OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THREAD

[cgmw]

Who will win a title first? The Knicks or the Jets?

The Jets have gotten further in the past three seasons than we have in 11 years
The Mets got further than us in 2006 than we have in 11 years

The Nuggets, Bulls, Clippers, Sixers, and Hawks all won more than 1 playoff game last season. Which means they made it further than we have in the past 11 years too. We could play this game all day.

[AVolumeScorer]

Who will win a title first? The Knicks or the Jets?

The Jets have gotten further in the past three seasons than we have in 11 years
The Mets got further than us in 2006 than we have in 11 years

The Nuggets, Bulls, Clippers, Sixers, and Hawks all won more than 1 playoff game last season. Which means they made it further than we have in the past 11 years too. We could play this game all day.

Hey, I'd have fun doing it. The Mets are having a great season though when everyone expected them to play like ****, the Jet's once Sanchez get's canned[everyone knows it's coming] have a good chance to make a push for the super bowl again. They were a Ben Roethlisberger completion away from doing it two seasons ago, and a Sanchez choke 3 seasons ago[although without him they wouldn't have gotten that far]

[Clyde_Style]

I guess your point is that bad culture makes it impossible for these good things to ever come to fruition and you appear to be right about that.

That's a long way of saying -- I can't believe we did what we did and I have lost all faith in the organization.

After being a fan of this franchise for 32 years, I have as well. He is spot on--nothing positive can thrive in this culture. Can you imagine the Giants letting it get to this point with Victor Cruz? The Knicks might be the worst team in all of pro sports. And this isn't just about Lin.

I'm only just approaching my third decade of fandom. My first actual game was David Robinson's debut at the Garden during the 1989 pre-season, where my friend's dad snuck me in, although by then I had been following young Ewing's career and "the Bomb Squad" pretty closely.

Anyway.

I have something to tell both of you disillusioned longtime fans. Jim Dolan may count the Knicks as one of his possessions. "The Knicks" may appear on some IRS Form as "property of Jim Dolan," but you know what? They aren't his.

Jim Dolan isn't selling widgets, sprockets, or birthday cakes. All he's selling is our own long-established goodwill back to us for a fee. In other words, it's not really his team. It's our team. Without our goodwill, he has nothing to sell.

I'm not saying this to suggest any kind of pie-in-the-sky delusion that we control a damn thing because we don't. I'm just pointing out that any sports team belongs to its fans just as much if not more than it does its owner. Our ability to follow the team, root for the team, curse the team, buy tickets, don't buy tickets, or post 10,000 messages about it is exactly that -- ours. Jim Dolan can't touch that.

As I said during our month-long Dolan/culture debate earlier this year, KnicksGod -- In 30 years, Dolan probably won't own the Knicks, but I'll still be here cheering my stupid face off, and truthfully there's nothing either of us (Dolan or myself) can do about it.

So is a fat, arrogant, incompetent, prick taking advantage of my loyalties? Absolutely. But they're still my loyalties, gotdamnit. Ultimately, it's too late for me to change teams or stop rooting for hoops. I'm in. I'm going to curse JR Smith all year. I'm going to curse Amar'e. I'm going to jump up and down when Carmelo hits a game winner, and I'm going to enjoy or hate every minute of it. Why?

Because they're my Knicks, that's why.

I appreciate what you said because I genuinely think that was an awesome speech, yet I'm afraid it inherently contradicts itself. If the spirit of the fans truly did "own" the team in the way you speak of then as in faith it is a matter of belief. The conviction of belief and faith has at times in history rallied people to transform a bad situation, but unfortunately these modern day corporations will continue going about their business until the fans collectively translate that faith in effective protest of some kind.

[Clyde_Style]

I am suckered into this team. Heck, I was following this team when our backcourt was Marbs/Francis. When I hated every single player on the roster + the coach. So I don't see myself being able to hold off for too long.

Having said that, I will not go to a single game next year. I will not plan my nights around the team schedule. I will watch the games only if there is no national TV game going on. I will definitely not fight with my wife over what to watch or whether we need to stay at home or not. In other words, Dolan might have helped with my marriage.

Silver linings!

[Clyde_Style]

Who will win a title first? The Knicks or the Jets?

The Mets

[Clyde_Style]

I will watch some Houston games for sure.

[Wesley]

Who will win a title first? The Knicks or the Jets?

The Mets

[GnarlesOakley]

I'm not leaving. I'm apathetic towards Dolan and the CAA satans after all this years. The team will be boring as hell and painful to watch, but they'll win enough games to reach the playoffs, and if they're lucky, get to the 2nd round. I'll enjoy reading people trash Melo and JR every chance they'll get, they both more than deserve it.

This is why I still post here. It's enough to keep me entertaining during Knicks games, because I don't expect the Knicks to be very entertaining.

I will watch some Houston games for sure.

I'll follow Lin to some degree, but my west team is still going to be Denver, as I still am a Gallo fan and they are actually fun to watch. That McGee contract is baffling though.

[cgmw]

I appreciate what you said because I genuinely think that was an awesome speech, yet I'm afraid it inherently contradicts itself. If the spirit of the fans truly did "own" the team in the way you speak of then as in faith it is a matter of belief. The conviction of belief and faith has at times in history rallied people to transform a bad situation, but unfortunately these modern day corporations will continue going about their business until the fans collectively translate that faith in effective protest of some kind.

Well hot damn, professor. I didn't say we couldn't all sign a petition or picket a Liberty game, I just pointed out that Dolan doesn't own my Knicks fandom. I do. My psychological identification with the team itself and my emotional investment in its success are entirely mine, not his. That's the whole trick with sports. These athletes get paid not because team owners are rich but because average joes like me are idiots who love them or hate them enough to pay good money.

Truthfully though, Dolan doesn't need to worry about fans like me and many of the regulars who post around here. What he should worry about are the lost generations of kids who'll grow up rooting for the Giants, Yankees, Lakers, Heat or (???) Brooklyn Nets.

Hard to believe any sports owner could f*ck up this situation, what with the largest, most loyal fanbase in all pro basketball. My prediction is that no protest will be necessary, Clyde. Dolan's arrogance and incompetence will catch up to him on its own, eventually.

[Clyde_Style]

I'm not leaving. I'm apathetic towards Dolan and the CAA satans after all this years. The team will be boring as hell and painful to watch, but they'll win enough games to reach the playoffs, and if they're lucky, get to the 2nd round. I'll enjoy reading people trash Melo and JR every chance they'll get, they both more than deserve it.

This is why I still post here. It's enough to keep me entertaining during Knicks games, because I don't expect the Knicks to be very entertaining.

There's a mob mentality here. If the wheels come off all of the bullies who call people fake fans will be the first ones to light their torches and chant for the heads of current players if things don't go the way they want. Then, after they roast someone alive they will come back the next year saying STFU if you don't like Knicks management.

[AVolumeScorer]

That McGee contract is quite fair considering the market for big men right now

He's probably on the same level as JR Smith in terms of his IQ level, but he's showed more brilliance in that playoff series than Smith has since he's entered the league

[Clyde_Style]

I appreciate what you said because I genuinely think that was an awesome speech, yet I'm afraid it inherently contradicts itself. If the spirit of the fans truly did "own" the team in the way you speak of then as in faith it is a matter of belief. The conviction of belief and faith has at times in history rallied people to transform a bad situation, but unfortunately these modern day corporations will continue going about their business until the fans collectively translate that faith in effective protest of some kind.

Well hot damn, professor. I didn't say we couldn't all sign a petition or picket a Liberty game, I just pointed out that Dolan doesn't own my Knicks fandom. I do. My psychological identification with the team itself and my emotional investment in its success are entirely mine, not his. That's the whole trick with sports. These athletes get paid not because team owners are rich but because average joes like me are idiots who love them or hate them enough to pay good money.

Truthfully though, Dolan doesn't need to worry about fans like me and many of the regulars who post around here. What he should worry about are the lost generations of kids who'll grow up rooting for the Giants, Yankees, Lakers, Heat or (???) Brooklyn Nets.

Hard to believe any sports owner could f*ck up this situation, what with the largest, most loyal fanbase in all pro basketball. My prediction is that no protest will be necessary, Clyde. Dolan's arrogance and incompetence will catch up to him on its own, eventually.

True, by 2040 the reign of mediocrity will result in a fan base of androids.

[cgmw]

True, by 2040 the reign of mediocrity will result in a fan base of androids.

Honestly, if the Knicks had been this bad from 80s through the mid-90s, I never would have formed such a lasting bond, and Dolan wouldn't receive the financial benefits of my tickets, cable subscriptions, and whatever ancillary net traffic my non-stop f*king internet posting might bring him.

Seriously, if the Melo experiment fails, what current 12 year old is going to be a die-hard Knick fan in 10 years? What have they had to cheer for? How lasting is their connection to a team that never gave them any real playoff battles?

Dolan can't go on doing this crap in perpetuity and expect the fanbase to stay connected. My generation still has about 30 more years of ticket-buying/cable subscribing in front of them. But then what?

[Wesley]

True, by 2040 the reign of mediocrity will result in a fan base of androids.

Honestly, if the Knicks had been this bad from 80s through the mid-90s, I never would have formed such a lasting bond, and Dolan wouldn't receive the financial benefits of my tickets, cable subscriptions, and whatever ancillary net traffic my non-stop f*king internet posting might bring him.

Seriously, if the Melo experiment fails, what current 12 year old is going to be a die-hard Knick fan in 10 years? What have they had to cheer for? How lasting is their connection to a team that never gave them any real playoff battles?

Dolan can't go on doing this crap in perpetuity and expect the fanbase to stay connected. My generation still has about 30 more years of ticket-buying/cable subscribing in front of them. But then what?

Brooklyn.

[Clyde_Style]

True, by 2040 the reign of mediocrity will result in a fan base of androids.

Honestly, if the Knicks had been this bad from 80s through the mid-90s, I never would have formed such a lasting bond, and Dolan wouldn't receive the financial benefits of my tickets, cable subscriptions, and whatever ancillary net traffic my non-stop f*king internet posting might bring him.

Seriously, if the Melo experiment fails, what current 12 year old is going to be a die-hard Knick fan in 10 years? What have they had to cheer for? How lasting is their connection to a team that never gave them any real playoff battles?

Dolan can't go on doing this crap in perpetuity and expect the fanbase to stay connected. My generation still has about 30 more years of ticket-buying/cable subscribing in front of them. But then what?

We saw how one of the poster's five year olds felt. There are thousands of heart broken kids out there right now.

And the bold above is really my primary concern now, not the Knicks. I need to stop this! It is completely unproductive and it is an addiction. Being a sports fan is in way nothing more than than an addiction so maybe the silver lining of this bamboozling hoodwinking of the fans is finally strong enough medicine to cure me and take back the time I spent doing this.

[cgmw]

And the bold above is really my primary concern now, not the Knicks. I need to stop this! It is completely unproductive and it is an addiction. Being a sports fan is in way nothing more than than an addiction so maybe the silver lining of this bamboozling hoodwinking of the fans is finally strong enough medicine to cure me and take back the time I spent doing this.

The first step is always the hardest. After that it's all about the serenity to accept the things Clyde cannot change; the courage to change the things Clyde can; and the wisdom to know the difference.

[Clyde_Style]

And the bold above is really my primary concern now, not the Knicks. I need to stop this! It is completely unproductive and it is an addiction. Being a sports fan is in way nothing more than than an addiction so maybe the silver lining of this bamboozling hoodwinking of the fans is finally strong enough medicine to cure me and take back the time I spent doing this.

The first step is always the hardest. After that it's all about the serenity to accept the things Clyde cannot change; the courage to change the things Clyde can; and the wisdom to know the difference.

Is there a support group? KA?

[cgmw]

We saw how one of the poster's five year olds felt. There are thousands of heart broken kids out there right now.

That kid's first reaction after he stopped crying? Playing NBA2K2 with the Brooklyn Nets.

[Rasho Brezec]

Kid's a sucker, real fan turns on association mode and rebuilds the Knicks. Not even Dolan can take away my joy of trading Melo to Wizars and Amare to Bobcats.

[AVolumeScorer]

Kid's a sucker, real fan turns on association mode and rebuilds the Knicks. Not even Dolan can take away my joy of trading Melo to Wizars and Amare to Bobcats.

Carmelo and Jordan Crawford on one team?