#2 Highest Peak of All Time (Shaq '00 wins)

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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#41 » by JordansBulls » Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:17 pm

drza wrote:I mentioned it in the last thread, but seriously...why isn't Russell even getting mentioned here? Starting from the overly simplistic accolades checklists and ending with the stat heads, it seems like Russell's peak should be tickling most of the "dominance" checkboxes on here:

1) In 1965 he won both the MVP and the ring. Had the awards existed that year, there's about a 99.9% chance he'd have also won both the DPoY and the Finals MVP as well. That mix of accolades and the ring has to be incredibly attractive to some of the voters in this project, who routinely use reasoning like that.

2) Russell's impact was quantifiable, as ElGee and the other stats folks in the RPoY project pointed out. The 1965 Celtics were the #1 defense in the NBA by more than 10 points per 100 possessions, and almost EIGHT points ahead of second place. That is domination by one unit on n order that is video game-like, and that defensive impact is clearly centered on Russell.

3) It can't be era, because Wilt of 2 years later was getting considerable attention for #1 all-time.

4) Russell led the RPoY project in total shares, and was voted 2nd overall in the top-100 project, despite the fact that his career was relatively short compared to the top guys at 13 years. So if he's not up there for longevity, almost by definition he had to have a GOAT peak, right? I mean, he won three RPoY votes unanimously, second only to Jordan (who's already voted in) in that project. So clearly it's not that folks on this board don't recognize his virtues.

I don't get it. Shaq was ridiculously dominant in 2000, and deserves his support. Same with Wilt, I suppose. Or any of the others that have been getting mentions so far. But I can't imagine why Russell shouldn't be on that same tier.


Would you use 1965 Russell though? Going 7 games against a team that was .500 and then winning game 7 by 1 point seems wouldn't make sense for a top peak all time. I'd use another season of Russsell if that was the case.
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#42 » by ThaRegul8r » Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:51 pm

PTB Fan wrote:I'm definitely voting Russell in my top 5. That '65 season was amazing. Remember, he played with an injury which he revealed after the Finals.


That was 1966, exactly. Red Auerbach's last season as coach.
I remember your posts from the RPOY project, you consistently brought it. Please continue to do so, sir. This board needs guys like you to counteract ... worthless posters


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1986-87 Magic 

Post#43 » by ThaRegul8r » Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:53 pm

An Unbiased Fan wrote:When speaking of the best peaks, I would think we would be comparing the best offensive & defensive peaks, along with the best 2-way peaks. MJ had a great offensive peak in 91', along with great defensive play. 87' Magic vs 64' Russell, how does that shake down? 64' Wilt vs 00' Shaq vs 94' Hakeem. 86' Bird vs 12' Lebron. What about 03' Duncan or 04' KG? Or great 2-way peaks like 06' Kobe & 94' DRob. I'm surprised at how few heated debates there have been.


Since obviously no one else is going to talk about some of these other people, I'll start with '87 Magic. I wasn't part of the Retro Player of the Year Project yet at that time, so it's someone different I haven't talked about here before.

New tricks
Lakers’ Magic adds scoring to act


Milwaukee Bucks Coach Don Nelson Tuesday was recalling a game four years ago between the Bucks and the Los Angeles Lakers in Inglewood, Calif.

“I used Charlie Criss on Magic Johnson,” said Nelson. “And he never posted Charlie up once. They never looked to go down in there. Now, you can’t do that.”

The enormity of that mismatch is obvious. Criss, a former Bucks guard, is 5 feet 8 inches. Johnson is 6-9. But, as Nelson said, that was then and this is now. With Johnson becoming a more assertive offensive player this season, it’s doubtful that anyone could get away with that kind of mismatch.

Johnson is posting up — playing near the basket to make better use of his height advantage against smaller defenders — a lot more than he used to.

The “new” Magic Johnson will be one of the Bucks’ many concerns when they play the Lakers at 7:30 p.m. Wednesday at the Arena. The Lakers have the best record in the National Basketball Association, 15-3.

They post Magic more,” said Nelson. “He’s gotten much more aggressive offensively, and he’s scoring more.”

That he is. Going into the Lakers’ game Tuesday night against the Knicks in New York, Johnson ranked 17th in scoring in the NBA, averaging 20.8 points a game. Johnson had 22 points in the Lakers’ 113-87 victoty over the Knicks. Johnson had a career scoring average of 18.3 points going into this season, his eighth in the NBA.

For the first time in his career, Johnson is leading the Lakers in scoring.

It’s true that Johnson is shooting more this season. He’s averaging 14.3 shots per game compared with 12.7 last season, and 7.8 free-throw attempts compared with 6 last season. But it’s not as if he isn’t giving up the ball. Johnson leads the league in assists, averaging 11.2 a game.

“The Lakers are awesome, just awesome,” says Nelson. “But it’s not just their talent. They’re well-coached, and they got the ball in the hands of a guy . . . is there a better guy to have handling the ball than Magic Johnson?”

New Jersey Nets Coach Dave Wohl, a former Lakers assistant, said the Post Up Magic Theory was something Lakers Coach Pat Riley toyed with when Wohl was with the Lakers.

That was something Pat always wanted to do,” said Wohl. “The problem is that Magic is so good with the ball and they have so many other weapons. It’s something you didn’t try to force.

The main thing, I think after last year, was they were looking for more variety offensively and to exploit more things. At the end of last year, I think Pat thought they were too predictable. In the half-court, it was always going into Kareem. Or else it was the running game. It was either-or.

“This year, they’re looking for more weapons to go to occasionally.


The Lakers do have some lethal weapons. Center Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, merely the most prolific scorer in the history of the game, ranks no better than third on the team in scoring behind Johnson and forward James Worthy.

Guard Byron Scott and swingman Michael Cooper also score in double figures and both rank in the top four in three-point field-goal percentage.

Wohl said that in a Lakers victory over New Jersey earlier this season, Johnson posted up only a couple of times. But the threat was always there.

“It’s not something they’re going to go to five, six or seven times in a row,” said Wohl. “Unless the mismatch is there or unless Kareem is out and they need Magic’s scoring.

“It’s not that Magic has been reluctant to post up in the past. He’s just never been a post-up player. Even in college.

“Part of it is just getting him comfortable there. He can catch and create there just as well once he gets comfortable.

Pat always liked him there but to change the half-court offense and to go to him time and again, everybody else would start standing around. What they’d like to do is find a nice balance.

Magic has gotten much more aggressive offensively. He’s looking for his shot. That’s a big plus. It’s opening up more things. You have to worry about him more.

He’s playing the best I’ve ever seen him play.”


In December of 1986, Kareem had to miss several games due to an eye problem.

Abdul-Jabbar out of action with eye woes

LOS ANGELES — Kareem Abdul-Jabbar has suffered a painful cornea disorder blamed on years of eye jabs during basketball games, and will not be able to play until at least Tuesday, the Los Angeles Lakers said Saturday.

“Apparently he’s been poked in the eye so many times in his career that something like this is going to happen from time to time,” team spokesman Josh Rosenfeld said. “When his cornea dries up he’s going to have a problem.”

The 39-year-old Abdul-Jabbar, the NBA’s first 18-season veteran and all-time leading scorer, has his right eye taped shut and patched and will be examined by doctors again Monday, Rosenfeld said.

Abdul-Jabbar’s eye began bothering him Friday during a flight to Dallas for Saturday night’s game against the Mavericks, Rosenfeld said. “When he awoke (Saturday) morning the eye was inflamed and watering,” he said.

The 7-foot-2 center, who for years has worn goggles to prevent eye injury, was treated by a Dallas doctor and told he had recurrent corneal erosion syndrome, Rosenfeld said. Abdul-Jabbar returned to Los Angeles on Saturday and will be examined by team doctors Monday.

In addition to the Dallas game, Abdul-Jabbar also will miss tonight’s Laker game against Houston, Rosenfeld said, adding that doctors will have to determine whether he’ll be fit to play Tuesday night at Sacramento.


And so just as he did in Game 6 of the 1980 NBA Finals, Magic took over.

Johnson levitates ‘Magic’ act to new heights

His team was without a legitimate center, so he elevated his own game a notch and raised the level of his teammates in the process. He averaged 39.3 points from the guard position, and every time his team was desperate for a basket, he somehow found a way to score.

No, not Michael Jordan. We’re talking about Earvin “Magic” Johnson. With Kareem Abdul-Jabbar sitting out because of a recurring corneal erosion syndrome in his right eye, the Magical one took matters into his own hands last week and reminded us that he, not Jordan, is the best guard in the National Basketball Association.

Magic scored 34 points in a losing cause at Dallas, then came back with 38 points (along with 16 assists, 8 rebounds, 3 steals and 2 turnovers) to lead the Los Angeles Lakers to victory the next night in Houston. He capped it off Tuesday by scoring a career-high 46 points in an overtime victory in Sacramento.

He put on a week-long show that summoned up memories of Game 6 of the 1980 NBA finals in his rookie season. Who could forget that performance? With Abdul-Jabbar sidelined and watching at home, Magic started at center and scored 42 points as the Lakers won at Philadelphia to sew up the title.

Once again, he has proven he can score whenever needed. But more important, Magic has demonstrated that precious ability — Larry Bird is the only player who compares — to shape the circumstances of his team, and make certain they do not lose.

The so-called experts — I humbly confess to having been among them — thought that the Lakers were ready for a slide this season. The feeling was that Pat Riley’s team had lost a step on the league, and its thin front line would enable other teams to overwhelm them late in the big games.

Magic hasn’t allowed it to happen. Riley told him to shoulder more of the scoring load, and he has dutifully responded. He is shooting more than at any time in his eight-year career and averaging 23.4 points a game, five above his career average.

And he is still getting his 11 or 12 assists a game, pulling down rebounds and sparking the Lakers’ brilliant perimeter defense. He has them playing at an unsually high emotional level for this early in the season, and the Lakers have the NBA’s best record — 20-6.

For all these reasons, Magic Johnson is our choice for Most Valuable Player after one-third of the season. Frankly, it’s about time he won the award. Despite leading the Lakers to three NBA titles in seven years, he has never been named MVP.

Michael Jordan has been phenomenal, but it would be a mistake to presume he is more valuable than Magic. Magic isn’t the sheer, unstoppable scorer that Jordan is, but if necessity compelled him to shoot 30 times a night, he’d put up some awesome numbers of his own.


During this three-game stretch, Magic averaged 39.3 points on 51.3 percent shooting from the floor, 90.9 percent shooting from the line and 61.9 percent true shooting, 8.3 rebounds and 13.3 assists.

Magic Johnson of the Los Angeles Lakers—averaging 28.5 points, 15.8 assists and 8.0 rebounds—was named player of the week in the National Basketball Association for the period ending Sunday.


He then followed it up by putting up 30 points on 11-for-20 shooting, 15 assists and three steals Dec. 26 in a 134-111 win over Houston when Kareem returned to the lineup, and 28 points on 12-for-17 shooting, eight rebounds and nine assists Dec. 28 in a 111-85 win over Philadelphia.

Magic was named NBA Player of the Month for December, averaging 27 points on 51.7 percent shooting and 59.2 percent true shooting, 7.4 rebounds, 11.5 assists and 1.86 steals as the Lakers went 10-4 for the month.

'INVISIBILITY' ACT OVER FOR MAGIC BIGGER ROLE MAY BRING DRAW HONORS

For the record, he insists that the slights and the also-ran finishes don't really bother him anymore. He flashes the familiar smile, talks about teamwork and championships, then lectures you, in a friendly sort of way, on how nothing else really matters in this game.

Certainly, it is an admirable way of looking at things, and you find yourself beginning to buy it. You find yourself wanting to believe that this is a man above the trappings of ego, a professional who has transcended the need for the ultimate spotlight.

Then Earvin Johnson hits a slightly sour note--nothing mean-spirited, certainly, but just enough to plant a seed of doubt. And suddenly, you realize there may be more to this picture than meets the eye, that perhaps, beneath the Magic, there is a little bit of hurt and disappointment, too.

"If I put individual goals first, I'd be a very angry person," he was saying in a less guarded moment at a recent practice of the Los Angeles Lakers. "But I don't do that."

He hasn't, and that is very much to Magic Johnson's credit. Still, part of him remains a bit confused about why unselfishness so often goes unrewarded, why the experts who supposedly understand this game never look beyond the numbers to see what he has done.

So behind the smiles and easy answers, there is another side to all this success. It is a side that privately wonders what it is he has to do to win them over, what it finally will take for the man who makes the Lakers go to be fully recognized for what he can do.

It is a remarkable record, on both sides of the coin. In seven NBA seasons, he has helped Los Angeles to three world championships and five Western Conference titles. He has led the league in assists in six of those years. In his rookie season (1979-80), he was named Most Valuable Player in the playoffs after his brilliant 42-point, 15-rebound performance in relief of the injured Kareem Abdul-Jabbar as the Lakers won Game 6 and the championship in Philadelphia, and he came back to win the award again in 1982.

There are those who consider him the best player in the game today, and the debate almost always comes down to Johnson or Larry Bird. Still, the individual honors have lagged behind the achievements. No Rookie of the Year award. (Bird beat him 63-3 in the voting, although Johnson's team won the title that year.) No regular-season MVP award. No All-Star game MVP award.

Johnson has a simple answer for that.


"Scoring becomes a big part of it," he says, "and I haven't ever scored a lot of points."

There also is a less pleasant explanation.

"Sometimes, you get overlooked," he admitted. "Sometimes, you get old to them."

Perhaps. This year, however, there are some new touches to the old Magic, and not because Johnson has decided to chase the MVP award that his rival, Bird, already has won three times. Instead, it is coach Pat Riley's choice that Johnson should be a bit more selfish with the ball this season, and Johnson has obliged in dramatic fashion.

Through 33 games, he is averaging 23.4 points on 16.9 shots per game, up from career averages of 18.3 points and 12.5 shots. His field-goal percentage is down (54.2 to 50.8) but still is very respectable for a guard. Most remarkable of all, however, is his play-making: His average of 11.7 assists per game leads the league and is a full assist above his career average.

In other words, Johnson hasn't radically altered his game so much as he simply has added to it. So now, people are talking MVP. And now, Magic Johnson finds himself amused by the attention.

"They're saying I've raised my game to another level, and that's not true," he said. "I'm playing the same game. I could have been doing this seven years ago.

"But now, he (Riley) asks me to do it, and people are saying, 'Oh, he can do that, too.' It's just that no one ever asked me to do it before."

That he has been asked to do it is the ultimate compliment from the coach, a public acknowledgement that Johnson is a talent who can do whatever is needed for his team to win. Still, Johnson admits, old habits are hard to break, and it has taken him a while to learn to shoot first and ask questions later.

"It has been an adjustment," he said. "I've had to develop more of a scorer's mentality. Now, at certain points of the game, I have to be a little selfish."

So he is doing more, and people are noticing. And while the standard line on the Lakers is that everyone is doing more to take the burden off the aging but still brilliant Abdul-Jabbar, it is Johnson who is doing the most.

The scepter is passing, and the straight man is starting to get more of the good lines.

"It's a different role," says Johnson. "But I'm enjoying the responsibility of the added pressure. I play better when I have more responsibility."


From Jan. 2 to Jan. 19, Magic averaged 29.6 points on 51.4 percent shooting and 60.0 percent true shooting, 5.1 rebounds, 10.1 assists and 1.89 steals over 9 games in which the Lakers went 7-2.

Lakers' Johnson is player of the week
NEW YORK — Guard Earvin “Magic” Johnson of the Los Angeles Lakers, who averaged 31.7 points, 10 assists and 6.3 rebounds in three Laker victories last week, was named NBA Player of the Week by the league Monday.

Johnson shot 56 percent from the field and 87 percent from the free throw line as the Lakers defeated Sacramento, Indiana and Boston.

He had 16 points and 13 assists against the Kings; 40 points, seven assists and six rebounds against the Pacers; and 39 points, 10 assists and six rebounds against the Celtics.


From Feb. 13 to Feb. 20, Magic averaged 32.8 points on 56.9 percent shooting from the floor, 88.7 percent shooting from the line and 65.4 percent true shooting, 7 rebounds and 11.8 assists as the Lakers went 4-1.

Los Angeles Lakers’ guard Magic Johnson, who averaged 26 points and 17.7 assists in three games last week, has been named NBA Player of the Week.


The Los Angeles Lakers’ Magic Johnson, who averaged 26.7 points, 16.3 assists and 9.7 rebounds and had two triple-doubles in three games last week, was named the NBA Player of the Week.

Johnson, who beat out Boston’s Larry Bird for the honor, shot .542 from the field and hit 27 of 32 free throw attempts as the Lakers extended their winning streak to 10 games, their longest of the season.


Magic was Player of the Month for March, averaging 21.7 points on 65.7 percent true shooting, 6.8 rebounds, 14.6 assists and 1.79 steals.

Lakers' Magic is player of the month
NEW YORK — Guard Earvin “Magic” Johnson of the Los Angeles Lakers, who averaged 21.7 points and 14.6 assists in March, has been named the NBA’s Player of the Month, the league announced Wednesday. Johnson shot .589 from the field and .819 from the foul line last month as the Lakers won 13 of 14 games and clinched their sixth straight Pacific Division title. He leads the league with 12.3 assists per game and is 10th in scoring with an average of 23.9 points per game. Both Johnson and Chicago’s Michael Jordan have won the award twice this season.


From Mar. 31 to Apr. 5, Magic posted four consecutive triple doubles, averaging 28.3 points on 53.5 percent shooting from the floor and 58.2 percent true shooting, 10.3 rebounds, 11.8 assists and 1.5 steals in four Laker victories.

NEW YORK (AP) — Magic Johnson of the Los Angeles Lakers, who hit double figures in points, rebounds and assists in all four of his games, was named Monday as the NBA’s Player of the Week.

For the week, Johnson averaged 28.2 points [28.25], 11.8 assists and 10.2 rebounds [10.25]. He leads the NBA in assists with 12.3 a game and is ninth in points at 24.1.

Other nominees were Larry Bird of Boston, Buck Williams of New Jersey, Karl Malone of Utah and Xavier McDaniel of Seattle.


This triple-double streak began three games into a season-high 11-game winning streak from Mar. 26 to Apr. 16, during which Magic averaged 25.1 points on 57.2 percent shooting and 63.7 percent true shooting, 8 rebounds, 12.9 assists and 2.55 steals.

The Lakers finished the season 65-17, the best record of the Showtime era and the second-best record in franchise history behind the 1971-72 Lakers, who went an NBA-record 69-13. The Lakers led the league with a 115.6 offensive rating, the highest in NBA history. Magic won the NBA Most Valuable Player award after averaging a career-high 23.9 points (10th in the league) on 52.2 percent shooting and 60.2 percent true shooting, 6.3 rebounds, 12.2 assists (1st) and 1.73 steals in 36.3 minutes per game. “He was selected as NBA Player of the Week an unprecedented five times this year and was Player of the Month in both December and March” (Daily News of Los Angeles, May 14, 1987).

Believe in Magic
Lakers have passed the torch to Earvin Johnson


LOS ANGELES — One second left. Score tied. Rodney McCray lofts the ball to Ralph Sampson, who turns and twists and tosses it at the basket from the foul line. The ball glances off the heel of the rim, bounces around and slices through the net like a dagger.

A magic shot, and — poof — the Lakers were dead.

The Houston Rockets moved on to play the Boston Celtics for the NBA title last season, while the Los Angeles Lakers, the defending champions, were swept into the dusty corner of oblivion.

The Rockets, with their Twin Towers of Sampson and Akeem Olajuwon, had launched their dynasty. The Lakers were history. Kareem was too old. Magic was not bold enough.

Now, a year later, where are those mighty Rockets? Where are the Dallas Mavericks and Portland Trail Blazers, the other “rising” powers in the West?

And where are the Lakers? The once and future kings of the NBA are in the finals for the sixth time in the last eight years. They open a seven-game series against the Boston Celtics tonight in Los Angeles.

The Lakers bounced back with the best record (65-17) in basketball this season. They believed in Magic.

Earvin (Magic) Johnson made use of his entire bag of tricks in his eighth professional season.

You’ve never seen the real Magic Johnson,” Johnson once said.

There’s a lot more to my game than I’ve shown, and one day I’m going to show it.”

This season was Magic’s Showtime. Magic passed as brilliantly as ever, but he shot, too, and rival defenses couldn’t figure out what to do.

The 6-foot-9 point guard produced his best season, an MVP season. Magic raised his scoring average to 23.9 points per game, six above his career norm, while he continued to lead the league in assists — the fourth straight year.

Magic is the most intuitive person I’ve ever known about reading the environment of the team,” said Lakers coach Pat Riley. “He knew what he had to do, and the team knew it.”

I realized that I had to change my game this season if we were to continue to be successful,” Magic said. “I knew I would have to start scoring more.

“It was a big adjustment. During my first seven years with the Lakers, my main duty was handling the ball. And scoring was an afterthought.”

Magic averaged 38 points a game at Everett High in Lansing, Mich. He knew he could score. He scored 42 against Philadelphia when the Lakers were without Kareem in the championship-clinching sixth game in 1980.

“The great scorers in this league, like Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Dominique Wilkins, have a scorer’s mentality,” Magic said. “They think they can score on anybody at any time. It took me some time to develop it again.”

The Magic touch returned in December. With Kareem Abdul-Jabbar sidelined with an eye injury, Magic scored 34 against Dallas, 38 against Houston and a career-high 46 against Sacramento in one torrid stretch.

I didn’t bend him, I didn’t push him, I didn’t over-coach him,” said Riley, who felt the Lakers needed to revise their fast-break offense to remain successful.

He just did it. Because it had to be done. The great ones know when they have to step forward.”

He always could have scored,” said Michael Cooper, the Lakers’ sixth man. “He could have been playing this way from the beginning, but he didn’t need to.”

Magic became more than a scorer. He became L.A.’s leader as well. These are his Lakers.

Kareem passed the torch, unselfishly, realizing that at 40, he could no longer dominate the offense.

“Everyone on the team accepted my new role, and that was the key,” said Magic, who has added an adaptation of Abdul-Jabbar’s sky hook to his showcase. “Kareem gave me the nod. He told me to take over, go for it.

I never had doubts that I could do it, but there were other people to consider. Kareem, James [Worthy]. I didn’t know how they would be affected. It would have been frustrating if they hadn’t accepted my new role.

I knew I would eventually shoot more, but I thought it would be after Jabbar was gone.”

Magic’s shot output increased 3.9 attempts a game to 16.4, while Abdul-Jabbar’s went down 4.2 attempts to 17.5 (with a scoring drop of 5.9 points to 17.5 a game).

“I had doubts, repeated doubts that this would work,” Riley confessed. “I was unfamiliar with the territory I was treading. The first week of training camp was as chaotic as anything I’d ever been through. I was comfortable with the old offense. I had the greatest post player of all time. But I knew we had to make a change.”

Magic reported to training camp in the best shape of his life, determined to inspire his teammates.

“I was worried about our future,” he said. “If I came in at the best shape of my career, it would set an example that we weren’t accepting anything, that we would come back.

Magic Johnson had to wait eight years to get his recognition.

“If Magic doesn’t get the MVP,” Riley said before the vote was announced. “It would be tantamount to Jim Bakker not being expelled from the PTL. There is no other choice.

“Magic has brought the game into a new realm of skill.”

The players agreed.

Magic was the best player in the league this season. There was nobody even close,” said three-time MVP Larry Bird, who gave his rival and good friend a ringing endorsement all season.

He makes everyone on the court with him better. He plays good defense, he posts up, he scores but still gets his assists. He adjusts to the game. If they’re struggling, he can take the shot. A lot of players can’t do that.

“The true barometer for the superstars is that they make everybody else around them better,” said Seattle coach Bernie Bickerstaff.

“The one thing that I’ve said over and over again is that there are a lot of great basketball players in this league, but there are very few who know how to win.”

“Winning the MVP means a great deal,” Magic said proudly at the presentation. “I wanted to win it the right way, with the team having a great season.”

“Every great player has a special year during his career,” said West, the Lakers’ general manager. “This has been Magic’s special year.”

Magic Johnson trails Larry Bird 3-1 in MVP awards, but in the big race — NBA championships — the superstars who define each other are tied 3-3.

And championships are what matter the most.

“Winning is the most important thing. The championship is more important than this award,” Magic said. “That’s what you remember and what the fans remember. If it comes down to me having to trade this trophy in for the championship ring. Hey, it will be traded tomorrow. Diamond rings. That’s what I live for. That’s why I play. I’m all about winning.

The Lakers are poised to win another championship, with Magic leading the way.


The Lakers defeated the Celtics in six games in the Finals, Magic unanimously winning Finals MVP honors, averaging a series-high 26.2 points on 54.1 percent shooting from the floor, 96.0 percent shooting from the line and 59.0 percent true shooting, a team-high 8.0 rebounds, and series highs of 13.0 assists and 2.33 steals with only 2.17 turnovers in 39.3 minutes per game. “ ‘This was the sweetest of them all,’ Johnson said. ‘This is the best team I ever played on. This championship means the most to me’ ” (Pittsburgh Post Gazette, Jun. 15, 1987).

Johnson hailed as best

INGLEWOOD, Calif. — If you don’t think that Magic Johnson is the best player in, on or around the game of basketball, you haven’t been watching the same player for eight years that Larry Bird has.

Magic,” said Bird, “is just a great basket ball player. He’s the best I’ve ever seen. Unbelievable. Other than that, I don’t know what to say.”

No problem, Larry. Johnson’s play during this, his season of seasons, said it all. Not only was he the National Basketball Association’s most valuable player, as voted by the media, and its Sporting News player of the year, as voted by the players, he was the only unanimous choice on the NBA’s all-league team. Bird wasn’t. Neither was Michael. Or Akeem Olajuwon.

Only Magic.


Much like it was the entire NBA season, regular and playoffs. Just Magic.

When it was all said and done Sunday afternoon, Johnson, as usual, had said the most and done the best. And when it came time to name an MVP for the series, won by the Los Angeles Lakers, four games to two, Johnson again was the unanimous choice.

Of course he was. He not only averaged 26.2 points, 13 assists and eight rebounds a game in the series, he made the biggest shot of the NBA season.

Officially, the Lakers beat the Boston Celtics Sunday afternoon. Unofficially, the Celtics were finished when Johnson’s sky hook with two seconds left dropped through the basket a week ago in Game 4, and Bird’s jumper from the corner at the buzzer didn’t.

That,” Celtics Coach K.C. Jones said Sunday, “is the shot that beat us.”

“I really thought we needed to win all three games of the series at home to have a chance, and we almost did,” said Bird. “That shot he made just took it out of us. We know coming back out here it would be awful tough.”

Just as it will be tough for the rest of the NBA to beat the Lakers next season. This season’s Lakers were different from any previous Laker teams. When it came time for “Showtime,” the spotlight was on, not Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, as it had been for the previous decade, but Johnson.

He shot more this season, and scored more. He was given a heavier burden, and carried it all the way through the finals.

And even though he will be trying to buck history — the NBA hasn’t had a repeat champion since the ’69 Celtics — there is no reason to think Johnson cannot do it again next season.

The Lakers of 1985-86 were 62-20 during the regular season before being beaten by Houston in the conference final. The change in their philosophy, the passing of the torch from Abdul-Jabbar to Johnson, made them a 65-17 NBA championship team.

It is hard to conceive, with Johnson in his prime, and with James Worthy, Cooper and Byron Scott close to theirs, and with Mychal Thompson around for an entire season, that the Lakers won’t be back in the championship series — and favored to win it — again next year.


Lakers’ win means Magic gets his due

INGLEWOOD, Calif. — They are speaking now about Magic Johnson, once basketball’s Cheshire-grinned kid, in terms of experience and legacies and dynastic greatness. They are speaking of him in the same breath as his legendary teammate, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. And they already are speaking in Los Angeles about the Lakers’ doing it all again next year — a reprise on this whole NBA championship season with the Lakers’ fast break wheeling along and Magic at the helm, scoring and dealing out one assist after another.

And who will say no?

Oh, there are Houston and Atlanta and Detroit and Dallas. Maybe Portland, if center Sam Bowie ever mends and gets back in the middle. But the Lakers’ most fabled foil, the Boston Celtics, disbanded Sunday after the Lakers’ title-clinching 106-93 victory, admitting that changes will be — and must be — in the offing. Don’t be surprised if shooting guard Danny Ainge is used as trade bait.

“We have to pick up a couple of guys,” said Celtics forward Larry Bird. “I don’t know where we stand with Kevin (McHale, who will undergo foot surgery in the next two weeks), Bill Walton (foot injury) and (injured backup forward) Scott Wedman next year.”

The Lakers, for a change, want to stick with more of the same. After they won their fourth title of the 1980s — and the fourth in Magic’s eight-year career — Abdul Jabbar, 40, immediately said he’s committed to playing one more season, maybe two. Backup center Mychal Thompson – “who did for the Lakers what Bill Walton did for us last season,” Bird said — could add a few years to Abdul-Jabbar’s career. Guard Michael Cooper talked of winning the sixth man award.

And Magic? He picked up his third championship series most valuable player award Sunday — an NBA record — to go along with his first regular-season MVP award. And afterward, principals from both teams were singing the praises of the 6-foot-9 point guard who was LA’s leading scorer (26.2 points per game), rebounder (8.0) and playmaker (9.8 assists) in the final.

“Magic is a great, great basketball player — the best I’ve ever seen,” Bird said.

We wouldn’t be anywhere without Magic,” LA coach Pat Riley said. “I was afraid that after he won the regular-season MVP award that he might have a tendency to relax. But his whole performance this year was something that spilled over into the playoffs. I happened to be blessed with him and Kareem, two of the greatest players in the league, and they’re working on ‘legend’ titles even as they’re playing.”

Lakers general manager Jerry West took the back-patting one step higher. “I think Magic can get even better,” West said. “Experience is a wonderful teacher.”

And experience, Johnson said, taught him that this Lakers title was better than the rest.

“Every day when I lace up my shoes, I only thought about playing hard and winning a championship,” said Johnson, the former Lansing, Everrett and Michigan State star. “Of the four championships, no question, this is the greatest one because of what we did in the regular season, our record (65-17), and what we did in the playoffs.”


For the entire postseason, Magic averaged 21.8 points on 53.9 percent shooting and 60.7 percent true shooting, 7.7 rebounds, 12.2 assists (1st in the playoffs), 1.72 steals (9th) and 2.83 turnovers in 37.0 minutes per game, and led the postseason in win shares (3.7), offensive win shares (2.6), defensive win shares (1.1) and win shares per 48 minutes (.265), while finishing second in PER (26.2). Magic showed he could have been doing this earlier had the situation required it, but the situation didn’t require it. “ ‘Give a lot of credit for our success to Magic,’ Lakers center Kareem Abdul-Jabbar said after Sunday’s 106-93 victory gave the Lakers their fourth title since Johnson’s arrival. ‘He accepted his role this year as team leader and played with enough intensity to inspire the other four guys on the floor’ ” (Kentucky New Era, Jun. 15, 1987).
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#44 » by PTB Fan » Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:13 pm

ThaRegul8r wrote:
PTB Fan wrote:I'm definitely voting Russell in my top 5. That '65 season was amazing. Remember, he played with an injury which he revealed after the Finals.


That was 1966, exactly. Red Auerbach's last season as coach.


Thanks for correcting me. BTW, that post on '87 Magic was brilliant.
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#45 » by An Unbiased Fan » Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:32 pm

C-izMe wrote:Talking about games 6 & 7 in Portland Shaq clearly helped his team just by being on the floor. I watched all of game 6 yesterday (going to get around to game 7) and Shaq was literately doubled on every play where he didn't make a move within a second of catching the ball. He was triple teamed (this is by my count) 12 times and quadruple teamed 6 times. His teammates benefitted a ton from that (like Kobe who had his best games of the series).

Hey look, no doubt Shaq got a lot of attention, I will never dispute that. But if LA doesn't rally in the 4th quarter of gm 7, his performances in the final 2 games of the WCF would have been a big issue. It's not like other great big men haven't garnered plenty of attention too. The main reason this tactic bothered Shaq was because of his need to be within 6 feet of the rim. This speaks to his lack of offensive versatility.

Every star helps their team by being on the floor. But let's be real for a moment. The WCF in 2000 were the defacto Finals. LA & Portland had the 2 best SRS in the RS, and either team would have beat the Pacers. For all the crap Wilt takes for his Finals performances, it a bit unfair to give Shaq a pass for putting up 18/10 in the final closeout games of his most important series in 2000. Especially when he had a 3-1 lead, and a teammate who put up 29 PPG in those same games.
And if you want to talk about relative to the league Shaq was the best offensive player and a serious candidate for the best defensive player in the game that year. Who else can say they've done that?

Wilt in 64' & 67' fits that bill. Clearly Russell was the DPOY, but then again, Zo was clearly the DPOY in 2000. I would say both Wilt/Shaq were Top 5 defenders in those years.

94' Hakeem put up 27.3 PPG(#3) on 57% TS and was All-D 1st team and clearly the best defender.

77' KAJ was 26.2 PPG on 61% TS, and was All-D 2nd team like 00' Shaq.

76' Dr. J was the best offensive player in the ABA, and one of their best defenders.

06' Kobe put up 35 PPG on 56% TS, and played All-D 1st team defense.

12' Lebron put up 27.1 PPG on 61% TS, and was All-D 1st team.

So Shaq is not the only player to do this.
And Shaq was a great help defender. For some odd reason you don't seem to count rim protection as help defense so I guess in your opinion all big centers aren't good help defenders.

Eaton was a big center, and great at help. I already pointed out DRob too. Shaq simply was not a good help defender, he did other things great, but not that. But I guess we'll just have to disagree.
Also 29.7ppg on 58TS is great when league average TS is 52. It's actually one of the best bigman scoring seasons ever and when you add his 3.8apg into that and his super low to% I think he had the best offensive season for any bigman ever.

I don't know about this, the crop of centers in the NBA during 2000, weren't exactly offensive nor defensive juggernauts.

Like I pointed out earlier, when Shaq faced the 2 best defenders in 2000(in my opinion), this is what he put up.

Shaq against Zo(2 games):
22.5 PPG on 48% TS

Shaq against Dikembe(2 games):
16 PPG on 37% TS

And against the one quality frontcourt he faced in the PS, he put up 25.9 ppg, and 17.5 PPG in the final 2 closeout games.

Wilt, and KAJ have both had offensive season on par with 00' Shaq.
So let's get this together:
Offensively he's greater than any bigman
Defensively he's greater than any guard
Offensively he's not as good as the best guard
Defensively he's not as good as the best bigman

Well no.
-Wilt & KAJ were on par with Shaq offensively
-Defensively, there have been quite a few guards better, and I'm not even sure how much better Shaq was than even his All-D 1st teammate in 2000.

This is my main problem. 2000 Shaq was great, but people are elevating his play to god-like levels.
But who else can you say fits that requirement. Wilt doesn't have a top 5 defensive peak ever. Russell doesn't have a top 50 offensive peak ever. Should I just choose players who were GOAT level on one side of the ball because they were GOAT level at offense/defense and completely disregard people who were right outside GOAT level on both ends?

1) Shaq doesn't have a Top 5 defensive peak either.
2) Russell's offense is certainly an issue with me, but his defensive peak is light years better than Shaq, relative to their eras.
3) Are you truly suggesting that Shaq was "right outside" GOAT level on both ends, because that's kind of my problem with your argument. He wasn't. Offensively he's there, but defensively he's not in the ball park.

Let's just look at the defensive peaks of the bigs during Shaq's era. Is his defensive peak...

better than Duncan's? Nope
better than KG's? Nope
better than Hakeem's? Nope
better than DRob's? Nope
better than Zo's? Nope
better than Deke's? Nope
better than Big Ben's? Nope
better than Dwight's? Nope
better than Camby's? Nope
better than Chandler's? Nope
better than Ewing's? Nope
better than Bogut's? eh, maybe
better than Sheed's?
^
Those are just the bigs in Shaq's era. And I haven't even included wings simply because I know you feel they don't have the same impact on defense, though I would argue differently in the post-3pt era.
Wilt's peak he led a worse defense with a better team. Kareem's peak he wasn't as good a defender as Shaq or as good of a offensive player. Russell's peak I keep hearing abou the team's -10 defense but not their -5 offense. None of these guys are perfect and Shaq clearly has the upper hand on a few of them.

I really hate the "he led" statements in reference to offense & defense, that have popped up on the PC board. Shaq had a great defensive roster around him. We have already seen with a guy like KG from 07' to 08', how the personnel of a roster effects team ORtg & DRtg. In 2001 Phoenix had the best DRtg...does that mean Kidd had an all-time defensive peak, or maybe that roster was playing great team defense.

But anyway, I don't see how Shaq was a superior defender to either Wilt nor KAJ. I also would say in terms of 2-way play, that 94' Hakeem in the golden age for centers, is superior to 00' Shaq's 2-way play in one of the weakest for centers.

That said, I think Shaq IS in the discussion and that #2 really comes down to the criteria used by the voter. But I hope that if Shaq gets it, that it's because of his actual play, and not the MDE media label he got back then. I think this will be my last post on Shaq for a while, because I there are plenty of other players who deserve some attention.
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#46 » by drza » Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:58 pm

C-izMe wrote:And if you want to talk about relative to the league Shaq was the best offensive player and a serious candidate for the best defensive player in the game that year. Who else can say they've done that?


I'd say that Hakeem, Robinson, KG, Wilt, Kareem, and perhaps LeBron are guys off the top of my head that might have had an argument for that in a given season.
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#47 » by ardee » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:37 pm

Josephpaul wrote:How is lebron peak better than KAJ ? SMH .

71 Kareem for me


You've voted '71 Kareem for back to back threads.... I'd be interested to hear why you're choosing him.
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#48 » by ronnymac2 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:42 pm

ardee wrote:
Josephpaul wrote:How is lebron peak better than KAJ ? SMH .

71 Kareem for me


You've voted '71 Kareem for back to back threads.... I'd be interested to hear why you're choosing him.


Seriously. Isn't there a rule that you need to explain why you're voting for somebody to have your vote count?
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#49 » by ronnymac2 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:47 pm

As somebody who isn't voting but hopes Shaq gets in at number 2 and thinks many of the criticisms of him in this thread are crap, I want to say that LeBron James, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar all have arguments for having the GOAT peak. They are above everybody else.

Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Bill Walton, and Julius Erving never were superior peak players then those nine GOAT players (the eight I mentioned above and Jordan).

Of the players coming up, the one I want to hear about most is Larry Bird. I'll wait until the conversation about him heats up though.
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#50 » by drza » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:01 pm

ThaRegul8r wrote:
drza wrote:I mentioned it in the last thread, but seriously...why isn't Russell even getting mentioned here?


I've already mentioned this, but Russell's dominance was on the defensive end of the court, which most people don't value as highly as dominance on the offensive end of the court. Secondly, most people aren't even sure when Russell's best season was. Doc MJ, who has Russell as his GOAT said:

Doctor MJ wrote:Russell's best years are so close, it's hard to tell them apart.


So how is Russell going to be mentioned if—in addition to his kind of dominance not being fitting within the currently accepted paradigm of greatness—people can't even agree when his best season was? In this very thread:

Lightning25 wrote:How is '65 Russell better than '62 Russell?


I looked in the preliminary thread for the Top 50 player seasons, and different people were naming different Russell seasons when talking about Russell. There is no clear consensus for his best season. Which is what prompted me to ask the question:

ThaRegul8r wrote:I'm wondering how just many people have the top seasons of GOAT players ranked in order for that player clearly in their minds, which is the starting point before one can than make cross-player comparisons.


People are more clear about other candidates, which is why they're the ones being named. Simple.


Point taken with the way I worded my response, but perhaps I should rephrase:

Russell SHOULD be getting mentioned a lot more here.

1) You're right that offense gets more attention than defense. On the other hand, as I pointed out before, Russell finished with the highest number of shares in the RPoY project and finished 2nd in the top-100 thread. So it's not like Russell doesn't get appreciation in these projects

2) As someone just pointed out last thread, Russell's 1964 and 1965 impacts on defense (team defenses of +10 or more, better than the sum of the team offense/defense on Wilt's 1967 squad) are quantifiably at least comparable, if not noticably larger than some getting a lot more mention

3) The question of "which year is best?" is essentially moot to me. SInce we're doing peaks, and we're only voting for one year per person, it really doesn't matter which year to me. I picked 1965 Russell because he ticked a lot of the accolade boxes, but if someone wants to say 1962 Russell is better, I could vote for that year as well. My point is that I think RUSSELL had a GOAT peak...I could care less about the year.
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#51 » by ardee » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:02 pm

ronnymac2 wrote:As somebody who isn't voting but hopes Shaq gets in at number 2 and thinks many of the criticisms of him in this thread are crap, I want to say that LeBron James, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar all have arguments for having the GOAT peak. They are above everybody else.

Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Bill Walton, and Julius Erving never were superior peak players then those nine GOAT players (the eight I mentioned above and Jordan).

Of the players coming up, the one I want to hear about most is Larry Bird. I'll wait until the conversation about him heats up though.


This. I think Walton and Garnett in particular have gotten massively overrated (I agree Garnett is a top 15 player of all time but the level people take it to is strange), mainly because a lot of people love Russell here and these two are in his mold.

Bird is not a massively polarizing player. Everyone knows that during his four year prime ('84-'87), he has a massive chance of going 4 for 4 on MVPs, and if you give him an interior scorer and a couple of shooters, your team will have a ridiculously efficient offense. A good supporting cast also guarantees you a Finals berth with Larry Legend in his prime.

I'm a Laker fan but it's very hard to hate the guy's skills. One of the most underrated players on this board, IMO. When people rank him 7-9 it just shocks me. He's one of the five or six players who practically guarantees you a title if he's healthy and has a decent cast (Jordan, Magic, Russell, and yeah, that's it).

1986 Bird ranks either 3rd or 4th on my peaks list (can't decide between him and 1987 Magic).
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#52 » by drza » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:05 pm

ronnymac2 wrote:As somebody who isn't voting but hopes Shaq gets in at number 2 and thinks many of the criticisms of him in this thread are crap, I want to say that LeBron James, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar all have arguments for having the GOAT peak. They are above everybody else.

Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Bill Walton, and Julius Erving never were superior peak players then those nine GOAT players (the eight I mentioned above and Jordan).

Of the players coming up, the one I want to hear about most is Larry Bird. I'll wait until the conversation about him heats up though.


Lol. I know you're not voting, but isn't this post exactly what you just criticized someone for doing in your previous post? This is a lot of opinion, with nothing to really say why. I certainly see folks in that second group with arguments above some in that first group.
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#53 » by colts18 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:12 pm

Why are we talking about Russell's +10 defensive impact and completely ignoring the fact that he is a negative on offense?
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#54 » by drza » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:13 pm

ardee wrote:I think Walton and Garnett in particular have gotten massively overrated (I agree Garnett is a top 15 player of all time but the level people take it to is strange), mainly because a lot of people love Russell here and these two are in his mold.


Of course, the logical counter is that in general Walton and Garnett tend to be massively underrated, because (like Russell) their strengths come in areas besides scoring and scoring is massively overrated. Shrugs. Seems like that's the purpose of a project like this, to put your arguments on the table in a medium where a lot of people will be reading for potentially years to come. Spending a lot of time on opinion statements like "overrated" or "don't have an argument" seems not to add much to it. Everyone here has opinions on who should be where...instead of making definitive statements based on your opinion, we'd all be better served if you put your reasoning behind your opinion on the board instead.
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#55 » by drza » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:19 pm

colts18 wrote:Why are we talking about Russell's +10 defensive impact and completely ignoring the fact that he is a negative on offense?


Because it hasn't been brought up or shown yet. If Russell's a negative on offense, put some logic/numbers to it. In my last post I argued that Russell's defensive impact may have been bigger than Wilt's combo of offense/defense by itself. Can you demonstrate that Russell's offense is a big enough negative to counter his super-sized defense?
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#56 » by ElGee » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:41 pm

vote: Shaquille O'Neal 2000

It's a pretty clear vote to me for reasons I've outlined. Since there's a deadline up on the thread, I'll try and discuss some of the other players later. First, let me address some misinformation by a poster who has a habit of this garbage in these projects.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1198314&start=105&p=32874661&view=show#p32874661

Unbiased Fan wrote:There's a huge problem with this train of thought.

1) In 2000, the Lakers had Glen Rice along with Kobe. So while Kobe was hurt, they still had a good scorer to fill some of that void.

And while the did start they year 11-4 without Kobe, you forgot to factor in SOS. Only 3 of those wins came against an opponent with a SRS above 0.


I will admit it bothers me to have to address someone who thinks he can easily beat Michael Jordan in a game of 1-on-1 when he was an NBA all-star. So if I come across as harsh, I assure you it's merely impatience.

When you say" I forgot to factor in SOS," you are simply 100% wrong. I have no idea what would cause someone to boldly claim YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG!!! without even checking what they are wrong about in the first place. SRS includes SOS. Do you not know this?
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#57 » by colts18 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:58 pm

drza wrote:
colts18 wrote:Why are we talking about Russell's +10 defensive impact and completely ignoring the fact that he is a negative on offense?


Because it hasn't been brought up or shown yet. If Russell's a negative on offense, put some logic/numbers to it. In my last post I argued that Russell's defensive impact may have been bigger than Wilt's combo of offense/defense by itself. Can you demonstrate that Russell's offense is a big enough negative to counter his super-sized defense?


In 1965, he scored 12.5% of his teams points and had a -0.7 TS%. That is the equivalent of 12.0 PPG and .525 TS% in today's game. So the comparables to today's game would be Conley, Bellinelli, Bass, Nelson, West. The Celtics offense was -3.4 (8th out of 9) in 1965.
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#58 » by MisterWestside » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:21 pm

Russell wasn't a "negative" on offense; he just wasn't a noteworthy player offensively. He simply did was he was asked to do in Boston as a passing hub and was utilized effectively in that manner. When you anchor your teams like that defensively, you can get away with a lack of offense.
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#59 » by An Unbiased Fan » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:23 pm

ElGee wrote:vote: Shaquille O'Neal 2000

It's a pretty clear vote to me for reasons I've outlined. Since there's a deadline up on the thread, I'll try and discuss some of the other players later. First, let me address some misinformation by a poster who has a habit of this garbage in these projects.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1198314&start=105&p=32874661&view=show#p32874661

Unbiased Fan wrote:There's a huge problem with this train of thought.

1) In 2000, the Lakers had Glen Rice along with Kobe. So while Kobe was hurt, they still had a good scorer to fill some of that void.

And while the did start they year 11-4 without Kobe, you forgot to factor in SOS. Only 3 of those wins came against an opponent with a SRS above 0.


I will admit it bothers me to have to address someone who thinks he can easily beat Michael Jordan in a game of 1-on-1 when he was an NBA all-star. So if I come across as harsh, I assure you it's merely impatience.

When you say" I forgot to factor in SOS," you are simply 100% wrong. I have no idea what would cause someone to boldly claim YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG!!! without even checking what they are wrong about in the first place. SRS includes SOS. Do you not know this?

A bit of an over-reaction, wouldn't you say. I missed the SRS reference in the original post, it's that simple. You could have just said, "Hey, I did include SRS, re-check my post", like most others would. No need to get bent out of shape.
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Re: #2 Highest Peak of All Time (ends Tue 11:59 PM Pacific) 

Post#60 » by MisterWestside » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:25 pm

No need to get bent out of shape.


Lighten up. You did provide some epic lulz with that thread, and you're not about to get a pass for that :lol:

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