D Ferry says Smoove is going NOWHERE

[Years80HAWKS]

So we are discussing whether the best player in our team right now is good or not? Then, are we going to discuss the quality of our 7th, 8th... men, or we can leave it as it is...

I would love to give a try at Josh at the 3, Horford at the 4 and any tall man who can intimidate, grab def rebounds and do not mess up on off at the 5. If we can dominate our basket, get rebounds, steal the ball frequently, close our paint so they have to shoot from far away, then we will be able to run.

I would love to see a fastbreak with a 215 lb Josh is running one of the lanes and Teague is taking the ball up-court. The other one can be occupied by Stevenson, or Williams waiting for the outside pass.

[Rip2137]

Jordan in his prime... Joe out of his prime... No comparison.

The bulls got where they were not with Jordan, but the combo Jordan/Pippen. Bulls had coach Phil Jackson... While Hawks had Mike Woodson. Bulls actually had a team surrounded around Jordan (and rightfully so). Hawks had a cluster f**k of PF that played 3 positions!!

Can't go off playoff wins or losses. Go off of the style and tools... an ISO Joe team is a first round knockout, but with our defense we are a 2nd round knockout.

Hawks are better off without Joe and his handcuffed contract. We are not better... But have more options.

It was more about you can't call a team that is constantly improving stagnant because of how their season ends. Every year the Bulls tweaked that lineup, players got better. So after years of going down to teams they made it over the top.

I am using this as an example to the people that want to blow things up because we didn't make it over the top in 4 seasons. We got better. If we had fired Woodson a year earlier and had a better coach than Drew, I think we would be further along. We will continue to get better. To single out Josh Smith, who has UNDOUBTEDLY gotten better every year as "not being good enough, lets dump him" is silly to me.


My same issue about Josh at the 3 has alway sbeen defensively against the "runners" at the 3 in the East and it would be pulling our best rim defender away from the rim. He means too much to our D to get in foul trouble trying to stay with Melo or Bron off the dribble or running throuugh screens chasing Deng, iggy or Granger Pierce. All the top teams in the east make it a mismatch at the 3. I have no problem on offense.

[Ruhiel]

We've gone over several of those before.
"pulling our best rim defender away from the rim"
perimeter players drive TO the rim, rides their hip, try to shoot over Josh, Josh blocks them. Better than staying under the rim and risking a foul.
Josh Smith defending the rim is nullified by posting him up, by taking it too his chest. This reason don't make no sense. Here Smith gets in foul trouble because the SF can't stay with Pierce and instead of Smith at the 3, you get him under the basket and Pierce licking his chops. Basically you have Josh playing center and Pierce licking his chops. Thats bad basketball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvyD9sABGCY


He means too much to our D to running through screens chasing Deng, iggy or Granger Pierce.

Deng tried to run through screens in 2011 and Josh stayed with him, even at 250 lbs and Deng got winded. Deng forte is cuts not running off screens.

Granger rarely comes off ball screens. He's more of a catch and shoot player and if Josh can make him take the bulk of the shots and contest them, AND keep him from involving his teammates then thats a win. But if Durant couldn't score with Josh as a 3, I'd think that Josh should be able to stick with Danny Granger.

Iguodala is the biggest "kerfuffle" on the list. Great role player Iguodala isn't very effective coming off screens. He spots up off of post players to score. Or he plays like Josh Smith. He gets nearly all his stats by rebounding and leading the break.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhRC459qZbk
Pierce does not "run" and Josh + 2 big men has locked Pierce's options down easily. Ther'd have to play him at the 4 to try to get the advantage back.


Lebron: the Heat will play Lebron at the 4 and that means Josh will have to guard him and his backup in the frontcourt will be Horford and a wing player. Morrow Or Korver on him is just a joke and self-fulfilling as far as needing Josh to play rim protecting center. If Deshawn, Josh, Al gets it done defensively and keeps the game close on offense fine.

I'd rather give the best shot with Josh on him and then see if they can corral him with Zaza and Al as his help behind him.

Melo: hahaha same as Lebron. You need multiple defenders behind him and Hawks match up better and can at least try to corral him and crowd the paint. I'm laughing because the only time the Hawks beat the Knicks last year was when Josh was forced to guard Melo and vice versa in Nellie-ball.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Dude practically carried the team after Horford went down. Did you calculate the numbers AFTER Horford was out?! Smith averaged 21 ppg, 11 rpg, 4 apg, and 2 bpg almost. That's after 55 games of not having Horford and starting the season off 7-4 to finish with a 40 win season in a shorten 66 game season. He has his bad moments, but his good moments heavily outweigh those and the Hawks record proved that.

I don't want to beat a dead horse here regarding Josh Smith.

I think I've made my opinions of him clear. My biggest conerns being: His shot selection, moodiness, inconsistency, lack of effort.

In a seven year career, he had a FANTASTIC 2 month stretch.

The other 6 years & 10 months have been...pretty mediocre. Again, he averaged 16 ppg & 8 rpg for the 3 years before that.

I just need to see the production over a longer period of time. And less pouting.

You have to be kidding me. Josh wasn't the most polished prospect coming out of high school and his jumper to this day proves it, but he has consistently improved in a lot of areas including his jumper, which a whole lot better than what it used to be. 16 & 8 with over 2 blocks per, 3-4 assist per, 1.5 steals perand above average to elite d is far from mediocre. Production is there. It may not be 20 ppg type production, Your argument is based solely on an agenda if that's what you're looking for. Sure He gripes and complains to the refs about legit calls majority of the time, but he is always playing to win. Kobe bitches all the time, and definitely Dwight, but you've probably endorsed having them on the team if it was possible.

[Jamaaliver]

I wouldn't say Josh has consistently gotten better. Over the past 7 years his numbers have fluctuated.

This isn't about Kobe or Dwight. Those guys have flaws, but are All Stars, All NBA, All Defense.

They've won division titles, Conference Titles and (in Kobe's case) NBA titles.

Josh Smith hasn't. He once avg 18 ppg and 9 rpg.

Once.

In 7 years.

He never lead our team in scoring, assists, FG%.

He once led our team rebounds (while AL was out). He often leads the team in turnovers.

From someone who plays and coaches basketball, I cringe everytime i watch him play. He has talent, but lacks fundamentals. He often gets frustrated and just doesn't get back on D. He takes terrible shots. He makes bad decisions.

I don't blame him for everything that is wrong with ATL. I just don't see the intangibles to be a superstar. I don't see the stats that make him a superstar. I see an above average player who is slowly losing his athhleticism, and since he never mastered the fundamentals....I believe he has reached is peak.

And now teams will be keying solely on him. The scouting report in the past was always based on stopping Joe and letting Josh take long jumpers. We'll see if he can handle having the opposing team focus solely on him. I predict...catastrophe.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Dude your agenda is so obvious, that its ridiculous.

[Jamaaliver]

Lucky for us, we get to see it all settled out on the court. As I've said before, I hope I'm wrong. And I'll publicly cop to it if I am.

If Josh becomes a Superstar, All Star or even a double-double man I will admit I was wrong many times over.

But in 7 years, he's broken my heart too many times. I have to see him break through to the next level.

[Ruhiel]

If Josh becomes a Superstar, All Star or even a double-double man I will admit I was wrong many times over.

Is that what people are still hanging onto? 1st option Josh?
Double-Double Josh is just Josh playing closer to 40mpg. He aint doing it otherwise.
All Star can mean a whole bunch of things, but the media is tired of Nellieball Josh. Like Sam Mitchell said He can stuff stats, he can get a highlight dunk off a turnover, or a broken play, but you as a coach what play do you run for him at the end of a game?

He breaks thorugh as a SF. Just like Iguodala. It just more pleasing to watch and you have less wtf-you-cant-get-a-better-shot-than-that moments.

digging in the crates found this ol bitty; funny enough athletic Smith stuggles with fat players, I also got Josh vs Scalabrine if yall want it
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKCqCeOVH4Y[/youtube]

maybe you run plays where he finds shooters now, but I can't help but think the same argument would be made if we had brought Hinrich, Stackhouse, McGrady, Marvin and Joe...

THe homerism can be embarassing at times. And all it is doing is holding Smith back, from being a respected player. Look what happened to Iguoidala when people stopped miscasting him as the next superstar. All-Star, Team USA B team, Olympics.