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OT- Gunman kills 12, wounds 71 In Batman movie theatre film

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Re: OT- Gunman kills 12, wounds 71 In Batman movie theatre f 

Post#61 » by YFZblu » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:56 pm

The Knarf Eel wrote:What are the 'Mass Murder' rates in other countries. Other than brutal dictators... do they occur in Austrailia, Europe, Asia etc.... The only one that comes to mind is the one in Norway. Keep in mind, there is a distinct line separating a terrorist from a crazed killer.

The US seems to average about one lunatic gun killing spree a yr.


Gun control would probably not stop the types of killings you're referring to. Someone who planned and calculated to the point of manufacturing bombs will take the time to find a gun, even if they're illegal.

IMO initially all gun control would do is take guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. I don't think any of us can speculate how it would work long-term, but what I do know is prohibition doesn't have a very high success rate in this country.
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Re: OT- Gunman kills 12, wounds 71 In Batman movie theatre f 

Post#62 » by Sun Scorched » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:58 pm

It seems to me that we are a society that shifts more and more of the blame away from the individual and towards corporations/government/3rd party interests/etc.

Who gives a **** about gun laws. Why are we worried about gun laws? Seriously? Why aren't we more concerned about the unbelievably sick and twisted quim of a man that was allowed to live, breathe and plan this atrocity?

It's like trying to do open heart surgury on someone who got shot in the head. Ain't gonna solve the problem.
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Re: OT- Gunman kills 12, wounds 71 In Batman movie theatre f 

Post#63 » by RaisingArizona » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:16 pm

Criminals don't follow laws, a gun law rule stating guns are illegal wouldn't completely solve anything. It might make it more difficult for the amateur criminal but guys like this nut would find a way to do it.

I think the issue that people keep missing is beefing up the police force. More money needs to be spent on fire, police and education in order to keep people safe and educated in our future. Seems that the current president never lived up to his promises on funding those ventures.
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Re: OT- Gunman kills 12, wounds 71 In Batman movie theatre f 

Post#64 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:07 am

The argument that gun laws don't work because criminals don't follow laws is unbelieveably flawed. That's like saying, oh well criminals will be criminals so don't bother with gun laws, guns for everyone! The assumptions that criminals will all of a sudden stop becoming criminals because of laws is not the reason for implementation. The point is to make guns very difficult to obtain. Assuming most gun crimes occur with stolen weapons, by limiting the amount of guns available (to be stolen), the lower the chance such crimes are likely to occur.

Now I would hate to be insensitive, but with what happened in Colorado, some may argue that if everyone (assumption being everyone in that theatre being a "law abiding citizen") was carrying a weapon, the tragedy that occurred wouldn't have had happened to that extent. But at the same time, as crazy as it seems, I (personally) would be more afraid of 20-30 people pulling out their piece and start firing in the smoke filled theatre hoping to stop the shooter. The chances of stray shots hitting innocent bystanders would certainly have to be considered.
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Re: OT- Gunman kills 12, wounds 71 In Batman movie theatre f 

Post#65 » by navysully » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:48 am

lilfishi22 wrote:The argument that gun laws don't work because criminals don't follow laws is unbelieveably flawed. That's like saying, oh well criminals will be criminals so don't bother with gun laws, guns for everyone! The assumptions that criminals will all of a sudden stop becoming criminals because of laws is not the reason for implementation. The point is to make guns very difficult to obtain. Assuming most gun crimes occur with stolen weapons, by limiting the amount of guns available (to be stolen), the lower the chance such crimes are likely to occur.

Now I would hate to be insensitive, but with what happened in Colorado, some may argue that if everyone (assumption being everyone in that theatre being a "law abiding citizen") was carrying a weapon, the tragedy that occurred wouldn't have had happened to that extent. But at the same time, as crazy as it seems, I (personally) would be more afraid of 20-30 people pulling out their piece and start firing in the smoke filled theatre hoping to stop the shooter. The chances of stray shots hitting innocent bystanders would certainly have to be considered.


You're right. To stop internet piracy, lets just shut off the internet. To stop speeding, lets get rid of cars.

Not everyone should carry. Only law-abiding, responsible, trained, and vetted people should conceal carry. In Virginia, you have to undergo a thorough background investigation, be finger printed, show proof of government training, and pay a fee to get the license. You won't get 20 conceal carriers in a movie theater at once. Maybe one or two. Those one or two could have helped avert this tragedy.

The thing about Aurora, Colorado, is that they have very strict gun laws. People couldn't have carried in there as it is illegal, which is a damn shame. All of these mass tragedy shootings happen in gun free zones. What does that tell you?
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Re: OT- Gunman kills 12, wounds 71 In Batman movie theatre f 

Post#66 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:55 am

navysully wrote:You're right. To stop internet piracy, lets just shut off the internet. To stop speeding, lets get rid of cars.

Not everyone should carry. Only law-abiding, responsible, trained, and vetted people should conceal carry. In Virginia, you have to undergo a thorough background investigation, be finger printed, show proof of government training, and pay a fee to get the license. You won't get 20 conceal carriers in a movie theater at once. Maybe one or two. Those one or two could have helped avert this tragedy.

The thing about Aurora, Colorado, is that they have very strict gun laws. People couldn't have carried in there as it is illegal, which is a damn shame. All of these mass tragedy shootings happen in gun free zones. What does that tell you?


Cars and internet are a need in today's society but. They are vital to the economy and everyday life. But society doesn't need guns and nor should it have easy access to it. To say you need it for protection because the police won't protect you, is like saying every parent should take their child out of the school system to home school them because they can't protect them from bullies at school.

Obviously, every gun owner should be law-abiding, responsible, trained and vetted, but the amount of loopholes in which criminals can use to obtain a firearm (legal or not) is alarming. The shooter in the Colorado case, seemed like a normal guy, never been in trouble with the law, doing a Ph.D in neuroscience, he seems like the ideal candidate to be a gun owner. Yet, he had access to multiple weapons which he obtained legally. Not the mention the amount of ammunition he was able to get his hands without raising a red flag. Why would someone, ever need more than one weapon for self-protection anyway?

Would a concealed carrier really have helped? Sure, theoretically being able to end the shooters spree early would save lives, but what about in real life?How much would you trust those one or two potential concealed carriers to have had enough extensive training to be able to keep calm, line up a shot and take it, during all the chaos, being shot at and the smoke? Even trained soldiers would have trouble in that situation. Keep in mind, unloading your clip at the shooter is one thing, taking a carefully aimed shot admist everything going on, isnt' something you train for.

Gun-free zones doesn't stop these sprees, it stops smaller, more minor and likely more common incidents from occuring. The only way to limit these sprees from occuring, or at least lessen the effect of them, is to restrict access to these mass murdering tools. Now I'm not saying that if this guy was determined to do what he did, he wouldn't pay 5 - 10 more for an secondary market weapon, but it would most definitely limit the ability for even the most determined people to obtain these weapons.
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Re: OT- Gunman kills 12, wounds 71 In Batman movie theatre f 

Post#67 » by RaisingArizona » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:15 am

There's already millions of guns out there- good luck getting them confiscated if we did enforce a no gun rule.
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Re: OT- Gunman kills 12, wounds 71 In Batman movie theatre f 

Post#68 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:19 am

ginobiliflops wrote:There's already millions of guns out there- good luck getting them confiscated if we did enforce a no gun rule.


Probably. Oh well
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Re: OT- Gunman kills 12, wounds 71 In Batman movie theatre f 

Post#69 » by RaisingArizona » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:36 am

I hear you though. I find it frightening that in AZ, you can legally carry most places.
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Re: OT- Gunman kills 12, wounds 71 In Batman movie theatre f 

Post#70 » by mybloodisorange » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:06 am

Whether you are for or against guns you have to recognize this country was founded by frontiersmen who needed them also they wanted the people armed as a standing militia in case England gets any bright ideas again :p Thats why we have the 2nd ammendment.

That being said when that document was written tear gas grenades, assualt rifles, rocket propelled grenades, drones, attack helicoptors, nuclear weapons...my point being military technology has really changed the world that we live in compared to back then.

The NRA has a paid army of lawyers and lobbyists working around the clock to back every pro-gun and to fight every anti-gun piece of legislation in the country regardless of what it is. And people eat it up; I laugh when paranoid gun nuts speak in hushed tones about how the government wants to come and taking all their guns away. I you call that the Nugent factor lol.
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Re: OT- Gunman kills 12, wounds 71 In Batman movie theatre f 

Post#71 » by YFZblu » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:32 pm

mybloodisorange wrote:That being said when that document was written tear gas grenades, assualt rifles, rocket propelled grenades, drones, attack helicoptors, nuclear weapons...my point being military technology has really changed the world that we live in compared to back then.


..when was the last time a civilian in the United States used an attack helicopter, a nuclear weapon, or a drone to commit a mass killing?

And as someone already stated, when the early form of the handgun was implemented it wasn't seen as an inaccurate inefficient weapon. It's not like people were saying "oh, these things SUCK", so people can have them...
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Re: OT- Gunman kills 12, wounds 71 In Batman movie theatre f 

Post#72 » by YFZblu » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:35 pm

ginobiliflops wrote:I hear you though. I find it frightening that in AZ, you can legally carry most places.


It's not like people in Arizona are armed in public everywhere you go. I lived in Arizona for 27 years and I can count the number of weapons I saw in public on one hand.
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Re: OT- Gunman kills 12, wounds 71 In Batman movie theatre f 

Post#73 » by mybloodisorange » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:47 pm

YFZblu wrote:
mybloodisorange wrote:That being said when that document was written tear gas grenades, assualt rifles, rocket propelled grenades, drones, attack helicoptors, nuclear weapons...my point being military technology has really changed the world that we live in compared to back then.


..when was the last time a civilian in the United States used an attack helicopter, a nuclear weapon, or a drone to commit a mass killing?

And as someone already stated, when the early form of the handgun was implemented it wasn't seen as an inaccurate inefficient weapon. It's not like people were saying "oh, these things SUCK", so people can have them...


My point wasnt that they decided to allow people to bear arms due to their ineffectiveness. My point was the world and the technology in it are vastly different from the world the founding fathers lived it. The supreme court has ruled the second ammendment means we as citizens have the right to defend ourselves and our homes with arms. There is no reason as a culture we cannot set up reasonable rules regarding the differences with military/law enforcement, sport shooting/hunting and self defense. You have to realize the NRA spends millions every year to convince the public that any type of gun rule or regulation means that uncle Sam is going to knock on your door and take all of your guns away. while at the same time the are lobbying our legislators directly pouring millions into their campaign funds. The solution is somewhere in the middle like with anything; issues like these are very complex and layered with the pro and anti gun advocates doing most of the talking. Most sensible people can see the middle ground.

And considering that my sister shot herself in the head with a handgun you would think I would be very anti-gun. But im not. Like with anything I see both sides have valid points in some areas and both sides are over reaching in certain other areas.
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Re: OT- Gunman kills 12, wounds 71 In Batman movie theatre f 

Post#74 » by rsavaj » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:46 pm

Sorry about your sister, man. That's really rough.
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Re: OT- Gunman kills 12, wounds 71 In Batman movie theatre f 

Post#75 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:59 pm

Truly terrible thing to happen to your sister.
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Re: OT- Gunman kills 12, wounds 71 In Batman movie theatre f 

Post#76 » by mybloodisorange » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:08 am

Thanks-i'm pretty much over it at this point. It was just wierd at first because she didnt leave a note and did it with her boyfriends gun even though she had her own. And the cops said that most gun based suicides are males; they said almost all women use pills. Just an interesting random tidbit of info no idea if its true or not.

But in case you were wondering no I dont think he did it. He is still to this day really torn up; they were actually engaged to be married. Plus he had a good story so I honestly dont think there was any foul play involved. He said that she had recently purchased her handgun and hadnt gone shooting with it yet so he thinks that she used his gone because she was more familiar with it. And as bad as the situation looked at first it does make sense and he really had no motive. He was also the one who found her when he came home on his lunch break so im sure that wasnt easy either.

But my nephews are 22 and 24 and they will never know why she did it so the moral of the story is if you absolutely have to do it, please leave a damned note.
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