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Doug on "2014 Plan"

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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#101 » by Concept Coop » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:47 pm

RoseTheFuture22 wrote:
Concept Coop wrote:
Mech Engineer wrote:To wait for Mirotic or Kevin Love dream scenario( it is a lot of alignment) is really crazy.
Everybody knows you don't make hasty decisions. The biggest issue is don't hesitate to spend whichever the Bulls can when they have Rose healthy and optimize his complementary cast every year.

The Heat lucked into being a dynasty. We don't have the luxary of being bad enough to build the way OKC did; hell, we've gone that route and it didn't work. The Lakers got very lucky with Kobe and Bynum, and were gifted Gasol.

Those are not options for us to pursue. They are either going to happen by a future HOF deciding to come here, or they won't. You can't really plan for that.

Throwing money around isn't going to do anyone any good. Especially this season.

Absolutely right, Miami should NOT be a model for building a championship team. What we're trying to basically do right now is be the Spurs(post-Robinson) and luck into getting stars late in the draft like Tony and Manu. In order to get our true 2nd option we should really do it through trade, the draft and free agency can be used to find a 3rd option.

Or maybe not even the Spurs. This team can win a ring without getting a Manu and Parker late in the draft.

Say Rose was healthy and Garnett signed here for less money. Say Ray Allen also came and have us the Miami discount. Say Kevin Love wants out. Say Dwight changes his mind about us at the trade deadline. Eric Gordon. Etcetera.

There are ways to improve IF we are flexible. Signing Asik and paying tax because "it's not our money - pay for a winner" REALLY hurts our flexibility.

If Derrick Rose is back to being a top 10 player, and the Bulls can move some money around - they will be able to make the big moves everyone is crying for them to make now. Only, they won't need to take on so much risk in doing so.
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#102 » by veji1 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:52 pm

DuckIII wrote:Here is my view of doug's article. Which is a dim view, though doug knows I respect him immensely as a sports writer.

Regarding his take on the Bulls' theoritical 2014 plan, even if you accept the theory of it (which is that the 2014 plan even exists, and if it does, means using the money on free agency rather than to facilitate trades, which are two very big assumptions), the numbers he uses to establish an absence of max capspace aren't even consistent with the existence of the plan. Here is his premise:

The theory goes that the Bulls will be maximum room under the cap in order to make a bunch of moves, however, it's unlikely to work out nearly so well in practice.


Here is the conclusion:

They'll have less than max cap room to fill out the team.


Here are his assumptions to reach it (with a presumed cap of $62 million):

That puts them at 39 million. Let's assume they keep Taj Gibson, now the salary is back up to 48-50 million.


(a) If the plan is to actually go after free agents, and get as much possible to do so, why would I assume the Bulls will retain Gibson at all rather than trade him for a cheaper asset (like a mid-first round pick, which he's presumably worth, or another young player with more years on his rookie deal yet to come)?

(b) Or, if that is is the plan, why would I assume that Taj's deal would be in the $10-$11 million range in that year (or in any year, frankly). For starters, that likely exceeds his market value. Which is admittedly a guess. But more importantly, if the Bulls are actually attacking a 2014 plan, they won't pay him that since it harms the plan.

(c) Or he gets $9 mil per (far more reasonable) and then the Bulls have $14 mil under the cap, which brings me to this:

Butler
Teague
2 rookies


Why am I assuming these contracts will all be on the books? The Bulls, if max space is their actual plan, will simply dump the next two first round picks, or Teague or Butler or some combination thereof, to reach their goal. They did this before when they packaged Hinrich and dumped a first to the Wizards. Prior to 2010, teams dumped first rounders to keep those salaries off the books. Its a standard strategy.

Again, its doug's assumption this is the plan, not mine. I'm just showing that if it IS the plan, the hurdles doug jumps to reach the conclusion that there will not be max space are, in my view, invalid and inconsistent with the assumption of the plan's existence.

Then doug names off possible free agents and says, essentially, "who knows?" Always a valid point regarding any plan. Such as with regard to the following supposedly superior plan:

Now instead of this, let's say the Bulls dumped Deng for Richard Jefferson and Harrison Barnes, a deal that was reportedly on the table. The Bulls would add Barnes and about four million in salary to this current core. All of a sudden things look a lot better. Maybe they also dumped Noah for Thomas Robinson, a deal that may have also been on the table, and they don't keep Taj Gibson and amnesty Boozer immediately.


The "who knows?" assumptions: (1) The first deal was even on the table at all, as reported; (2) that deal, if available, was completely without regard to who was going to be available when GS picked (i.e., if Barnes was there, as he was, GS still would have done it); (3) even more tenuously, the completely unrumored Noah for Robinson deal was available; and (4) most importantly, that Robinson and Barnes are equal to or better than Noah and Deng (which is a huge leap, given the statistical likelihood of success for any lottery pick) or that they even pan out as players of value at all.

Moreover, this speculative plan includes the use of capspace, which doug's criticism of the alleged current plan claims is not valuable because we likely won't get anyone. And if we won't get anyone, as an assumption, I'd rather have Deng and Noah at that stage than Barnes and Robinson, plus a 2013-14 plan that doesn't intentionally waste one fully healthy year of Rose's career (which doug's plan requires).

Final assumption:

If you were really playing for 2014 which of those situations is really better? The second one, it's not even close.


Which is that the "2104" plan completely ignores trying to win in 2013-14, which it obviously is not. Which is why the Bulls aren't trading Noah and Deng for lottery picks. It is not only illogical for the Bulls to burn 2 years of Rose's career, but it is also clearly not the plan. And you'd have to assume it to be the plan for any of this to make sense. Yes, the Bulls appear to have a plan that involves 2014, but it is not one geared to completely sacrifice Rose's next fully healthy year when all indications are that they will still be in a position to field a contending team that year.

In short, the 2014 plan is equivalent to the underwear gnome plan

1: Make it to 2014
2: ????
3: Championship


Which renders it identical to Doug's plan, only with less question marks, since Noah and Deng are known commodities.


+lots.

I am not going to get back to all the points you raised. Just to address the Gibson issue. I think the FO has learnt its lesson with Asik. They will do their best to get Gibson to sign a long deal to ensure financial security that reflects his good value, yet also limitations (limited shooting abilities, size which means that he cannot cover the 5 for too long). The FO will try to get him to sign a reasonnable deal along the 30/5 line (ideally) but more realistically the 35/5 line. Now it will be up to him to take it or not and the FO will not lets itself be cornered and will trade him if they cannot get it done. But I honestly think that once the new CBA is in full flow, 30 o 35/5 will actually be a good deal for Taj.
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#103 » by Rerisen » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:57 pm

Concept Coop wrote:This line of thinking doesn't work. Teams stay in the lottery for YEARS and never get out. Hell, we did it, before stumbling into Derrick Rose.


I don't think trading Deng or Gibson for a pick would put us in the lottery though. When you have a great superstar like Rose you are too good to be that bad.

Which is really part of the whole problem of how do you get better. Or get a better salary structure. Unfortunately one of the few ways is to trade existing talent for those picks.

And that actually isn't all that crazy if all your existing talent is about to get paid at mature market value, while other ones will be lost (Asik, Korver), leaving you in a place still not good enough to win if you carry on with it.

It'd be a retool not a tank.

And it's not too late for the team to have that plan to move on this season. But if Deng simply expires or we don't match Taj, then the yarn is just kind of going to spin off the reel without anything productive resulting.
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#104 » by Concept Coop » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:57 pm

Wingy wrote:
Concept Coop wrote:
Wingy wrote:Why would we be doing a sign and trade? Do you mean trade and extend?


A trade and extend is a sign and trade. I was using Love as an example, if he pulled a Dwight and demanded out.

Whether it is a sign and trade or simply a trade, again, if you don't have the cap space, you can't make the trade.


I'm probably just looking at it wrong, but I see sign/trade as something that's always occurred after the player has already hit the open market...whereas a trade and extend occurred while they still had time on their deal (ie - trade deadline trade).

Again, I could be offbase, but I'm talking trade before they actually expire so you have to give salary back to get said star and I don't understand why they'd dislike Omer since he's just a walking expiring contract at that point in there to match salary in a trade.

A team might like Asik as an expiring. But one expiring that big is hard to move in a deal for a superstar. If Omer is simply a bench player, it will be a huge obstacle. Now, if that contract was broken up into 3 guys - we could add one to Deng + picks. But expecting someone to take Omer + Deng is asking someone to take on 28 million in salary.

Now, let's say we want to sign someone outright. That is nearly impossible, as nobody is going to give us PURE releif for Asik, for one year. They are going to require us to take salary back. That could mean no money for Player X.
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#105 » by Concept Coop » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:02 pm

Rerisen wrote:
Concept Coop wrote:This line of thinking doesn't work. Teams stay in the lottery for YEARS and never get out. Hell, we did it, before stumbling into Derrick Rose.


I don't think trading Deng or Gibson for a pick would put us in the lottery though. When you have a great superstar like Rose you are too good to be that bad.

Which is really part of the whole problem of how do you get better. Or get a better salary structure. Unfortunately one of the few ways is to trade existing talent for those picks.

And that actually isn't all that crazy if all your existing talent is about to get paid at mature market value, while other ones will be lost (Asik, Korver), leaving you in a place still not good enough to win if you carry on with it.

It'd be a retool not a tank.

And it's not too late for the team to have that plan to move on this season. But if Deng simply expires or we don't match Taj, then the yarn is just kind of going to spin off the reel without anything productive resulting.
Maybe not the lottery, but a major step back - short term, at the very least.

Why trade Deng for a guy we hope can be Deng one day AND another bad contract? Especially when Deng is clearly a movable asset? Again, if we need to move Deng's contract to get a better player, we can do it. Why do it now, hurt the team, and hope the extra money comes in handy?

We are re-tooling. We are moving forward, while becoming increasingly flexible. We are taking the best players with the picks we have and making good moves as moves are presented to us.
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#106 » by KissedByaRose1 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:04 pm

There's no FA I see in 2014 that would realistically come here and putusover the top.

At this point I honestly think Gar/Pax are banking on Kevin Love demanding a trade out of Minnesota and hoping that Chicago is on his list.

I'm not optimistic.
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#107 » by Concept Coop » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:06 pm

KissedByaRose1 wrote:There's no FA I see in 2014 that would realistically come here and putusover the top.

At this point I honestly think Gar/Pax are banking on Kevin Love demanding a trade out of Minnesota and hoping that Chicago is on his list.

I'm not optimistic.

So blow it up?

Gar/Pax is facing things as they come. They are building the best, most flexible team they can. That is all you can realistically ask for in a FO.
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#108 » by Rerisen » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:09 pm

Concept Coop wrote:Especially when Deng is clearly a movable asset? .


I'm open to trading Deng talent for talent for a better fit. Whoever one imagines that to be. Rudy Gay, Kevin Martin, whatever.

But if the Bulls did that, do they now have enough cast left on the team that this even puts us where we need to be vs Miami. like it would have much more so the last two years?

Because if it doesn't, then you have the same questions with the new guy as with Deng. When does their deal run out. How much do you retain them at, etc.

If you are aiming for 2014 say, then getting youthful talent might be better.

I also think we have been open to talks about Deng for a couple years now, and no team wants to give up a star type, or even #2 scorer for him.

Only the top teams in the league really have top scoring options in place to where Deng would be great as 3rd option for them. L.A. he would, Miami ironically, but they won't give us Bosh. Teams like that with 1 and 2 in place would be great for Deng, but more likely they'd want to trade you another third option, who won't be better with what all Deng does.

You can read fan opinions for these lesser teams, say Golden State or Toronto, and Deng is always prized the lowest of any comparable players that he is possibly as good as, but not as much a scoring threat. Rudy Gay, Iggy, Granger, all these fans always value those guys more, though I don't think they necessarily make more impact in the right environment. But you can understand that those type of teams lacking true superstars themselves would want players that can at least be poor man versions of those superstars first, because their team doesn't have the luxury to be adding the glue guy or ultimate role player like Deng.
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#109 » by MGB8 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:15 pm

Re Deng:

It's statistically less likely than not that a mid lotto pick becomes as good as Deng. But it is far from outside the realm of possibility that such a pick is as good (and quickly) or even better. The higher the pick, the better the chance, but each pick has that possibility, even late picks.

The goal in moving Deng would be to get, effectively, two assets - two lotto tickets - back for him. One is the pick - high enough to make the potential possibility worthwhile. The other is the cap space. Hopefully to use on a great FA (or in a sign and trade).

If you moved Deng this season, then you'd get a third "benefit" - you'd make the Bulls worse in this already lost season, and thus improve the Bulls draft pick. And if you do it for someone who expires this year rather then next, then you have two years FA classes to try with, rather than just one.

The only reason the Bulls are a contending team right now is lucking into draft picks - lucking into the #1 pick with Rose, having Noah fall to them.

Get the assets, take shots, hope. Because, unless Deng is willing to sign onto a "value" contract, the current composition of the team is not contention worthy.

If the goal is to be an also ran... ok. But if that's the goal, I have better things to do with my time.
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#110 » by Wingy » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:17 pm

Concept Coop wrote:
Wingy wrote:
Concept Coop wrote:
A trade and extend is a sign and trade. I was using Love as an example, if he pulled a Dwight and demanded out.

Whether it is a sign and trade or simply a trade, again, if you don't have the cap space, you can't make the trade.


I'm probably just looking at it wrong, but I see sign/trade as something that's always occurred after the player has already hit the open market...whereas a trade and extend occurred while they still had time on their deal (ie - trade deadline trade).

Again, I could be offbase, but I'm talking trade before they actually expire so you have to give salary back to get said star and I don't understand why they'd dislike Omer since he's just a walking expiring contract at that point in there to match salary in a trade.

A team might like Asik as an expiring. But one expiring that big is hard to move in a deal for a superstar. If Omer is simply a bench player, it will be a huge obstacle. Now, if that contract was broken up into 3 guys - we could add one to Deng + picks. But expecting someone to take Omer + Deng is asking someone to take on 28 million in salary.

Now, let's say we want to sign someone outright. That is nearly impossible, as nobody is going to give us PURE releif for Asik, for one year. They are going to require us to take salary back. That could mean no money for Player X.


I don't see why it's so hard to move for a star since that star is going to be making Omer 3rd year money or more.

Another item that's already been discussed - who is this guy we are signing outright that's going to make a significant difference in the next 2 years? I see no one in the next 2 FA classes that fits that bill...and to get that space we're losing Taj.
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#111 » by Concept Coop » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:17 pm

Rerisen wrote:
Concept Coop wrote:Especially when Deng is clearly a movable asset? .


I'm open to trading Deng talent for talent for a better fit. Whoever one imagines that to be. Rudy Gay, Kevin Martin, whatever.

But if the Bulls did that, do they now have enough cast left on the team that this even puts us where we need to be vs Miami. like it would have much more so the last two years?

Because if it doesn't, then you have the same questions with the new guy as with Deng. When does their deal run out. How much do you retain them at, etc.

If you are aiming for 2014 say, then getting youthful talent might be better.

I also think we have been open to talks about Deng for a couple years now, and no team wants to give up a star type, or even #2 scorer for him.

Only the top teams in the league really have top scoring options in place to where Deng would be great as 3rd option for them. L.A. he would, Miami ironically, but they won't give us Bosh. Teams like that with 1 and 2 in place would be great for Deng, but more likely they'd want to trade you another third option, who won't be better with what all Deng does.

You can read fan opinions for these lesser teams, say Golden State or Toronto, and Deng is always prized the lowest of any comparable players that he is possibly as good as, but not as much a scoring threat. Rudy Gay, Iggy, Granger, all these fans always value those guys more, though I don't think they necessarily make more impact in the right environment. But you can understand that those type of teams lacking true superstars themselves would want players that can at least be poor man versions of those superstars first, because their team doesn't have the luxury to be adding the glue guy or ultimate role player like Deng.

Of course you move Deng for an equal, better fitting player. But that isn't realistic - scoring is a premium. That also wasn't my point.

We don't need to move Deng for Barnes and a bad contract, yet. It doesn't save us enough money, and it makes us a lesser team. If we do need to do something like that, in order to get an All-Star level player, we can at that point.
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#112 » by greenl » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:22 pm

The plan for 2014? The Bulls need some luck. Premium talent in the NBA is scarce- thus the teams that somehow manage to acquire enough of it- always seem to do so because they were the beneficiaries of luck. Some were really lucky- some were a little lucky. But the Bulls need to be ready to pounce when luck comes a knocking. An available disgruntled star (Love), a free agent acquisition (???), a trade, etc. Every great team is the beneficiary of luck- though we like to chalk it up to intangibles.
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#113 » by kyrv » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:25 pm

BuffaloBull wrote:
boogydown wrote:2014 Plan = Trade Before the 2014 Plan Ever Happens

That's my 2014 Plan

We'll make a key trade in the 2013-2014 Season


Yup. People get worked up with a need to define a specific plan or player and it isn't about that. It's about having assets and flexibility to make a deal when one presents itself.

The Bulls thought Asik was an asset. They offered him the most money they could. But on Houston's deal, you really can't move him without some serious manuverings because he is untradable year one, poison pill year 2, and 15 mill in year 3. A four year deal would've been easier to manage because the money would have been even in years 3 and 4.

The options for getting players are a 1. straight trade 2. sign and trade 3. sign with cap space 4. draft. With the new CBA, if you go over the apron, it takes #2 off the table. Completely. The Lakers couldn't have gotten Steve Nash, next year, even with a trade exception like that had. That won't be permitted.

That's why the Bulls didn't make a move for a bad contract + assets (like the Ben Gordon deal) this offseason. Because next year you would be over the apron, and even if there was a sign and trade you wanted to do, you wouldn't be able to do it.

I'm fairly convinced the 2014 "plan" isn't about getting pure capspace. To me, it is an opportunity to have the flexibility to get that #2 guy. So when the next "Dwight Howard" situation arises, the Bulls will be able to offer a team a lot of different options. And the guy has to want to come here.

The key is to have no bad assets in 2014. And that will probably happen. Amnesty Boozer, Deng a UFA (so a roster option). In all likelihood only Rose, Noah, and Taj, on longterm deals, the rest of the team on rookie salaries or shortterm money. You'll be able to offer teams young players, draft picks, a core guy (Taj or possibly Luol in a sign and trade) and if neccessary, you should be able to make capspace by moving guys that have value. Omer at 15million has the potential to mess that up by being a negative value contract: a guy you have to give assets to move. And that's exactly what Gar said with why we didn't keep him, that the houston contract endangered getting top tier talent in the future.

The Bulls are playing a long game. They are going to build through the draft, and wait for a blockbuster deal to materialize. They aren't going to sacrifice their assets and flexibility, though, to add complementary pieces to a core that isn't complete. And I'm good with that.


Well said. I feel there's a disconnect, and I think it's left over (and understandable) from 2010 when teams were specifically clearing space for people who were going to be free agents.

I don't think this is the case.

Also - pretending both deals were available, are we saying Barnes and Robinson are better than Deng and Noah?

Let me get this straight, yesterday I read a very good writer say the bottom half of the roster was the core, and ripped the Bulls for losing them. Today I read an even better writer say they should have traded the actual core? I hope people appreciate how rare it is for elite teams to just trade away their 2nd and 3rd best players for unknown commodities. In any sport. And there's a reason for that.
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#114 » by Wingy » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:26 pm

I still don't get the NJ / Dwight example and how the new rule is applicable.

I feel like Orlando's leverage comes from the fact that they have Dwight under contract...not from some new CBA rule.

If he were an UFA and could just sign outright with NJ, of course they'd be screwed. Dwight isn't though, so they can choose to not like what NJ is selling and trade with some non-risk averse team like Houston, or arrange a 3 way deal with LA and some team Bynum will re-up with or is willing to risk on Bynum walking.

That doesn't seem like the rule is stopping anything. It's Dwight being under contract that gives Orlando the leverage and some teams not giving a crap that he says he only wants NJ.
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#115 » by Concept Coop » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:26 pm

Wingy wrote:I don't see why it's so hard to move for a star since that star is going to be making Omer 3rd year money or more.

Another item that's already been discussed - who is this guy we are signing outright that's going to make a significant difference in the next 2 years? I see no one in the next 2 FA classes that fits that bill...and to get that space we're losing Taj.


I just explained why it is so hard. It's 15 million towards our books that we have to navigate.
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#116 » by northbrookrich » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:26 pm

Duck said pretty much everything I wanted to say, but I wanted to echo a couple of things. Figuring out what the league is going to look like and what all-stars want to leave their current teams in 2014 is impossible. Just as impossible is an assertion that the Bulls won't have cap space in 2014 to sign anyone. Depending on who wanted to come to the Bulls (whether a free agent or a disgruntled player that wants off his current team), the Bulls could give up any player other than Rose to make it happen (either in a sign and trade or in a salary dump trade). So, to worry about Taj's contract putting the Bulls combined salary too high to sign someone is just not sensical. I'd like to assume that even if the Bulls sign Taj, that they will sign him to a market deal so that they could trade him away without any trouble if they needed to clear the cap space. If they were going after a center, they could trade Noah. If they were going after a PF, they could trade Taj. If they were going after a backcourt player, they could include Butler or Teague or their draft picks.

The only plan the Bulls need to worry about now is to try and avoid paying lux tax and ensure that they have flexibility once Rose is healthy. No one is going to admit it publicy right now, but 2012/2013 is a wash year without Rose and (likely) without Deng for a good chunk of the season. Next year they can assess whether they want to compete around the Rose/Deng/Noah core. Boozer will have a chance next year to put up stats so that the Bulls can either trade him or use him as part of an contending 2013 team.
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#117 » by Wingy » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:29 pm

Concept Coop wrote:
Wingy wrote:I don't see why it's so hard to move for a star since that star is going to be making Omer 3rd year money or more.

Another item that's already been discussed - who is this guy we are signing outright that's going to make a significant difference in the next 2 years? I see no one in the next 2 FA classes that fits that bill...and to get that space we're losing Taj.


I just explained why it is so hard. It's 15 million towards our books that we have to navigate.


...yeah, 2 years from now when it's a trade asset in the year we want to be making trades..and before that it's a value contract.

You have to navigate it if your plan is 2014 FAs. Again...who are your 2014 FA targets?
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#118 » by te887848 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:30 pm

Nobody really knows for a fact whether a top 10 pick for Deng offer was on the table. "Rumors" are thrown around and "sources" speculate all the time, but most of what they report never comes true. If you were one of those teams with a top 10 pick, would you trade it for a banged up Deng making more than he is worth?
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#119 » by thunderspirit » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:33 pm

Concept Coop wrote:
Wingy wrote:I don't see why it's so hard to move for a star since that star is going to be making Omer 3rd year money or more.

Another item that's already been discussed - who is this guy we are signing outright that's going to make a significant difference in the next 2 years? I see no one in the next 2 FA classes that fits that bill...and to get that space we're losing Taj.


I just explained why it is so hard. It's 15 million towards our books that we have to navigate.

...and, any time a team is above the tax apron, that team cannot execute a sign-and-trade to acquire a player. Nor can a team execute a sign-and-trade that takes them above that apron amount.

Essentially, a team above the tax apron loses the avenue by which nearly every star player has been dealt in the past decade or so -- the sign-and-trade.
gf2020hotmail wrote:Random fact only tangentially related to the thread: I once slept with Dan Majerle's children. It was amazing..
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Re: Doug on "2014 Plan" 

Post#120 » by DuckIII » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:34 pm

nycrich wrote: Next year they can assess whether they want to compete around the Rose/Deng/Noah core. Boozer will have a chance next year to put up stats so that the Bulls can either trade him or use him as part of an contending 2013 team.


Any plan that assumes a team with Rose, Deng, Noah, Taj, Boozer and . . . . Butler, Hinrich, whomever . . . cannot be a contender in 2013-14, and should therefore be scrapped in favor of draft picks and free agency money (that we'll have even if we don't dump all those guys), is a terrible, awful plan.

+ everything that ConceptCoop has been saying.

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