Smith came back to the Knicks for less money. Why?No one else wanted him, and I have to give it to him. He's being smart by sucking up to Dolan, I won't be shocked in two years when JR get's a 4 year deal near the max.

Lin played like crap against the Heat. And I would much rather get into the ECF every year than be a mediocre team. We might not win a championship but if we can play hard every night,reach the ECF and put up a fight I'm fine with that.

[AVolumeScorer]

That was Lin's first game vs Miami, who were pretty easily a top 5 defensive team in the league. Spo centered his entire gameplan around Lin, and played him to perfection. Do you think that Lin wouldn't have come back stronger the next game?It's not like Ray Felton had amazing results vs that Heat team either which at the time had a worse roster than they do now

[MSG]

That was Lin's first game vs Miami, who were pretty easily a top 5 defensive team in the league. Spo centered his entire gameplan around Lin, and played him to perfection. Do you think that Lin wouldn't have come back stronger the next game?It's not like Ray Felton had amazing results vs that Heat team either which at the time had a worse roster than they do now

Lin turned it over much against not so good defensive teams as well. Didn't he have like 8 or 9 turnovers against the Hornets at MSG ? Let's face it. If you want to beat the Heat you just can't turn the ball over and Lin is a turnover machine. He probably would have played better in the second game because he couldn't have played any worse in the first one.

[Wesley]

That was Lin's first game vs Miami, who were pretty easily a top 5 defensive team in the league. Spo centered his entire gameplan around Lin, and played him to perfection. Do you think that Lin wouldn't have come back stronger the next game?It's not like Ray Felton had amazing results vs that Heat team either which at the time had a worse roster than they do now

Lin turned it over much against not so good defensive teams as well. Didn't he have like 8 or 9 turnovers against the Hornets at MSG ? Let's face it. If you want to beat the Heat you just can't turn the ball over and Lin is a turnover machine. He probably would have played better in the second game because he couldn't have played any worse in the first one.

Lin is 23 years old with limited NBA experience. Is it out of the question that he would get better?

[AVolumeScorer]

That was Lin's first game vs Miami, who were pretty easily a top 5 defensive team in the league. Spo centered his entire gameplan around Lin, and played him to perfection. Do you think that Lin wouldn't have come back stronger the next game?It's not like Ray Felton had amazing results vs that Heat team either which at the time had a worse roster than they do now

Lin turned it over much against not so good defensive teams as well. Didn't he have like 8 or 9 turnovers against the Hornets at MSG ? Let's face it. If you want to beat the Heat you just can't turn the ball over and Lin is a turnover machine. He probably would have played better in the second game because he couldn't have played any worse in the first one.

What was that, his 9th game as a starter?Lin isn't a turnover machine, Jason Williams was a turnover machine. You can't tell me that Lin has no room to cut that problem down. Although I wouldn't be surprised if Lin averages 4 turnovers a game in Houston just because he's the #2 option and everyone else is tied for a distant third

5-13, 15/5/3/0 turnovers[nice]
3-12, 8/10/4/3
1-6, 6/7/3/2

it's not like Felton was doing much better, 22-7 A/TO is nice, that's about it

[MSG]

That was Lin's first game vs Miami, who were pretty easily a top 5 defensive team in the league. Spo centered his entire gameplan around Lin, and played him to perfection. Do you think that Lin wouldn't have come back stronger the next game?It's not like Ray Felton had amazing results vs that Heat team either which at the time had a worse roster than they do now

Lin turned it over much against not so good defensive teams as well. Didn't he have like 8 or 9 turnovers against the Hornets at MSG ? Let's face it. If you want to beat the Heat you just can't turn the ball over and Lin is a turnover machine. He probably would have played better in the second game because he couldn't have played any worse in the first one.

Lin is 23 years old with limited NBA experience. Is it out of the question that he would get better?

Of course he might get better. But people here are acting like we lost Michael Jordan. I don't even think Lin is better than Felton. They put up similar stats under D'Antoni.

[Wesley]

Of course he might get better. But people here are acting like we lost Michael Jordan. I don't even think Lin is better than Felton. They put up similar stats under D'Antoni.

Lin was a better PG in the aspect that he was able to find open players other than STAT, and is younger, so he has a higher ceiling. The Knicks had a GOLDEN opportunity, a once in a 50 year player if you take into account the circumstances (mind you, I'm not saying that Lin is a once in a 50 year player, but rather I'm looking at the situation and how he became a member of the Knicks.) and they let him go, for nothing, because if the utter incompetence of the FO/ownership. Again, can you see a proven organization like the Giants handling Victor Cruz this way? Would Justin Tuck have something to say about his contract? It did, and said player was Tiki Barber. He, and the environment was toxic. But today? Never would happen. From the pursuit of Nash onward, this has been clumsy and amateurishly handled at best. Until this owner dies, there is little hope for this team.

[cgmw]

I guess your point is that bad culture makes it impossible for these good things to ever come to fruition and you appear to be right about that.

That's a long way of saying -- I can't believe we did what we did and I have lost all faith in the organization.

After being a fan of this franchise for 32 years, I have as well. He is spot on--nothing positive can thrive in this culture. Can you imagine the Giants letting it get to this point with Victor Cruz? The Knicks might be the worst team in all of pro sports. And this isn't just about Lin.

I'm only just approaching my third decade of fandom. My first actual game was David Robinson's debut at the Garden during the 1989 pre-season, where my friend's dad snuck me in, although by then I had been following young Ewing's career and "the Bomb Squad" pretty closely.

Anyway.

I have something to tell both of you disillusioned longtime fans. Jim Dolan may count the Knicks as one of his possessions. "The Knicks" may appear on some IRS Form as "property of Jim Dolan," but you know what? They aren't his.

Jim Dolan isn't selling widgets, sprockets, or birthday cakes. All he's selling is our own long-established goodwill back to us for a fee. In other words, it's not really his team. It's our team. Without our goodwill, he has nothing to sell.

I'm not saying this to suggest any kind of pie-in-the-sky delusion that we control a damn thing because we don't. I'm just pointing out that any sports team belongs to its fans just as much if not more than it does its owner. Our ability to follow the team, root for the team, curse the team, buy tickets, don't buy tickets, or post 10,000 messages about it is exactly that -- ours. Jim Dolan can't touch that.

As I said during our month-long Dolan/culture debate earlier this year, KnicksGod -- In 30 years, Dolan probably won't own the Knicks, but I'll still be here cheering my stupid face off, and truthfully there's nothing either of us (Dolan or myself) can do about it.

So is a fat, arrogant, incompetent, prick taking advantage of my loyalties? Absolutely. But they're still my loyalties, gotdamnit. Ultimately, it's too late for me to change teams or stop rooting for hoops. I'm in. I'm going to curse JR Smith all year. I'm going to curse Amar'e. I'm going to jump up and down when Carmelo hits a game winner, and I'm going to enjoy or hate every minute of it. Why?

Because they're my Knicks, that's why.

[DishAndSwish]

I guess your point is that bad culture makes it impossible for these good things to ever come to fruition and you appear to be right about that.

That's a long way of saying -- I can't believe we did what we did and I have lost all faith in the organization.

After being a fan of this franchise for 32 years, I have as well. He is spot on--nothing positive can thrive in this culture. Can you imagine the Giants letting it get to this point with Victor Cruz? The Knicks might be the worst team in all of pro sports. And this isn't just about Lin.

I'm only just approaching my third decade of fandom. My first actual game was David Robinson's debut at the Garden during the 1989 pre-season, where my friend's dad snuck me in, although by then I had been following young Ewing's career and "the Bomb Squad" pretty closely.

Anyway.

I have something to tell both of you disillusioned longtime fans. Jim Dolan may count the Knicks as one of his possessions. "The Knicks" may appear on some IRS Form as "property of Jim Dolan," but you know what? They aren't his.

Jim Dolan isn't selling widgets, sprockets, or birthday cakes. All he's selling is our own long-established goodwill back to us for a fee. In other words, it's not really his team. It's our team. Without our goodwill, he has nothing to sell.

I'm not saying this to suggest any kind of pie-in-the-sky delusion that we control a damn thing because we don't. I'm just pointing out that any sports team belongs to its fans just as much if not more than it does its owner. Our ability to follow the team, root for the team, curse the team, buy tickets, don't buy tickets, or post 10,000 messages about it is exactly that -- ours. Jim Dolan can't touch that.

As I said during our month-long Dolan/culture debate earlier this year, KnicksGod -- In 30 years, Dolan probably won't own the Knicks, but I'll still be here cheering my stupid face off, and truthfully there's nothing either of us (Dolan or myself) can do about it.

So is a fat, arrogant, incompetent, prick taking advantage of my loyalties? Absolutely. But they're still my loyalties, gotdamnit. Ultimately, it's too late for me to change teams or stop rooting for hoops. I'm in. I'm going to curse JR Smith all year. I'm going to curse Amar'e. I'm going to jump up and down when Carmelo hits a game winner, and I'm going to enjoy or hate every minute of it. Why?

Because they're my Knicks, that's why.

This post made me cry cause it's so true. I'm doomed.

[K_ick_God]

I guess your point is that bad culture makes it impossible for these good things to ever come to fruition and you appear to be right about that.

That's a long way of saying -- I can't believe we did what we did and I have lost all faith in the organization.

After being a fan of this franchise for 32 years, I have as well. He is spot on--nothing positive can thrive in this culture. Can you imagine the Giants letting it get to this point with Victor Cruz? The Knicks might be the worst team in all of pro sports. And this isn't just about Lin.

I'm only just approaching my third decade of fandom. My first actual game was David Robinson's debut at the Garden during the 1989 pre-season, where my friend's dad snuck me in, although by then I had been following young Ewing's career and "the Bomb Squad" pretty closely.

Anyway.

I have something to tell both of you disillusioned longtime fans. Jim Dolan may count the Knicks as one of his possessions. "The Knicks" may appear on some IRS Form as "property of Jim Dolan," but you know what? They aren't his.

Jim Dolan isn't selling widgets, sprockets, or birthday cakes. All he's selling is our own long-established goodwill back to us for a fee. In other words, it's not really his team. It's our team. Without our goodwill, he has nothing to sell.

I'm not saying this to suggest any kind of pie-in-the-sky delusion that we control a damn thing because we don't. I'm just pointing out that any sports team belongs to its fans just as much if not more than it does its owner. Our ability to follow the team, root for the team, curse the team, buy tickets, don't buy tickets, or post 10,000 messages about it is exactly that -- ours. Jim Dolan can't touch that.

As I said during our month-long Dolan/culture debate earlier this year, KnicksGod -- In 30 years, Dolan probably won't own the Knicks, but I'll still be here cheering my stupid face off, and truthfully there's nothing either of us (Dolan or myself) can do about it.

So is a fat, arrogant, incompetent, prick taking advantage of my loyalties? Absolutely. But they're still my loyalties, gotdamnit. Ultimately, it's too late for me to change teams or stop rooting for hoops. I'm in. I'm going to curse JR Smith all year. I'm going to curse Amar'e. I'm going to jump up and down when Carmelo hits a game winner, and I'm going to enjoy or hate every minute of it. Why?

Because they're my Knicks, that's why.

Well I have no interest in this season. None. Less than none.

[AVolumeScorer]

Amazing post cgmw

That's the exact reason why there's a 0% chance people will stop watching the games on MSG, or people will stop going to games and buying Knicks merch. It won't happen

[AVolumeScorer]

Copied from the 1-5 scale thread because I want to know what you all think

Can I present a question?

Is Kurt Thomas going to see any meaningful minutes vs Miami?

When the Heat play smallball, what is Kurt Thomas going to do to help us?

I have no problem with the Thomas acquisition besides this. If he plays more than 5 MPG vs Miami in the playoffs we'll get dominated.

Also

Does anyone think that this current roster is equal to Miami?

Our ceiling, with or without Lin was losing to Miami in the playoffs. Lin was the X Factor. I believe we have a very, very good chance for a two seed and a ECF showdown with Miami. Hell, we may be able to take them to seven if everything plays out for us[JR doesn't shoot 31% again, Melo averages 30 ppg throughout the series, we're healthy, Felton doesn't blow every game vs them again, etc]. But I can't see us beating Miami, I'm sorry.

[polarbears815]

Copied from the 1-5 scale thread because I want to know what you all think

Can I present a question?

Is Kurt Thomas going to see any meaningful minutes vs Miami?

When the Heat play smallball, what is Kurt Thomas going to do to help us?

I have no problem with the Thomas acquisition besides this. If he plays more than 5 MPG vs Miami in the playoffs we'll get dominated.

Also

Does anyone think that this current roster is equal to Miami?

Our ceiling, with or without Lin was losing to Miami in the playoffs. Lin was the X Factor. I believe we have a very, very good chance for a two seed and a ECF showdown with Miami. Hell, we may be able to take them to seven if everything plays out for us[JR doesn't shoot 31% again, Melo averages 30 ppg throughout the series, we're healthy, Felton doesn't blow every game vs them again, etc]. But I can't see us beating Miami, I'm sorry.

We're definitely a top-3 seed. But I agree with you, with or without Lin, we're not better than Miami. Unless something changes regarding the fit of Amare and Melo, I can't see us beating the Heat either. Even if they did figure it out, still think it would be tough.

[AVolumeScorer]

The Heat will finish above us
The Celtics have a very good chance to finish above us
It's a toss up between us and the Pacers at 3

getting at least HCA would be great for this team, and also avoiding Miami until the ECF

[yk24]

Its official...the Knicks are the laughing stock of the NBA! woohoooooooo

[cgmw]

Well I have no interest in this season. None. Less than none.

Well, apparently you help run a website dedicated to pro basketball, so it appears you have some interest. If you've suffered as long as the rest of us, I hope you don't shortchange yourself by missing out on the ups and downs this season will inevitably bring.

If I'm completely honest, my interest in the Knicks was pretty dormant through the latter half of the Marbury years. At first, they got my blood boiling so high that I stopped watching for basically health reasons. Then I went through my stages of grief and got suckered back into full-fledged fandom during the Walsh revival.

Now I certainly see a catastrophe looming in the next several years, but I also see the potential for some very competitive battles that I'm going to want to watch even if Jeremy Lin won't be there and even if I know pig-faced Dolan is making money off me.

Is Felton fat? Kidd drunk? Carmelo immature? Amar'e a moron? JR Smith a world-class lowlife? Sure. But these fools are gonna put on a show the next three years, and I am really looking forward to seeing it.

Probably the biggest difference between us KG is that I've understood for a decade that this team has almost no chance of winning a title under James Dolan. I mean sure, we could catch lightning in a bottle and make an improbable run despite our "cultural" deficiencies. But I stopped holding my breath sometime after Jeff Van Gundy left. It is what it is my friend. Hopefully one day things will change.

[AVolumeScorer]

Its official...the Knicks are the laughing stock of the NBA! woohoooooooo

We're not the Bobcats

[K_ick_God]

Amazing post cgmw

That's the exact reason why there's a 0% chance people will stop watching the games on MSG, or people will stop going to games and buying Knicks merch. It won't happen

I think you're missing something: I'm not going to follow the team but it won't be because I'm protesting or boycotting. I have no interest in the roster and realize that this team has no chance. Trading Lin took the final joy out of the club. What is there to watch? See if JR and Melo can get hot? Boooooring.

Simmons was right -- Tyson won't get any easy looks anymore. Easy baskets will be much harder to come by. Ball movement will dry up.

There is nothing of interest, to me. It's not a boycott. My Knick fan life is dead by natural causes. They've taken all the interest out of it for me. I find there to be no suspense or doubt left with this team. We already know what's going to happen -- right down to JR getting a big contract next summer, and very likely Melo getting another Max in 3 years.

They will kill off some fans like me because I just don't think there's any hope left, or anything compelling about this roster.