Rockets Signs Lin

[aznkillabeezZz]

Knicks fans are in delusion. When was the last time Knicks fans had the whole garden cheer for them and made them relevant. It's gonna be a long time coming .. Jeremy Lin brought this excitement and feeling the Knicks never had since Allan Houston, Ewing , John Starks days. Someone to route for, and can make his whole team better. Felton doesn't have the same effect. Nor does selfish melo and a declining amare.

[Ginger Bean]

The Admiral David Robinson on Lin:

You know I'm on the outside looking in, but he was the most valuable guy there on the franchise! I don't even know why they'd ever want to let him go. I mean, he was the reason why I would even want to turn on the TV to even watch the Knicks, so now I wanna turn on to watch the Rockets cos you love guys who can win, who have just some kind of magic about them. There's so few guys that have that leadership characteristic... that something, that je ne sais quoi... it's just a special thing that makes it fun to watch, so hopefully he brings that to the Rockets and helps take them to another level.

[6_Rings]

The Admiral David Robinson on Lin:

You know I'm on the outside looking in, but he was the most valuable guy there on the franchise! I don't even know why they'd ever want to let him go. I mean, he was the reason why I would even want to turn on the TV to even watch the Knicks, so now I wanna turn on to watch the Rockets cos you love guys who can win, who have just some kind of magic about them. There's so few guys that have that leadership characteristic... that something, that je ne sais quoi... it's just a special thing that makes it fun to watch, so hopefully he brings that to the Rockets and helps take them to another level.

nice. exactly the sentiments of non Knicks fans last season. guess id be watching the rockets nxt season a little bit more.

u guys need a veteran mentor for lin.

[Leaguepass]

I'm personally really rooting for Lin to succeed. I rather have him succeed and our FO look bad than vice versa. I genuinely like the guy so I'm not trying to make excuses or something. Felton is quicker and has a better handle and IMO is the better defender (if motivated). Lin is pretty much the clearly better offensive player in terms of scoring,shooting,shooting FTs etc.---I think there is no question that at 4mill. Lin would have been the easy choice but when you have to decide between giving Felton 3.5mill. a year and Lin 8.5 mill. I think it is not too farfetched to argue in favor of going with Felton. Again, I would have liked the Knicks to match Lin instead of signing Felton but at the same time I can definitely understand the Knicks point of view here. There are remaining question marks surrounding Lin's ability to handle high pressure defense while with Felton you have the more experienced version there.
I don't know if I have made my point of view clear but I look at it like this.....If I had the choice between Irving and Nash I'd take Irving 10/10 times....but for ONE or two playoff runs?I'd go with Nash, especially if he'd cost less than half the money.

BTW I also think that Lin was wearing down to a certain extent but to argue that this was the main reason for his struggles is wrong IMO. If you look at his game log you can clearly see that after Linsanity there was no steady decline. It went like this ---bad game,good game, bad game , bad game, good game , good game....it just happened that his good games were against mediocre or bad teams while his bad game were mostly against strong defenders.

Under no circumstances is choosing Felton over Lin a good move, especially when you consider the fact that the Knicks are over the cap either way. Anyways, I think everyone is in agreement that this was not about money.

Felton is not quicker and is not a better defender, and anytime you have to include an "if motivated" after your statement, you know that you are on shaky ground.

Comparing Felton to Nash in any analogy is beyond absurd. Listen, nobody wanted Felton. Better PGs were signed for the minimum.

If you believe your own arguments, why would you want Lin to make management look bad? According to your logic, they made the right move. Sounds to me like you are trying to convince yourself that it was all for the best as a Knicks fan. It was not.

1.Wrong. Felton at 40% of the price is the better move IMO if you factor in finances.

2.You didn't get the Nash analogy and I'm not gonna explain as IMO it is too obvious to miss...figure it out yourself.

3.Nowhere did I say that I want Lin to make management look bad. I only said that I rather have Lin succeed and our management look bad than vice versa. Again , I don't think the difference is that hard to figure out.

[adrenaLINe]

come on... Felton is not as good as Lin...

trying to make fat Felton out to be as quick as Lin is absurd..

while I will agree that Knicks probably would do just fine with Felton maybe even better...

as there is no way you were going to cater to Lin centric offense...

its plain to see the last few years, thinking was...

all the Knicks need is a guy to bring down the ball and dump it down to Amare and Melo, and Tyson...

everything is the same before the big 3 started to go down with injuries... you had your big three and PG position was a after thought...

[spaceballer]

Sorry but I have a different view....especially the Philly games/Boston game and partly Chicago/Dallas games he was played one on one often and could barely initiate the offense.
Whenever you play the PG position and have mediocre quickness, mediocre athleticism and below average ball handling skills along with a mediocre shot ,you are gonna struggle.

Do you believe that Derrick Rose, John Wall, and Kyrie Irving have mediocre quickness and mediocre athleticism? Because Jeremy Lin's average speed is higher than all of them. And his top speed is second only to John wall. Jeremy Lin's first step (start speed) is not only quicker than all of them, but quicker even than Olympic Gold Medalist runner Ursain Bolt. Don't take my word for it, that's the official conclusion of the companies that get paid by the NBA to provide these measurements to drafting teams.

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/20 ... fast-lane/

So if you truly believe that Jeremy Lin has mediocre quickness and mediocre athleticism, then you must think that Derrick Rose, John Wall, and Kyrie Irving suck because they are slower and less athletic. Or, you know, you could just be speaking out of ignorance and under the same unconscious racial stereotype filters that lead scouts to dismiss his speed and athleticism because he just doesn't look the part. You don't hear any such complaints of "mediocre speed and athleticism" about Rose, Wall, Irving, even though they're slower and less athletic (slower first step) than Jeremy Lin.

I have no idea what Felton's BAM numbers are, but I doubt he's faster and more athletic than Derrick Rose, John Wall, or Kyrie Irving, who are all surpassed by Jeremy Lin on BAM scores.

[Leaguepass]

I knew about these measurements since late last season. Thing is, I don't go by that---may sound absurd but I call it like I see it. Lin had big time trouble slashing by good defenders,he had trouble bringing up the ball and trouble slashing by them---Rose/Westbrook/Wall just slash by opponents like they aren't even there--Lin could not do that. Now it may be the case that he REALLY IS as quick as these guys but couldn't bring them ball up effectively and slash by them because of his weak handle--maybe his handle is the reason he didn't look as quick as measured--that might be a possibility BUT like I said, I call it like I see it and Wall/Rose/Westbrook have a way easier time slashing by defenders that Lin had trouble against.

[Zubby]

Didn't Kyrie skip the combine?

[BaYBaller]

I knew about these measurements since late last season. Thing is, I don't go by that---may sound absurd but I call it like I see it. Lin had big time trouble slashing by good defenders,he had trouble bringing up the ball and trouble slashing by them---Rose/Westbrook/Wall just slash by opponents like they aren't even there--Lin could not do that. Now it may be the case that he REALLY IS as quick as these guys but couldn't bring them ball up effectively and slash by them because of his weak handle--maybe his handle is the reason he didn't look as quick as measured--that might be a possibility BUT like I said, I call it like I see it and Wall/Rose/Westbrook have a way easier time slashing by defenders that Lin had trouble against.

Have you ever played basketball at any sort of semi-competitive level? It should be quite obvious that the reason isn't speed in the strict point A to point B sense but moreso to do with Lin's strength (his subpar strength is even spelled out in that linked article!). It's he could struggle vs an aggressive, strong defender who can push him off his desired trajectory, and also why he had so much success off the PnR since obviously his defender is picked off. It's why a lot of people have commented on his first step, because if he gets past you he's pretty much gone.

Wall/Rose/Westbrook OTOH, especially at this point in their careers, have NBA bodies. Lin still seems below average in the strength department. And strength is like the one of the few things that you can almost guarantee (if the player has any semblance of work ethic) a player improving on their first few years in the NBA. So the difference has nothing to do with having "mediocre" quickness, no matter "how you see it."

You're completely off-base on him having mediocre athleticism and shot as well. How many PGs can dunk? And he literally has elite numbers in iso situations. He's not a pure shooter in the catch and shoot sense, but he has quite a variety of moves he can score with, which is actually far more rare, especially for a PG. The only thing you are on the mark on is his handles, which are actually not mediocre but below average for starting NBA PG. And if you wanted to knock on Lin I would say he has below average passing as well. Lin played SG in college I believe, and you can definitely tell in how he plays. He's really a scorer, and there's really no doubt in mind that he's going to become a better and better offensive player, especially learning in McHale's system. However it might not be in a starting role unless he really improves his passing game since not many NBA teams actually utilize score-first PGs as their starters. Houston is an exception of course because they are full of young players.

[texasholdem]

However it might not be in a starting role unless he really improves his passing game since not many NBA teams actually utilize score-first PGs as their starters.

Wall, Westbrook and Rose are all score-first PG's.

[BaYBaller]

However it might not be in a starting role unless he really improves his passing game since not many NBA teams actually utilize score-first PGs as their starters.

Wall, Westbrook and Rose are all score-first PG's.

Yes I said "not many teams," not none. They are also pretty much the elite of the elite in terms of scoring PGs as well (except Wall), a level that even the biggest Lin homer can admit Lin will probably never reach. Score-first PGs thrive, obviously, when the keys to the offense is turned to them, and that's only really going to happen if you are the best offensive player on the team (Westbrook is sort of an exception here obviously, but Westbrook IMO would be good enough to build around himself).

[Leaguepass]

I knew about these measurements since late last season. Thing is, I don't go by that---may sound absurd but I call it like I see it. Lin had big time trouble slashing by good defenders,he had trouble bringing up the ball and trouble slashing by them---Rose/Westbrook/Wall just slash by opponents like they aren't even there--Lin could not do that. Now it may be the case that he REALLY IS as quick as these guys but couldn't bring them ball up effectively and slash by them because of his weak handle--maybe his handle is the reason he didn't look as quick as measured--that might be a possibility BUT like I said, I call it like I see it and Wall/Rose/Westbrook have a way easier time slashing by defenders that Lin had trouble against.

Have you ever played basketball at any sort of semi-competitive level? It should be quite obvious that the reason isn't speed in the strict point A to point B sense but moreso to do with Lin's strength (his subpar strength is even spelled out in that linked article!). It's he could struggle vs an aggressive, strong defender who can push him off his desired trajectory, and also why he had so much success off the PnR since obviously his defender is picked off. It's why a lot of people have commented on his first step, because if he gets past you he's pretty much gone.

Wall/Rose/Westbrook OTOH, especially at this point in their careers, have NBA bodies. Lin still seems below average in the strength department. And strength is like the one of the few things that you can almost guarantee (if the player has any semblance of work ethic) a player improving on their first few years in the NBA. So the difference has nothing to do with having "mediocre" quickness, no matter "how you see it."

You're completely off-base on him having mediocre athleticism and shot as well. How many PGs can dunk? And he literally has elite numbers in iso situations. He's not a pure shooter in the catch and shoot sense, but he has quite a variety of moves he can score with, which is actually far more rare, especially for a PG. The only thing you are on the mark on is his handles, which are actually not mediocre but below average for starting NBA PG. And if you wanted to knock on Lin I would say he has below average passing as well. Lin played SG in college I believe, and you can definitely tell in how he plays. He's really a scorer, and there's really no doubt in mind that he's going to become a better and better offensive player, especially learning in McHale's system. However it might not be in a starting role unless he really improves his passing game since not many NBA teams actually utilize score-first PGs as their starters. Houston is an exception of course because they are full of young players.

Yes I have and I completely disagree with you. I've seen (I myself were a 3 so I didn't directly defend PGs) a bunch of PGs that didn't strike me as strong ,easily slash by opponents....In fact many announcers during Linsanity commented on Lin having very very good strength which was underlined in many and 1 opportunities and his ability to finish through contact which would be pretty difficult for someone with little strength. Actually I'd say his strength is above average and I'd say many guys would agree on that.
I also disagree on him being a below average passer---IMO he is absolutely at least average in that department , if not better. He has good court vision and passes precisely. It's only when he gets pressured he loses sight of open teammates etc. but usually you don't have to worry about him finding the open man and delivering a precise pass.
Iverson/Parker are examples of lighting quick players that weren't among the strongest at all---still they could slash by opponents at will.

[BaYBaller]

The only comment on Lin's strength I remember was that he was "legit" or stronger than he looks or something to that effect, not relative to other top NBA PGs who I don't think you are actually arguing he has comparable strength too....... or are you? He actually was VERY weak in the strength department when he was on the Warriors but he definitely bulked up during the lockout but still relatively weak.

Also I don't mean below average passer in locating the open man. He does fine with recognizing that, or in specific sets he runs where he just dribbles up top and waits for the play to develop and make the pass, but that is really nothing special for a NBA starting PG. I meant making sharp passes in general, such as out of PnRs, drive-and-kicks, etc. He has a lot of bad habits that score-first PGs tend to have, such as jumping too early and being forced to pass, picking up his dribble, etc.

Iverson/Parker were/are both probably faster than Lin (smaller too), but it's their craftiness (and handles, particularly for Iverson) that made them great penetrators, so I don't see the point of the comparison. My point is to judge speed, in a point A to point B sense, simply by a player's ability to get by his man in a iso situation is foolish, especially when you have standardized tests telling you otherwise. It's one of the reasons why I think Lin will have to improve his passing game to be a legit starting NBA PG down the line, because he's primarily a PnR player and unless he actually becomes an elite and not just good scorer there's not many teams that are going to build their offense around him.

[madmaxmedia]

I think I see the same thing as BaYBaller on the strength thing. I have no idea how strong he is on absolute terms, or compared to other PG's. But he did seem to have trouble getting outmuscled on the perimeter by defenders playing him aggressively. I think it was their strength and assertiveness that bothered him more than the defender's quickness (although both obviously come into play.)

I don't think Lin plays slow on the court in any case, he's at least fast enough to be effective with his game. In any case he finally got enough PT to get an idea of where he stands on an NBA court as a player. The league will adjust to him but he will be able to adjust to the league with a better idea of his strengths and weaknesses, and what he can work on in off seasons.

He's not a bad passer, but needs to improve court vision and awareness. I think the sharp passes come when you see the opportunities as they are still developing, so you can get the ball into teammates' hands right as they are open.

The game probably seemed really fast to him last year, and still he played very well. This year it may slow down for him, which will help with the passing too.

[spolgar]

Lin is suppose to be one of the best dribble drive guys Eric Musselman has ever coached. See here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/sport ... wanted=all

Some of you folks say he has more difficulty going past folks compared to Rose, Westbrook, Wall, etc...

1) Wall aside, Lin is not paid like they are. His contract runs about 2/5's the price of a max. This is an apples to oranges comparasion. To expect the same level of talent when the market does not judge them to be equal (as price is as solid a bit of information as you are going to get when it comes to worth), is silly. It would probably be a better argument to say that he is overpaid then argue that he's not a franchise all star point guard when he's not paid like one. If he was, I could understand the need for some 'injustice' to be undone, but 8 mil for a point in what amounts to be a point guard league in this day and age is not at all outrageous.

2) Wall, Rose and especially Westbrook, have carte blanche to shoot coming off a pick and roll. You can argue they have earned that right either by achievement or implicit roster dysfunction, but Lin was not at that spot in New York. If you come off a pick and roll and the defender reads your prerogative is to drive almost every time to create, they are gonna go under the pick rather than over and back off to give themselves space. Rose, Wall, Westbrook and co would have an easier time pulling the shot which also gives them more options on the drive when the opportunity avails itself.

[ibraheim718]

No I felt like making this post on the Houston board out of nowhere. Yes he has quick hands and will get steals but he can't guard a trash can. Makes Steve Nash look like Tony Allen

This is ridiculously stupid. The numbers say otherwise and I say otherwise. Anyone who also doesn't take into account the fact that D'antoni rode him way too hard last year under unusual circumstances (a condensed brutal schedule) partly because he had to and partly to prove a point when they're making determinations on his physical quickness and strength based on last year is just not worth listening to.

[horacexgrant]

Lin is better than all of you are giving him credit for. He did what he did last year for a reason. It's because he's capable of it

[b_mind]

OT question... has Lamb signed yet or is he still left hanging as trade bait for Orlando?

Related....Lin will do fine this coming season.

[j0r0d]

3:06 am. Jus got home, damn bars closin @ 2. Sup wit dat? Lucky I didn't wreck or get a DUI. Boys went home, cuz we already drank all the beer here. Gonna hit up realgm befo I pass da f out...........

awesome thread-title-to-op-elaboration you got there brah

didnt u make a thread guaranteeing we'd get melo or bosh? i think it was last offseason or some **** i cant remember

but no no its cool, i trust you. im gonna put all my trust, in you. why wouldnt i, after all, hayden is your love destiny, amirite or amirite? imrite i know i am im always rite. when you roll with me, the price is always right, regardless of how many times you hear someone say "the price is wrong bitch". that is a false statement, the price is never wrong. the price is always right, i dont care what ANYONE says. right is right and wrong is wrong, and im right, and thats that. the end.

there, i did my job. so no blame can be placed upon me. i am blame-free. oh what was that? did u just say all this was my fault? no no no, see that can't be true, cuz i did my job and i did it well. so you cant blame me this time. nope, not this time. maybe someone else sure you can blame whoever, but not me. i did my job correctly. i am blame-free. that means you cant blame me, at all.

Rocketsballin, was I close?

[adrenaLINe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Hc7Rdl0TeHo