Question from a non-Houston fan - why trade for a star?

jowglenn · Post #1 » by **jowglenn** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:17 pm

Hi Houston board!

I keep hearing about Houston trying to trade for a star, whether it's Dwight Howard, or Andrew Bynum, etc, etc, etc.

But personally, I think the Rockets are finally doing what they needed to do - tear it down, tank a bit, and rebuild. Personally, I see trade suggestions like, 'parsons, royce white, lamb, and 3 future 1sts for an unguaranteed Dwight and some bad contract' and am flabbergasted that people actually want to do such a trade.

I mean, look at the "big superstar trades" of recent years past, like the Carmelo and Deron trades, and you find they were generally winning trades for the team losing the superstar. Carmelo left Denver, and now they're a hot young team, filled with cheap and interesting youth. Already in the playoffs, and only getting better. Getting Gallo/Chandler/Moz/picks was a great return for them. Utah got Favors and picks, and they made the playoffs too!

Meanwhile the Knicks barely scraped into the playoffs (season saved by Lin) and the Nets were like awful as they possibly could be.

If you trade for Dwight, it'll be Lin/Martin/Dwight/crap, and it'll be a perennial false contender.

I think the Rockets are in a perfect position to tank for the draft and do a full rebuild.

You have solid young personnel - young 2nd/3rd year guys like Parsons, Lin, Asik (I assume chicago lets you have him), a quasi-rookie Montiejunas, 3 1st round picks (Lamb, White, Jones), plenty of random detritus that you can run during the tank season, try to get up their value (patterson, morris, brockman, leuer, livingston). And SOMEONE will give you something for Kevin Martin at the trade deadline, guaranteed.

Take all that, run it out there, go with a whole "young guns! Lin! fun!" thing and probably win 25 games. Draft high, develop all these young guys, grab one good 2013 FA and this could be a long-term contender.

Or, you know, trade it all for Dwight or Bynum or whatever and let them carry a depleted team with limited room for improvement.

I just don't get it. You finally are in a perfect spot to build a team organically, you have an incredibly ultra-likeable crew of guys, and you're in that perfect tank spot to land a high pick in 2013 (oh, and toronto's likely lotto pick).

Building through the draft and smart FA signings will win you games and make a team you'll love. Trading for a quasi-superstar won't.

Am I crazy?

MaxRider · Post #2 » by **MaxRider** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:24 pm

sell tickets

jowglenn · Post #3 » by **jowglenn** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:32 pm

MaxRider wrote:sell tickets

Jeremy Lin should help with that pretty handily.

ShumpertIsland · Post #4 » by **ShumpertIsland** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:58 pm

The idea of trading for a super start is

1. people like dwight only come once in every decade
2. Dwight and Lin combo can attract good free agents
3. The rockets are not as depleted as you wrote above

rocketseagles07 · Post #5 » by **rocketseagles07** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:16 pm

I am SO F'N tired of this question. Why trade for a star, MAYBE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT ONE. Everybody wants to follow the rebuild route as if it's a guarantee. Once again stop looking at OKC, they are the RARITY! Presti got all 3 top 5 picks right that he was LUCKY enough to get. Superstars attract other players which is a problem we have in Houston if you haven't noticed despite how nice/big the city is. All this summer league, young players, rebuild talk is for the birds. Potential is potential and stars are stars, I can't stand d12 with everything in me but he's a PROVEN star. Emphasis on the word proven....

aznkillabeezZz · Post #6 » by **aznkillabeezZz** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:45 pm

Our rookies have one of the highest values right now (because of the SL rankings, it matters). And they are very good assets to land a star like howard. Like it or not, people want potential to lose a star. And after the fail trade with nets, (in which i dont think was a fair trade either) the rockets are in pole position to land howard.

I don't think it will take all of our rookies to land howard. Howard wants to leave. Take the best deal and run with it, or risk to lose him for nothing. We will offer far better than what other teams can offer. We will give you picks, assets and take a few of your expensive duds off the team.

We have young studs in the team that Orlando can have, and use the picks to rebuild. Its by far the best offer they got for Howard. So quit crying about how we're lowballing you.

Delbosque123 · Post #7 » by **Delbosque123** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:55 pm

rocketseagles07 wrote:I am SO F'N tired of this question. Why trade for a star, MAYBE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT ONE. Everybody wants to follow the rebuild route as if it's a guarantee. Once again stop looking at OKC, they are the RARITY! Presti got all 3 top 5 picks right that he was LUCKY enough to get. Superstars attract other players which is a problem we have in Houston if you haven't noticed despite how nice/big the city is. All this summer league, young players, rebuild talk is for the birds. Potential is potential and stars are stars, I can't stand d12 with everything in me but he's a PROVEN star. Emphasis on the word proven....

So you really think acquiring Howard is going to attract all these FAs? Everybody and their mother know that the first chance Howard gets he's chunking dueces.
I take the risk of rebuilding and see where that takes us, instead of trading everything for one player (and 3-5 orlando players) and hope and pray the entire season he resigns.
And most likely he won't, what do we end up with?
Back at square one. A bunch of OK guys with big contracts......awesome.

rocketseagles07 · Post #8 » by **rocketseagles07** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:10 pm

Delbosque123 wrote:
rocketseagles07 wrote:I am SO F'N tired of this question. Why trade for a star, MAYBE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT ONE. Everybody wants to follow the rebuild route as if it's a guarantee. Once again stop looking at OKC, they are the RARITY! Presti got all 3 top 5 picks right that he was LUCKY enough to get. Superstars attract other players which is a problem we have in Houston if you haven't noticed despite how nice/big the city is. All this summer league, young players, rebuild talk is for the birds. Potential is potential and stars are stars, I can't stand d12 with everything in me but he's a PROVEN star. Emphasis on the word proven....

So you really think acquiring Howard is going to attract all these FAs? Everybody and their mother know that the first chance Howard gets he's chunking dueces.
I take the risk of rebuilding and see where that takes us, instead of trading everything for one player (and 3-5 orlando players) and hope and pray the entire season he resigns.
And most likely he won't, what do we end up with?
Back at square one. A bunch of OK guys with big contracts......awesome.

First of all the reports of us trading half our team for howard are false. The more bad contracts we take back the less we send out and vice versa. As far as Howard goes there really hasn't been ANY STAR IN HISTORY who has thrown away the money(25 mil) to re-sign. Lebron and Bosh were S&T deals so they didn't lose any money. Half the rockets fans have been screaming "stay the course" with the players we had and guess what, Morey realized that it was getting us nowhere. J.A. Adande wrote an article about howard this weekend titled "the case for howard in houston" and here's a quote from it: "History is against the salvation-through-the-draft model. Only six No. 1 overall draft picks have won a championship and a Most Valuable Player award while playing for the team that drafted them." As far as you asking will howard attract other fa's here come on are you serious? You remember that team that has the best player in the world that just won a ring, guess what if d. wade wasn't there he wouldn't be in a heat uniform....

texasholdem · Post #9 » by **texasholdem** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:14 pm

Kevin Martin for Al Jefferson. Both expiring contracts. Both have younger replacements waiting in the wings (Kanter and Favors for Jefferson and Lamb and Lee? for Martin)

Jefferson isn't the defensive stoppers like Howard, Bynum and Asik are but he is a much better post up player than any of them.

Jefferson has a good history with McHale so he's more likely to re-sign with Houston than either Howard or Bynum.

Post #10 » by **Mr. E** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:15 pm

I think that if the Rockets were really willing to give up as much as some have reported then Dwight would already be here. If the deal happens I think some people will be surprised at what is involved.

zapatasblood · Post #11 » by **zapatasblood** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:34 pm

Rockets may want Dwight but they are not desperate get him. They have set themselves up to take two paths get Howard or rebuild.

MaxRider · Post #12 » by **MaxRider** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:35 pm

Mr. E wrote:I think that if the Rockets were really willing to give up as much as some have reported then Dwight would already be here. If the deal happens I think some people will be surprised at what is involved.

from what i heard the offer is Martin+pick only 1 out of the 3 2012 picks (Lamb, White, Jones)+Toronto lottery pick and some fillers we got from Milwaukee (not 100% guaranteed contract) for Howard+Davis+Duhon+Richardson
so it's actually not as good as ESPN reported

spolgar · Post #13 » by **spolgar** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:37 pm

A bird in hand is worth five in the bush?

College Boy · Post #14 » by **College Boy** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:49 pm

spolgar wrote:A bird in hand is worth five in the bush?

A sane man has spoken.

KiDdFrESh · Post #15 » by **KiDdFrESh** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:26 pm

Because we are tired of mediocrity.

xclearscreen · Post #16 » by **xclearscreen** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:42 am

whatever they do, do not trade away lamb. the guy is going to be great. long, fast, athletic, can shoot and can drive. his length will bother a lot of players. trade white, the guy needs to bang down low and be as tough as he looks, but unfortunately, he's not so tough. his dribbling skills are good but isn't really all that necessary since he's slow anyways and we have guards that do that well. trade machado, he's not even a back up role worthy. trade motie, he's a center but likes to hang out in the perimeter, smh. too soft, doesn't bang down low, no defense. maybe good for the mavs but not on this team.

if the rockets can package kmart with the rookies (white, machado, motie) then go for it. just don't trade away lamb.

Zubby · Post #17 » by **Zubby** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:40 am

^^ wait what!?!
Waht are you talking about? Even if you watch 1/2 a SL game you wouldnt say any of that.

Machado is undrafted, so how could we trade him he is not even on the team... but if he were he would be the best ball handler.

Motiejunas is a pf, and he definitely "bangs down low" When C-Webb & McHale rave about a 4... its best to listen.

White has bullied everyone in SL... just needs to work on his shot. I also think he is the rookie passer, and would probably be the best passer on this team, I know only 4 SL games BUT some of his passes were just WTF smack somebodies mamma good.

xclearscreen · Post #18 » by **xclearscreen** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:52 am

lol @ machado being the best ball handler and white being the best passer on this team.

Motiejunas is a 7 footer, not sure if that is without shoes or not but he doesn't play like a center nor a power foward. i'm guessing cwebb and mchale is saying he's a 4 because he's not a good 5. he likes to camp out in the perimeter and shoot 3's but he's a streaky shooter. he doesn't bang down low, below average rebounder, and poor defender.

white is 6'8" with shoes. good height for a small forward but bad for a power forward. he has the moves, handles and passing abilities but in the nba, he's too bulky, can't shoot, and too slow for that position. i have a feeling mchale will try to make him a power forward but he will not succeed in that position either because of his height and defense. even if he does some post up moves successfully, he will be met by an nba center down low most of the time. the only way he can become successful in the nba is if he plays the pick and roll with lin. he's fast enough to set a good pick and can roll to the basket, catch a pass and make a quick move to score or dish it back out to a shooter out on the wing.

Zubby · Post #19 » by **Zubby** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:14 pm

Who do you suppose is the best dribbler? Lin's knock his he has no left hand, and I notice in NY many times the had someone else bring the ball up cause he couldn't do it securely.
I can rule Parsons out, he is good but obvious Mach & Livingston are better, and I just assumed Livingston would be traded...

I no its not a great test of strength but Motiejunas had Myers Leonard on his heels all game when they played.

Sampson 7'4
Nowitzki 7'0
Garnett 7'0

All PF's...

xclearscreen · Post #20 » by **xclearscreen** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:59 pm

wow. sampson and dream, the "twin towers" was pretty awesome. both #1 picks, both lean and agile and had great offensive low post moves, dream of course had much more offensive weapons, defense, and was an all around better player. if motie and asik can become that kind of "twin towers", that would be great.

the whole "lin can't bring the ball up" and "lin can't go left" thing is just bs talk initially spread around by his haters, SAS and ASSola. the kid can't have these limitations and still be able to light it up in his first 20 starts in the highest level of basketball. also factor in how teams where game planning against him with traps, double, even triple teamed him. he just does everything else so well that the media tries to find holes in his game that are just not there. not going to go too much into this as it has been talked about hundreds of times everywhere and there are videos to debunk these things.