Official Speculation Thread (Pt.XLI Off-Season Edition)

[Def Swami]

Also, D12 is a great player, but as great as he is, he needs a Robin. He needs some help from the perimeter. No one on our team can create off the dribble, for themselves, or anyone else. D12 has lacked the consistent, perimeter scorer in 8 years of his career. Monta fits the bill. Monta/D12 isn't winning a championship alone, but it's a good foundation. It's so difficult to find scorers like that in the league and if you have the opportunity to pair one with a dominant big, you got a chance to build something very good.

If we're saying that D12 will never win a championship or be a player to build around, then who is? Are we really saying the league is now KD and LBJ and nothing else? I don't buy that. There is potential to build a good team around him if he buys into it. We just need guys who excel at their roles and can be depended on.

I guess the debate is this: Is Dwight Batman or is he Robin?

Is he the guy that can take over a game?

No question he impacts the game defensively.

In a critical juncture in a critical game who do go to get you the points? Would he typically the first choice?

Nothing wrong with being Robin. Scottie Pippen is a top all-time player and a phenomenal all-around player, but he didn't have the "it" factor to lead a team like MJ did, imo.

Absolutely. He's not a good leader. But I think placing good players that aren't necessarily all-stars around him can still make a great team that can contend. So many champions are accused of being "small" in their shortcomings (e.g. Dirk and Lebron). But with maturity and the right team, it can be done. No doubt that the talent and skill is their with D12. But his shortcoming remains to be free throw shooting, which leads to the lack of 4th quarter production. Give him a guy who can score in the 4th and I think it's the making of a monster.

To be honest, if he just waits a year, the Magic can potentially put a very good team on the floor. Something along the lines of Monta/JJ/Iggy/BBD/D12 and we can debate it, but I think that team gives the Heat trouble.

[MagicFan101]

I guess the debate is this: Is Dwight Batman or is he Robin?

Is he the guy that can take over a game?

No question he impacts the game defensively.

In a critical juncture in a critical game who do go to get you the points? Would he typically the first choice?

Nothing wrong with being Robin. Scottie Pippen is a top all-time player and a phenomenal all-around player, but he didn't have the "it" factor to lead a team like MJ did, imo.

I fully agree. I actually believe that the idea of pairing Dwight with a Chris Paul type of player would be less effective than pairing him with a Kevin Durant or a (healthy) Derrick Rose. Dwight loses the ball in the paint a lot. He is better suited to be the clean up man who does the dirty work, tortures opposing scorers and allows the star (i.e. Batman) to do his thing. Sure the highlight reels with a great passer would be incredible, but this isn't the Harlem Globetrotters.

Dwight needs to realize that on a great team he should be no more than the #3 option on offense. I would prefer to have him sucking up the double teams while a dominant scorer controls the ball with a deadly sharp shooter patrolling the 3 line. We have Dwight as well as JJ (and other shooters), Orlando really just needs a go to scorer. Otis tried to find that with Carter and then Arenas but those guys were over the hill. Ellis could have been a nice answer...

[Def Swami]

Real interesting stuff from that AK article:

In recent days, the Magic have shifted their attention away from the ongoing trade talks and focused on persuading Howard to remain in Orlando. Hennigan and his staff will travel to Los Angeles later this week to meet face-to-face with Howard and deliver a presentation designed to persuade Howard to return to the Magic. Hennigan is determined to fix the strained relationship between the player and the organization, and he’s hopeful that Howard will resume his career in Orlando.

Hennigan asked Howard to drop his trade demand during a phone conversation two weeks ago, but the six-time All-Star reiterated his desire to be traded. Now, however, Howard has agreed to meet with the Magic and sources within the organization are optimistic that they can change his stance with this pitch.

It’s no secret that Howard has wanted to join the Brooklyn Nets for quite some time. Now, with the Nets out of the picture for at least six months, the Magic are hoping that Howard is open to a return rather than settling on another destination like Los Angeles, which Howard seemed hesitant to commit to until recently. Howard doesn’t have many options, which is one reason Orlando is hopeful he’ll be willing to return.

Over the next several days, the Magic are expected to hire a head coach and whoever they hire will likely be in attendance when Hennigan and his staff meet with Howard in Los Angeles. Jacque Vaughn is the frontrunner, but Michael Curry and Lindsey Hunter are also finalists for the job.

The presentation part makes me believe Hennigan does have a plan and a pitch to D12. And the fact that the coach may be present is also interesting to me.

[mhectorgato]

Also, D12 is a great player, but as great as he is, he needs a Robin. He needs some help from the perimeter. No one on our team can create off the dribble, for themselves, or anyone else. D12 has lacked the consistent, perimeter scorer in 8 years of his career. Monta fits the bill. Monta/D12 isn't winning a championship alone, but it's a good foundation. It's so difficult to find scorers like that in the league and if you have the opportunity to pair one with a dominant big, you got a chance to build something very good.

If we're saying that D12 will never win a championship or be a player to build around, then who is? Are we really saying the league is now KD and LBJ and nothing else? I don't buy that. There is potential to build a good team around him if he buys into it. We just need guys who excel at their roles and can be depended on.

I guess the debate is this: Is Dwight Batman or is he Robin?

Is he the guy that can take over a game?

No question he impacts the game defensively.

In a critical juncture in a critical game who do go to get you the points? Would he typically the first choice?

Nothing wrong with being Robin. Scottie Pippen is a top all-time player and a phenomenal all-around player, but he didn't have the "it" factor to lead a team like MJ did, imo.

Absolutely. He's not a good leader. But I think placing good players that aren't necessarily all-stars around him can still make a great team that can contend. So many champions are accused of being "small" in their shortcomings (e.g. Dirk and Lebron). But with maturity and the right team, it can be done. No doubt that the talent and skill is their with D12. But his shortcoming remains to be free throw shooting, which leads to the lack of 4th quarter production. Give him a guy who can score in the 4th and I think it's the making of a monster.

To be honest, if he just waits a year, the Magic can potentially put a very good team on the floor. Something along the lines of Monta/JJ/Iggy/BBD/D12 and we can debate it, but I think that team gives the Heat trouble.

imo, his offensive issues are not just limited to free throws. He has a tendancy to will force ill-advised shots when the positioning is just not there. His lower body strength isn't on par with his upper body and pure athleticism.

[OrlandoMajinBuu]

At the end of the day, 99% of these players are nothing more than uneducated monkeys here for our entertainment. It would be foolish of us to expect rational thought or strong decision making from such primitive creatures.

You sir, Are an idiot.

Typical. Blurting out prejudice statements from the safety of their computer. Smh.

Probably, He's very well protected, I smell Norton around there...

[cvMagic]

I'll root for the Magic, just not Dwight. If he does something good I will just yell "good job member of the Orlando Magic".

That said, keeping him is an absolutely awful idea. He is wildly overrated. We would be doing ourselves a favor if we head in a different direction.

Hopefully people like you don't attend games.

At the end of the day, 99% of these players are nothing more than uneducated monkeys here for our entertainment. It would be foolish of us to expect rational thought or strong decision making from such primitive creatures. It is understandable to be frustrated with the current offseason, we all are, but once the season starts anyone wearing an Orlando Magic uniform will be getting cheers from all of the true Orlando fans.

This is literally the most ignorant post I have read on any message board. Please go back to searching for the President's birth certificate and stop posting here.

In return, I will get back in my time machine, leave the 1930's to you and your kind, and get back to the good old present day so I can converse with sane Magic fans.

[bigmoe1952]

I'll root for the Magic, just not Dwight. If he does something good I will just yell "good job member of the Orlando Magic".

That said, keeping him is an absolutely awful idea. He is wildly overrated. We would be doing ourselves a favor if we head in a different direction.

Hopefully people like you don't attend games.

At the end of the day, 99% of these players are nothing more than uneducated monkeys here for our entertainment. It would be foolish of us to expect rational thought or strong decision making from such primitive creatures. It is understandable to be frustrated with the current offseason, we all are, but once the season starts anyone wearing an Orlando Magic uniform will be getting cheers from all of the true Orlando fans.

This is literally the most ignorant post I have read on any message board. Please go back to searching for the President's birth certificate and stop posting here.

In return, I will get back in my time machine, leave the 1930's to you and your kind, and get back to the good old present day so I can converse with sane Magic fans.

Your president birth certificate remark is equally ignorant. Keep your politics out of this.

[Def Swami]

imo, his offensive issues are not just limited to free throws. He has a tendancy to will force ill-advised shots when the positioning is just not there. His lower body strength isn't on par with his upper body and pure athleticism.

I can agree with that. But that's why I still think that he could use a consistent, perimeter scorer to help relieve the pressure to be a #1 option on offense. I don't think there's anyone else on our team that you can depend on to score 16-18+ ppg on a given night. Every good team has to have 2-3 guys who can do so and put the ball in the hole.

[bigmoe1952]

I hope Hennigan fails to convince Howard. He WILL NOT bring this city a championship. I know a lot of you think he will but Howard is a complementing player. His offense is limited. The Magic will need some stars to pull off getting a ring. This will be a major mistake if they bring Howard back. Mark my words. And HE WILL continue to be poison to the team. He has serious character flaws, not to mention a number of flaws in his game.

[Nyce_1]

As someone mentioned on twitter, this last trip may just be a publicity stunt to show they attempted to convince Dwight one last time. Makes it look like we really tried everything and he didn't want to buy into it. Save face for season ticket holders & fans.

[OrlChamps2030]

I'll root for the Magic, just not Dwight. If he does something good I will just yell "good job member of the Orlando Magic".

That said, keeping him is an absolutely awful idea. He is wildly overrated. We would be doing ourselves a favor if we head in a different direction.

Hopefully people like you don't attend games.

At the end of the day, 99% of these players are nothing more than uneducated monkey here for our entertainment. It would be foolish of us to expect rational thought or strong decision making from such primitive creatures. It is understandable to be frustrated with the current offseason, we all are, but once the season starts anyone wearing an Orlando Magic uniform will be getting cheers from all of the true Orlando fans.

[T25]

As someone mentioned on twitter, this last trip may just be a publicity stunt to show they attempted to convince Dwight one last time. Makes it look like we really tried everything and he didn't want to buy into it. Save face for season ticket holders & fans.

I agree with u Nyce, also to add that I believe this is Hennigan not wanting to stay idle waiting on the Houston deal on Aug 5th. This way he shows good faith trying to convince Dwight to stay to the fans as a last shot right before we pull the trigger on Houston deal.

[Ballah]

If we're saying that D12 will never win a championship or be a player to build around, then who is? Are we really saying the league is now KD and LBJ and nothing else? I don't buy that. There is potential to build a good team around him if he buys into it. We just need guys who excel at their roles and can be depended on.

You build around a go-to scorer, around the guy you can give the ball too and expect him to carry you to a win. Kobe and Wade of a few years ago, KD and LBJ, Rose. Nobody looks at those players and says "they need a dominant big man to win a title" even though some of them have had them. Having Dwight around would make a championship much much easier, but he can't be the main piece.

[Chet Wagner]

No they don't. All reports say he's asking ....

Anything after the bold part doesn't matter. If you believe all reports, then Dwight would be in Brooklyn right now; or was it LA? Agents and other "sources" leak any info to guide their own agendas or manipulate public opinion where it suits them. We have no idea what Rob has truly asked or what has truly been offered.

Except I'm taking about reliable sources like Aldridge, while the Cavs/Brooklyn rumors were done by people like Ping and Bucher. Do I really have to clarify that I'm not including Twitter fakes like Chad Evans and the like when I say sources? All reports by people who actually matter have been saying things like this for a long time

Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
The Magic are taking their time. They continue to negotiate with the Lakers and Rockets, but are in no rush to trade Dwight Howard.

-David Aldridge
-Talks between the two sides are “not active,” one source said Friday.
-“There’s nothing happening,” another source said.

And that's what my whole post was about - the idea that the Magic are not truly trying to trade Dwight. And imagine that - right after my post, there's news that they are heading to LA to meet with Dwight. It doesn't matter if reports of what Henny is asking for are right or wrong - the fact is he's trying to get him to stay, just like I said. Everything that has happened this offseason was hinting towards it, and there's confirmation with the LA trip

[TheLastDon]

Name 1 championship Big Man that didn't have a potent perimeter player or players??

Kareem had Magic and Worthy
Shaq had Kobe and D Wade
Wilt had Jerry West
Russell had Cousy, Havlichek
Duncan had Parker, Ginobili,
Hakeem had Cassell, Kenny Smith, Drexler

[Last Guardian]

Dwight anchored a finals team with Alston/Lee backcourt. Okay, doesn't exactly tell the whole story. Near 20pt scorers in Hedo and Rashard, both of whom were the guys we went to when the game was on the line. Don't act like Dwight did it by himself.

I am not saying Dwight can't be a piece to winning a championship, he just isn't the focal point. Watch him if he goes to LA. That will be the perfect example. He won't be anywhere near the focus and he will be in the perfect role.

If Dwight packs on 30lbs and keeps his athleticism I'll gladly eat crow when he is scoring at will. But for now he just isn't good enough to be the centerpiece. He'll win in his current state taking a backseat to someone like Kobe.

[tiderulz]

If Hennigan has a plan, then I support him trying to keep D12. Get him some help on the court and the guy will stay.

why do you assume this? Why does anyone not believe there is a possibility that Dwight does not want to be here. that he wants to be in a big city, young, rich and enjoying everything?

[SOUL]

i hope its a powerpoint presentation

[OrlChamps2030]

Dwight anchored a finals team with Alston/Lee backcourt. Okay, doesn't exactly tell the whole story. Near 20pt scorers in Hedo and Rashard, both of whom were the guys we went to when the game was on the line. Don't act like Dwight did it by himself.

I am not saying Dwight can't be a piece to winning a championship, he just isn't the focal point. Watch him if he goes to LA. That will be the perfect example. He won't be anywhere near the focus and he will be in the perfect role.

If Dwight packs on 30lbs and keeps his athleticism I'll gladly eat crow when he is scoring at will. But for now he just isn't good enough to be the centerpiece. He'll win in his current state taking a backseat to someone like Kobe.

I agree with everything you've said. Dwight can be a #2 guy or maybe a #1B guy if there are enough potent scorers in the lineup, but to say Dwight carried a team with a core of Alston/Lee to the finals is a bit of an overstatement.

Rafer was a great floor-leader, Hedo and Rashard were clutch 20 ppg scorers who could stretch the floor, Pietrus was probably the best bench player in the playoffs that year, JJ locked Ray Allen down, Gortat played huge in the game he started in, and Anthony Johnson could dribble the ball past half-court. I don't think that team was very weak at all, that was a very special team IMO.

In fact, Dwight getting dominated by Odom and Gasol is one of the key reasons that finals series ended so early.

[MagicTownBaller]

It's fun watching Magical and Jarrod Rudolph fight on Twitter.