3 Way Trade in the Making

[Stebo_SSK]

Once again you have problems reading sir. Howard's value is irrelevant to the discussion. As my previous post said before you glossed over it. You are acting as if Cleveland and LA in a 2 way trade wouldn't be Varejao, Thompson and a 1st pick. I never said Bynum wasn't an impact player, I said in those threads that Bynum is not a franchise LEADER. If LA had an all star PG on the roster such as CP3 or Dwill Id have less of an issue continuing with Bynum. Bynum played an avg of 35 MPG this year with no major issues so get your facts straight. So I'm still trying to figure out this imaginary value gap that I'm supposedly wanting the Cavs to bridge here.

You're one that is taking an issue with this because it involves the Lakers. Exactly where is Cleveland getting shafted by trading a 29 year old role player that has limited offense, an unproven rookie in Waiters or a very raw player in Thompson who is more the 2nd coming of Stromile Swift than the next KG and a 1st round pick that is Top 13 protected? The max that Kings pick will land you is a 14-30 player? Thats bridging the value gap?

Another issue with your view is that you assume Cleveland would take this trade without being able to sit down with Bynum and his agent to guage his interest in the team. Im almost positive no trade goes down unless there is a major chance in resigning Bynum. If Bynum leaves 30 million on the table his next option is Dallas with an aging Dirk or ATL who has the worst ownership in basketball almost. So again, stop trying to make this about some Laker fan trying to sell you on Bynum when in reality nothing me and you debate here makes one bit of difference in how Dan Gilbert feels or how Mitch Kupchak feels.

[rjgraca]

Once again you have problems reading sir. Howard's value is irrelevant to the discussion. As my previous post said before you glossed over it. You are acting as if Cleveland and LA in a 2 way trade wouldn't be Varejao, Thompson and a 1st pick. I never said Bynum wasn't an impact player, I said in those threads that Bynum is not a franchise LEADER. If LA had an all star PG on the roster such as CP3 or Dwill Id have less of an issue continuing with Bynum. Bynum played an avg of 35 MPG this year with no major issues so get your facts straight. So I'm still trying to figure out this imaginary value gap that I'm supposedly wanting the Cavs to bridge here.

You're one that is taking an issue with this because it involves the Lakers. Exactly where is Cleveland getting shafted by trading a 29 year old role player that has limited offense, an unproven rookie in Waiters or a very raw player in Thompson who is more the 2nd coming of Stromile Swift than the next KG and a 1st round pick that is Top 13 protected? The max that Kings pick will land you is a 14-30 player? Thats bridging the value gap?

Another issue with your view is that you assume Cleveland would take this trade without being able to sit down with Bynum and his agent to guage his interest in the team. Im almost positive no trade goes down unless there is a major chance in resigning Bynum. If Bynum leaves 30 million on the table his next option is Dallas with an aging Dirk or ATL who has the worst ownership in basketball almost. So again, stop trying to make this about some Laker fan trying to sell you on Bynum when in reality nothing me and you debate here makes one bit of difference in how Dan Gilbert feels or how Mitch Kupchak feels.

Once again you have problems, on the Cavs forum, in understanding that Bynum's value isn't anywhere near Howards value. Your still blowing smoke, teams wouldn't be interested in Thompson if he was Stromile Swift. Your key statement was last season when Bynum average 35 mpg and exclude thee years before with his inconsistency or injuries prior to that. If Bynum was as Healthy as you imply, he would be representing the USA in the Olympics like Kobe is.

A Laker's fans opinion has no bearing on whether Bynum would be a one year rental... so let's move on from that. Your glossing over important facts about Bynum value related to his productivity, health and signability... so yeah your a Laker fan trying to be a used car salesman on the Cavs forum.

Since you have such a high opinion of Bynum and his limited success, it would be prudent to keep Bynum and build around him while the Cavs put their assets to better use in future trades than a risky one year rental of Bynum. Like Howard stated that he wouldn't resign with a team he was traded to and he did not want to be there long-term, Bynum has that very same potential given his sometime erratic behavior--- your assurances are irrelevant.

[BossHoggin]

This reminds me of when the Celtics fans on message boards long ago were adamant about not trading Al Jefferson for Kevin Garnett. Let me tell you something - your prospects always look better to you.

You always ALWAYS try to get the best player in a trade. That's all that matters. You can think by your own subjective valuation that Andrew Bynum isn't worth that haul, but facts are facts ... Andrew Bynum is the best player in the deal (as compared to what the Cavs are trading away). And it's not just that he's the best player ... he's by far the best player in the deal. Again, you can tell the world every which way that Tristan Thompson is the next Tim Duncan, but he's just not. And by the time he might be worth a damn, he's coming off his rookie contract and then you're looking at Javale McGee at $40M.

This league is about stars. That's what wins you championships ... not first round picks and middling players on their rookie contracts. Kyrie and Bynum are stars. Period. It's not up for debate.

Dan Gilbert isn't dumb. He might be a maniacal d-bag that the league caters too much to because of LBJ's decision, but he's certainly not dumb. He knows this is the right move.

Was Kevin Garnett expiring when Boston traded for him?

[gflem]

What I dont get here is Stebo and RJ going back and forth about Howard's value or Bynum's value. Its not a one for one, the ancillary pieces are as important to Orlando, and possibly more important to Cleveland, and completely irrelevant to LA. The fact is that Bynum as a rental has no real value to Cleveland. Anybody saying that he has value to Cleveland because of Bird rights is deluding himself. I have some swampland in Florida if you are interested.
LA is looking to divest itself of Bynum because of his issues, and the fact that Dwight is better right now and Kobe's getting old. All they want is Howard, Bynum is the cost of getting Dwight, and anything else they have to add (accepting a bad contract) is okay as long as they can fit it in under the new CBA.
The Cavs would give up quite a lot imo if Bynum extends, but it doesnt make sense for him to do so it seems, so it doesnt seem that he will extend. In that case the Cavs have no real reason to do any deal, just stay the course and look to contend in the near future if they make the right choices with the picks and cap room they will have going forward.
Orlando is just plain screwed. Dwight doesnt want to be there, they cant contend even if he did and played to his potential. Every team knows they have to move him. The new CBA is working against them being able to move him, and he is coming off a somewhat serious injury. While he is the best player in any deal he would be involved in his value is much lower than what his production will be. Anybody who thinks otherwise is just wrong. The only way Orlando is getting anything near value for Dwight is if there is a deal between LA and Orlando Dwight for Bynum and whatever other pieces are needed to facilitate that deal. Adding another team to unload the bloated contracts that Orlando picked up to placate Dwight just reduces whatever return they hope to get for him. Period.

[BossHoggin]

The fact is that Bynum as a rental has no real value to Cleveland. Anybody saying that he has value to Cleveland because of Bird rights is deluding himself. I have some swampland in Florida if you are interested.

You need to remember most people who come on this subforum to bash the Cavs also think the Cavs turned down Amare for JJ Hickson. Common sense is not their strongest attribute. They'll also be the first to tell you how bad Cleveland the city sucks.

[SD Laker]

So just to get a general idea of viewpoints here...

Would you guys do this trade:

Cleveland Trades: Zeller, Thompson, Walton, Gibson, Casspi, 2013 Cavs pick, MIA/Lakers pick, Kings pick, Future 2nd
Cleveland Receives: Bynum, Davis, Duhon

Lakers Trade: Bynum, McRoberts, Eyenga, Goudelock, Future 2nd
Lakers Receive: Howard, Richardson

Magic Trade: Howard, Davis, Richardson, Duhon
Magic Receive: Zeller, Thompson, Goudelock, McRoberts, Eyenga, Walton, Gibson, Casspi, Cavs pick, MIA/LAL pick, Kings pick, Future 2nds from Cleveland/LAL

IMO, this benefits all teams.

The Cavs end up with a front court of Bynum/Verajao/Davis and a backcourt of Irving/Waiters. You guys would be scary good in a couple years when the big 3 Bynum/Waiters/Irving all hit their primes.

Magic dump their 3 worst contracts (Turkoglu isn't nearly as bad as you all think -- he can be bought out for 6 mil after this year), get a couple nice prospects in Thompson, Zeller, and a crap load of expirings. They're now sitting pretty with some young talent, ready to tank for now, and have a ton of cap space going forward. Only problem is they have 3 young PF's in Thompson, Zeller, and Nicholson. Maybe a fourth team can be included to remedy this? Or Waiters is subbed for Thompson.

Lakers get Howard. Enough said.

Thoughts?

[SD Laker]

And while I'm here I'll throw in my 2 cents on the Bynum debate.

The kid is coming off a season averaging 19 and 12 as a 2nd or 3rd option. And he wasn't just a normal 2nd option. He was the 2nd option to Kobe Bryant, who took the most shots in the league by a WIDE margin. The kid has an extremely refined offensive game, much more so than Howard, and has shown the potential to be a dominant player on that end when given the appropriate touches.

Defensively, he is above average. Is he on Dwight Howard or Tyson Chandler's level? No. But he can be an a fantastic one on one defender when he's focused... When's the last time you saw a guy get a triple double with blocked shots? That's insane! However, saying he's not exactly a mobile big would be an understatement. His pick and roll defense is atrocious, and that, combined with terrible defense from the point guard position has been an achilles heel of the Lakers for years. However, I believe that can be masked to some extend with a quick/athletic PG like Kyrie. Overall, he can be a defensive anchor that protects the basket, but he won't ever be an All-Defensive team type player.

Obviously, he is a fantastic rebounder, which is apparent by his numbers. Put up 30 rebounds in one game and averaged 12 per on the year. 'Nough said... He's not going to jump over guys for boards, but he can position his body very well. He's just bigger than everyone else on the floor and just out-muscles guys down low.

Regarding the attitude issues... It's not really as bad as bad as people make it out to be. He's only had a couple incidents like that. One was the JJ Barea cheap shot. That was out of frustration. Another was the 3 pointer that he got benched for. Really not a big deal. Then there was the "close-out games are actually kind of easy" commment. Stupid? Yeah. Big deal? No. He's had a few other one liners like "there are banks in every city" etc. But that can be attributed to the fact that he's been involved in trade rumors literally his entire career -- Jermaine O'Neal, Jason Kidd, KG, Melo, etc. Also, he mostly started acting out in this past year... His first under Mike Brown, who you guys would know first hand, isn't exactly a respectable authority figure on the level of Phil Jackson. Byron Scott is a much better coach. Bynum is a very intelligent kid, it's just that his youth gets the better of him at times. He's not the headcase that some make him out to be.

In conclusion, Drew is easily the 2nd best Center in the game, and it's not even close. Is he as good as Dwight? No, but it's not exactly like there's the Grand Canyon that separates them. Remember, Drew is only 24, and this was his first year really playing big minutes and being featured at all in the offense. He showed some big improvements this year, and that trend only figures to continue.

Ugh that was long.

[rjgraca]

So just to get a general idea of viewpoints here...

Would you guys do this trade:

Cleveland Trades: Zeller, Thompson, Walton, Gibson, Casspi, 2013 Cavs pick, MIA/Lakers pick, Kings pick, Future 2nd
Cleveland Receives: Bynum, Davis, Duhon

Lakers Trade: Bynum, McRoberts, Eyenga, Goudelock, Future 2nd
Lakers Receive: Howard, Richardson

Magic Trade: Howard, Davis, Richardson, Duhon
Magic Receive: Zeller, Thompson, Goudelock, McRoberts, Eyenga, Walton, Gibson, Casspi, Cavs pick, MIA/LAL pick, Kings pick, Future 2nds from Cleveland/LAL
Thoughts?

Sounds like Stebo has a new account. A one year rental of Bynum for two lottery picks (Thompson and Waiters) + 3 other first round picks + a second which doesn't make it more appealing. Not sure why some posters bother with these lopsided trades in favor of the Lakers. Both Davis and Duhon's bad contracts would take a first round pick each to move. Again, the Cavs would be giving up the most assets while not getting the best player in the deal (Howard). Bynum is not even close to Howards value with his first season of All-Star level performance verses Howards last 4 with two DPOY's. Even if Bynum extended, gutting the Cav's future would not be advisable combined with his physical and attitude risks. This proposed trade also burns up the Cavs cap space which is very valuable with the CBA's new punitive luxury tax kicking in after next season.

I am going to speculate that you never ran this proposed trade through the trade checker either.

We've seen Bynum exhibit immaturity issues in the past. Whether it be throwing a forearm shiver into the midsection of J.J. Barea or being benched for taking a three-pointer, the 24-year-old hasn't always been the picture of professionalism.

Howard is far superior to Bynum in most aspects, which is obviously why the Lakers would rather have the three-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year over their current center. The bad news for Los Angeles is that Bynum surely knows this too.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1264 ... snt-traded

He (Bynum) seriously undermined his breakout season by having a poisonous attitude. Bynum took an ill-advised three-pointer in one game, then proclaimed he'd keep shooting more. Bynum routinely stood out of team huddles, insisting he wanted to get "my Zen on." The Lakers fined Bynum for various transgressions, including missing a meeting with Kupchak. He annoyed teammates and personnel alike by playing loud music in the locker room before games. And the worst of all, Bynum admitted in all the Lakers' loss to Denver in the postseason that he lacked the necessary effort. It's possible Bynum could eventually grow into that. But he's already a seven-year veteran. With the Lakers' championship window closing, they can't afford to go through another season where Bynum's "figuring things out."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakersnow ... ?track=rss

[gflem]

The fact is that Bynum as a rental has no real value to Cleveland. Anybody saying that he has value to Cleveland because of Bird rights is deluding himself. I have some swampland in Florida if you are interested.

You need to remember most people who come on this subforum to bash the Cavs also think the Cavs turned down Amare for JJ Hickson. Common sense is not their strongest attribute. They'll also be the first to tell you how bad Cleveland the city sucks.

Yeah, I know. The whole Cleveland sucks vibe is alive and well here. And RJ is right as well, these trade proposals arent realistic. Even if Bynum is signed to a long term contract trading all of the assets included in these proposals kind of leaves the team as a 3,4,5 seed in the near future without a realistic chance to win it all. I would love to see Bynum here and I know that we would have to give up a good bit to get him, but adding any bad contracts (which has to happen) greatly reduces our ability to add pieces in free agency (which would be necessary to replace the players moved) thus reducing the amount of assets we should move to Orlando in any deal.
I think some of these posters just see the Cavs as the means to improve their own teams, without regard to our teams future or the stated rebuilding plan that the Cavs have been following. Its a bit frustrating, but not as bad as the LBJ to NY or Chi or where ever else crap we have dealt with in the past.

[Stebo_SSK]

Thats not my account dude...we can agree to disagree on this trade tho...makes no difference to me...ur team will continue to barely sniff playoff contention while Ill be rooting for a team that has a chance to win it all because they take real chances.

[tidho]

The fact is that Bynum as a rental has no real value to Cleveland. Anybody saying that he has value to Cleveland because of Bird rights is deluding himself. I have some swampland in Florida if you are interested.

I could use some land.

Certainly you want assurances that, at a minumum, Bynum would at least consider resigning here. I don't think there's a trade if he pulls a Howard and creates a list Cleveland isn't on.

That said, I do think Bynum's Bird rights has value. There is a big disparity between what he'd get with Cleveland and any other team. Even if that isn't enough to convince him to stay in Cleveland (and I think it would be) it is enough for his agent to pursue sign and trades from him which I could see returning a couple first rounders.

[SD Laker]

Its not Thompson and Waiters. Its Thompson and Zeller. Waiters not included. And where the hell will Bynum walk to? He'd give up a fifth year and 25 million dollars to walk to Dallas where they have what exactly? Cleveland is a much better situation.

And how exactly is it lop sided for the Lakers? They're giving up the 2nd best player in the deal and taking on the worst contract. Plus giving up a couple expirings. All the Cavs give up are two unproven rookies that may or may not turn into decent players and mid-late first round picks.

The trade that you're proposing that would send AV plus two first is ridiculous. You're quite the Cavs homer if you think that that will net you Bynum.

And here it is. Works in the trade machine. Just add Zeller to the Magic, as he can't be traded until August.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c3ajxen

Oh, and no, I'm not Stebo...

[rjgraca]

Its not Thompson and Waiters. Its Thompson and Zeller. Waiters not included. And where the hell will Bynum walk to? He'd give up a fifth year and 25 million dollars to walk to Dallas where they have what exactly? Cleveland is a much better situation.

And how exactly is it lop sided for the Lakers? They're giving up the 2nd best player in the deal and taking on the worst contract. Plus giving up a couple expirings. All the Cavs give up are two unproven rookies that may or may not turn into decent players and mid-late first round picks.

The trade that you're proposing that would send AV plus two first is ridiculous. You're quite the Cavs homer if you think that that will net you Bynum.

And here it is. Works in the trade machine. Just add Zeller to the Magic, as he can't be traded until August.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c3ajxen

Oh, and no, I'm not Stebo...

Oh, no your proposed trade for the Cavs rental Bynum is beyond ridiculous and absurd. Bynum is the only player with value that the Lakers are moving and his value isn't near Howards where the Cavs are compensating Orlando for Howard. I guess some entitled Laker fans can't stand making a fair deal and believe that Howard should be gift wrapped for them like Pau Gasol which have conditioned some Laker fans to lop sided deal feeling of entitlement.

Cap space is worth a lot with the new CBA and you have the Cavs burning through it and hand cuffing themselves like the Cavs were with the Larry Hughes deal after he came off an All-Star season and all defensive team.

Maybe Houston will give up a boat load of prospects and draft picks for a possible Bynum one year rental that you dream unrealistically another team will pony up for. Good luck Stebo relative.

Andrew Bynum should have opted for the Olympics

For once, the most probing question regarding Andrew Bynum doesn't involve his health.

Instead, the concern involves a much more unsettling issue. Constant maintenance on his knee can't solve it. A procedure overseas in Germany can't heal it. An off-season filled with rest won't necessaruly restore it.

Instead, everyone wonders whether Bynum will reshape his attitude. His exit interview with Lakers General Manager Mitch Kupchak and Mike Brown lasted an hour and a half, involving the need to stay mentally strong. Ex-Lakers remain split on whether the Lakers should shop Bynum for Magic center Dwight Howard or keep him. And despite Bynum's posting career-highs in points (18.7), shooting percentage (55.8%) and rebounds (11.8), the Lakers haven't signed him to a long-term extension after exercising their $16.1-million team option on them.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakersnow ... 7664.story

[SD Laker]

Ok. Well if you don't want your team to get better that's on you I guess... I still don't get why you think you'd be renting Bynum, but whatever. And of course you have to protect you're magical cap space in order to give middling free agents huge contracts because stars likely won't sign in Cle. I think you're seriously under rating Bynum, but I probably can't convince you because you pass me off as an "entitled" laker fan no matter what I say. Think about this though. When was the last time a superstar was traded for an all star starter in his prime? Super stars never get equal return when they're traded. This trade is by no means a steal for the Lakers. It's a big risk. Who knows what Howard's back is like and who knows how good Bynum will be in a couple years. Howard's value is at an all time low and Bynum is by far the 2nd best player in the trade.

But then again I'm and entitled laker fan so what do I know?

[Stebo_SSK]

@rjgraca If you would once actually give details on what the Cavs are doing as far as compensating Orlando for Howard for LA...what exactly is Bynum worth in a 2way trade between LA and Cleveland? Answer that and we can pretty much settle this whole damned debate. You keep talking this Laker BS but avoiding the actual questions that I ask. If you think this makes the team worst off then fine, if you dont think Bynum is that good then say that. Stop skipping around the conversation and making it about LA because quite frankly LA themselves wouldnt except Zeller, Varejao and 2 mid 1st rd picks for Bynum straight up. You gotta ask yourself who is really getting the short end of the stick in this deal? Its Orlando dude. Another thing you keep mentioning cap space. You guys have Luke Walton and Boobie Gibson sitting on ur roster making a combined 10 million plus that are expiring contracts. Orlando wants expiring contracts so how does not moving those and taking Bynum and maybe just maybe a player like Big Baby back at 6.4 million not make the team better?

Bynum, Davis, Gee, Waiters and Irving is a 6th to lower seed in the East.

Varejao, Thompson, Gee, Waiters and Irving probably isnt doing very well.

[gflem]

Ok. Well if you don't want your team to get better that's on you I guess... I still don't get why you think you'd be renting Bynum, but whatever. And of course you have to protect you're magical cap space in order to give middling free agents huge contracts because stars likely won't sign in Cle. I think you're seriously under rating Bynum, but I probably can't convince you because you pass me off as an "entitled" laker fan no matter what I say. Think about this though. When was the last time a superstar was traded for an all star starter in his prime? Super stars never get equal return when they're traded. This trade is by no means a steal for the Lakers. It's a big risk. Who knows what Howard's back is like and who knows how good Bynum will be in a couple years. Howard's value is at an all time low and Bynum is by far the 2nd best player in the trade.

But then again I'm and entitled laker fan so what do I know?

Of course we dont want our team to be better. I mean, if we dont give away whatever you want us to give so that your team can have Dwight we will never, ever, ever be any better. Right? If it is such a risk to take on Dwight, and Bynum is so underrated, why dont the Lakers just keep him? Why risk alienating him with all this talk about Dwight if his attitude is just fine? And of course you say stars dont want to come here but we should jeopardize the entire rebuild on blind faith that Bynum would re-sign. Why? Oh, thats right the Lakers want to help us by getting Bynum to Cleveland so they can take on all the risk that is Dwight. I see now. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

@rjgraca If you would once actually give details on what the Cavs are doing as far as compensating Orlando for Howard for LA...what exactly is Bynum worth in a 2way trade between LA and Cleveland? Answer that and we can pretty much settle this whole damned debate. You keep talking this Laker BS but avoiding the actual questions that I ask. If you think this makes the team worst off then fine, if you dont think Bynum is that good then say that. Stop skipping around the conversation and making it about LA because quite frankly LA themselves wouldnt except Zeller, Varejao and 2 mid 1st rd picks for Bynum straight up. You gotta ask yourself who is really getting the short end of the stick in this deal? Its Orlando dude. Another thing you keep mentioning cap space. You guys have Luke Walton and Boobie Gibson sitting on ur roster making a combined 10 million plus that are expiring contracts. Orlando wants expiring contracts so how does not moving those and taking Bynum and maybe just maybe a player like Big Baby back at 6.4 million not make the team better?

Bynum, Davis, Gee, Waiters and Irving is a 6th to lower seed in the East.

Varejao, Thompson, Gee, Waiters and Irving probably isnt doing very well.

The Cavs were in contention last season until Andy, and then Kyrie got hurt. You can look that up if you like. I will let RJ speak for himself, but exactly why are you so hung up on what Bynum is worth straight up when the deal is not straight up? I think I asked you this before but you chose not to answer. As for Luke and Boobie and their salaries, we are so far below the cap it makes no difference whether or not they are on the roster, in fact their value is as expirings and will increase near the deadline. Or, in a deal where we can pick up assets. We dont HAVE to move them to absorb contracts in the proposed Bynum deal.
I think you just cant/wont see that the only team involved in these discussions that has any real leverage is the Cavs. The Dwight/Bynum/third team deal is completely contingent on the third team. Why would any team involved as the third team give away picks/young players and absorb the terrible contracts just for the chance to try to re-sign Bynum. Any team that does that is giving away their leverage and risks the loss of all assets involved as well as near term salary flexibility that can be used to help facilitate deals that would bring back other assets.

[TheOUTLAW]

I am truly laughing at the argument that the Lakers are good because they take real chances. I've never seen a team luck into players or being gifted good players like the lakers have. Please tell me when they actually took a real chance on a player?

[SD Laker]

Ok. Well if you don't want your team to get better that's on you I guess... I still don't get why you think you'd be renting Bynum, but whatever. And of course you have to protect you're magical cap space in order to give middling free agents huge contracts because stars likely won't sign in Cle. I think you're seriously under rating Bynum, but I probably can't convince you because you pass me off as an "entitled" laker fan no matter what I say. Think about this though. When was the last time a superstar was traded for an all star starter in his prime? Super stars never get equal return when they're traded. This trade is by no means a steal for the Lakers. It's a big risk. Who knows what Howard's back is like and who knows how good Bynum will be in a couple years. Howard's value is at an all time low and Bynum is by far the 2nd best player in the trade.

But then again I'm and entitled laker fan so what do I know?

Of course we dont want our team to be better. I mean, if we dont give away whatever you want us to give so that your team can have Dwight we will never, ever, ever be any better. Right? If it is such a risk to take on Dwight, and Bynum is so underrated, why dont the Lakers just keep him? Why risk alienating him with all this talk about Dwight if his attitude is just fine? And of course you say stars dont want to come here but we should jeopardize the entire rebuild on blind faith that Bynum would re-sign. Why? Oh, thats right the Lakers want to help us by getting Bynum to Cleveland so they can take on all the risk that is Dwight. I see now. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

@rjgraca If you would once actually give details on what the Cavs are doing as far as compensating Orlando for Howard for LA...what exactly is Bynum worth in a 2way trade between LA and Cleveland? Answer that and we can pretty much settle this whole damned debate. You keep talking this Laker BS but avoiding the actual questions that I ask. If you think this makes the team worst off then fine, if you dont think Bynum is that good then say that. Stop skipping around the conversation and making it about LA because quite frankly LA themselves wouldnt except Zeller, Varejao and 2 mid 1st rd picks for Bynum straight up. You gotta ask yourself who is really getting the short end of the stick in this deal? Its Orlando dude. Another thing you keep mentioning cap space. You guys have Luke Walton and Boobie Gibson sitting on ur roster making a combined 10 million plus that are expiring contracts. Orlando wants expiring contracts so how does not moving those and taking Bynum and maybe just maybe a player like Big Baby back at 6.4 million not make the team better?

Bynum, Davis, Gee, Waiters and Irving is a 6th to lower seed in the East.

Varejao, Thompson, Gee, Waiters and Irving probably isnt doing very well.

The Cavs were in contention last season until Andy, and then Kyrie got hurt. You can look that up if you like. I will let RJ speak for himself, but exactly why are you so hung up on what Bynum is worth straight up when the deal is not straight up? I think I asked you this before but you chose not to answer. As for Luke and Boobie and their salaries, we are so far below the cap it makes no difference whether or not they are on the roster, in fact their value is as expirings and will increase near the deadline. Or, in a deal where we can pick up assets. We dont HAVE to move them to absorb contracts in the proposed Bynum deal.
I think you just cant/wont see that the only team involved in these discussions that has any real leverage is the Cavs. The Dwight/Bynum/third team deal is completely contingent on the third team. Why would any team involved as the third team give away picks/young players and absorb the terrible contracts just for the chance to try to re-sign Bynum. Any team that does that is giving away their leverage and risks the loss of all assets involved as well as near term salary flexibility that can be used to help facilitate deals that would bring back other assets.

Ok this will be my last post on this forum, which I'm sure most of you will appreciate .

The Lakers are in win now mode. Kobe is 34, Pau is 33, and Nash is 38. Dwight Howard is currently the better center than Bynum. That's why the Lakers want him. 3-4 years from now, there's a decent chance that Bynum is better than Howard. But we don't care about then because we can very well win a couple championships between now and then.

The fundamental difference in my line of thinking and yours is that I think a core of Bynum/Irving/Waiters/Verajao is more valuable than Verajao/Irving/Waiters/Zeller/Thompson/future late 1sts. You guys seem to believe its the other way around. We disagree. That's fine. Draft picks are extremely hard to hit on unless you're in the top 5. You guys lucked into Irving and LeBron by getting the first pick. With the improvement of Irving, you guys will still be in the lottery, but just not high enough to get a sure fire star. Remember, OKC got extremely lucky. Teams like the Kings, Raptors, Bobcats, etc. have been in the lottery and stock piling picks for years with nothing to show for it. IMO, hoping for Thompson, Zeller, and future late firsts to pan out is an even bigger risk than trading for Bynum. Look at past drafts and tell me just how many guys drafted outside the top 5 or 6 actually pan out.

I also believe that Bynum will 100% re-sign (not an extension for $$ reasons). Obviously, he can't or won't necessarily say that now because A) the trade isn't close to being done and B) He'd prefer to stay with the Lakers. The only other viable option is Dallas with an aging Dirk and a couple other pieces. In my opinion, and probably his too, that's not enough to make up the difference of an extra year and 20 million dollars. Plus, he has a future super star in Irving and possibly Waiters.

Regarding Cleveland's cap space, I'd like to examine the exploits of other small market teams and what they did with their cap room this summer. Houston gave Asik and Lin massive contracts. Pheonix gave Eric Gordon the max (coming of a season that he only played 8 games in due to knee injury), which NO had to match. Roy Hibbert got the max from Portland, which Indiana had to match. Roy Hibbert also got the max. Nick Batum got a massive contract. Brooke Lopez too (though not from a small market team). Are any of those guys worth those contracts? No. Now, would you rather have any of those guys eating cap space over Bynum? I'd guess not. If you do, then that's cool too, I would just disagree.

I just don't think Thompson, Zeller, and some late 1st rounders is overpaying for Bynum at all. Kyrie will be in Chris Paul's class in a couple short years, and Bynum will be in Howard's class in the same time frame. Who knows how Dion Waiters will develop, but I think he can be a Harden type player. That's a fantastic young core to build off, and one that I think could get you a top 3 seed in the east in by 2015, and possibly higher farther along than that.

I know most of you despise the Lakers and hate the idea of helping us get Howard, but I just think it's a great opprotunity to improve your team both now and in the future. If you don't agree, that's cool.

[SD Laker]

I am truly laughing at the argument that the Lakers are good because they take real chances. I've never seen a team luck into players or being gifted good players like the lakers have. Please tell me when they actually took a real chance on a player?

Ok I lied this is my last post.

That's a dumb argument, and it's not mine. Obviously, the Lakers don't win for the sole reason that they take risks...

I'm just saying that there is some risk in taking Howard, just like there is in taking Bynum, and that it's not like we're giving up nothing for Howard with absolutely no risk involved. There's only a short list of players in this league that I would trade Bynum for, and Dwight is near the bottom of that list. That is saying something.

[fart]

You guys are arguing over nothing considering that this trade more than likely will not happen, and if it does happen, I doubt it will be anytime soon.