80's AUCTION/KEEPER PLAYOFFS OVER

[TMACFORMVP]

---->

Kees v. Snakebites
TMAC v. SamBone

BlackIce v. RIotPunch
bryant08 v. RR9

It's actually the same exact thing as last time..lol.

WRITEUPS DUE TUES 3 PM EST
SAME WORD LIMIT APPLIES.

[BlackIce]

Team KAJ

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar/Bill Walton
Jack Sikma/Bob Mcadoo
Jamaal Wilkes/D.R Dunn
Reggie Miller/Otis Birdsong
Dennis Johnson/Norm Nixon

Kareem: 08-81: 26/10/3, 2.9 blks, 57% FG 77% FT, All Defense 1st team, All NBA 1st team
Sikma: 82-82: 20/13/3, 48% FG, 86% FT, All Defensive 2nd team
Wilkes: 80-81: 23/5/3, 53% FG, 76% FT, Allstar
Miller: 88-89: 16/4/3, 48% FG, 84% FT
Johnson: 84-85: 16/4/7, 46% FG, 85% FT, All Defensive 2nd team

Walton: 80-81
Mcadoo: 80-81
Dunn: 82-83
Birdsong: 80-81
NIxon: 83-84

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vs Riot

PG - Magic Johnson / Mo Cheeks
SG - Joe Dumars / will fill in
SF - George Gervin / will fill in
PF - James Worthy / Dan Roundfield
Cc - Ralph Sampson /Manute Bol


-efficient: we are one of the more efficent teams in the league, our average TS/FG/FT % is elite and considering we aren't even a team based on offense we think this is impressive

- defense:

DJ on Magic - Magic was Tragic after getting locked down by DJ in the finals between BOS and LAL. No one will completely stop peak Magic but I have the ideal defender to match his size, and intensity

Reggie on Dumars - Reggie will be on a good but not great offensive player in Dumars, who is an elite 3 and D guy.

Wilkes on Gervin: We finally have a peak Wilkes here at the height of his powers. After watching some tape on the defensive end Wilkes reminds me a bit of Dandridge. Lanky, long, good in the passing lanes. He will slow down Gervin.

Sikma on Worthy: Sikma is pretty mobile and will do a much, much better job on Worthy then Worthy will do on Sikma

KAJ on Sampson: KAJ will be the anchor down low, he he doesn't have quite the size Sampson does but I'm not too worried....

Offense: DJ will pound the ball down low to KAJ and let him his thing. Sikma/Reggie are long range spacers, Wilkes mid range and DJ midrange/penetration.

We will run the pick and pop with our bigs quite a bit, and take advantage of a relatively weak defensive team that can't handle us in the half court and wants to run. You need to rebound to run and our bigs will dominant the board, I honestly don't see how Riot gets this one.


GL Riot, you da best.

[RiotPunch]

Magic Johnson (38) / Maurice Cheeks (12)
Joe Dumars (35) / Mark Aguirre (13)
George Gervin (38) / Mark Aguirre (12)
Dan Roundfield (34) / James Worthy (14)
Ralph Sampson (36) / Manute Bol (12)

vs. BlackIce

Dennis Johnson/Norm Nixon
Reggie Miller/Otis Birdsong
Jamaal Wilkes/D.R Dunn
Jack Sikma/Bob Mcadoo
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar/Bill Walton

Magic Johnson ('86-'87) - 23.9 PPG / 12.2 RPG / 6.3 RPG / 60% TS / 15.9 WS / NBA MVP / NBA Finals MVP / All-NBA 1st Team

Joe Dumars ('88-'89) - 17.2 PPG / 5.7 APG / 57% TS / NBA Finals MVP / All-NBA Defensive 1st Team

George Gervin ('79-'80) - 33.1 PPG / 5.2 RPG / 58% TS / 10.6 WS / All-NBA 1st Team / NBA Scoring Champion

Dan Roundfield ('79-'80) - 16.5 PPG / 10.3 RPG / 2.0 BPG / 1.2 SPG / All-NBA 1st Team / All-NBA Defensive 1st Team

Ralph Sampson ('84-'85) - 22.1 PPG / 10.4 RPG / 2.0 BPG / All-NBA 2nd Team / NBA All-star Game MVP

Offense:
We are going to run them out of the gym, fastbreaking at every opportunity. All of our starting 5 thrive in transition so we will maximize that as best we can. We will get it don in the half-court as well with Magic and Iceman penetrating and Joey D knocking down treys. We should be able to get what we want.

-In Magic Johnson's peak year of 1986-87, in the playoffs, he averaged 26.2 PPG, 12 APG and 8 RPG against Dennis Johnson. Those are higher than his season averages for that very same year. In his career, Magic averaged 21.7/12.5/5.8 against DJ as well. Johnson may be a great defender, but there is no such thing as slowing down prime Magic Johnson-- possibly the greatest basketball player to ever play the game. He's gonna get it done in a big way, so don't be fooled by BI's rationale.

-Joe Dumars has had a history of scoring big on Reggie Miller and also holding him in check defensively. We expect Joe to outproduce Miller on offense in this game, and Reggie will struggle.

-George Gervin averaged 33.1 PPG on 59% true shooting percentage in 1980. That is INSANE. Wilkes is a solid player and was actually pretty formidable defensively in the mid to late 70's, but Gervin is a colossal mismatch for him here-- the Iceman was simply unguardable.

-We're going to start Danny Roundfield here, who was an All-NBA First Team and All-NBA Defensive First Team selection in 1980. He averaged 18.6 PPG and 11.6 RPG, making him very capable of putting up points and grabbing us rebounds. Sikma was very good, but Roundfield in this year was extremely good and won't be an easy battle for Jack.

-Sampson will use his length to score over Kareem and will feed off of open looks on the fast break and from mid range created by Magic/Iceman penetration. Sampson consistently averaged 22 PPG against Kareem in his peak year, so we will get production here which will limit Kareem's impact on the game.

Defense:
We will lineup man to man with BI, going Magic on DJ, Joe D on Miller, Gervin on Wilkes, Roundfield on Sikma and Sampson on Kareem. We expect Dumars to shut down Miller and Roundfield to shut down Sikma, leaving BI Kareem and Wilkes to beat us. We feel as though Gervin and a rotation of Sampson/Bol can do a good job to slow down those guys though. Sampson was known to rack up blocked shots and at this stage of their careers was more long and athletic than Kareem. It's a good "slow-down" match up for me.

The Final Word:
On offense we can expect great point production from Magic, Dumars, Gervin AND Sampson, along with good production from Roundfield, Aguirre and Worthy. We will overwhelm them on the fastbreak and still be able to wear them down in the HC. BlackIce emphasizes the rebound battle is in his favor, but Sampson averaged more rebounds per game than Kareem did when going head to head and Roundfield averaged double digit rebounds in his peak year, so I don't see the advantage. Defensively, we can really cause problems for Miller/Sikma and Sampson should do a good job limiting Kareem. Bottom line, my offense will easily outproduce theirs as my defensive match-ups favor me more than his do. BI put together a very fine team once again, but just as he said about me I honestly don't see how he gets this one. GL, my burlap.

[bryant08]

vs. RR9

Bill Laimbeer (30) - Brad Daugherty (18)
Karl Malone (36) - Terry Cummings (12)
Julius Erving (36) - Terry Cummings (12)
Sidney Moncrief (36) - Danny Ainge (12)
Terry Porter (32) - Danny Ainge (8) - Fat Lever (8)
Situational: Walter Davis

vs.

G: Jeff Hornacek
G: Michael Jordan
F: Scottie Pippen
F: Kevin McHale
C: Robert Parish

Bench:
G: Steve Kerr
G/F: Dominique Wilkens
F: Alex English
F: Detlef Schrempf
C: Mark Eaton

Interesting to go up against RR9 again and you've got to love what he's put together, but my assumption is he's much better suited to make a title run next era, rather than this one. With guys like Schrempf, Pippen and Hornacek being much bigger factors next era, I feel my team holds a few significant advantages that will be difficult for RR9 to counter.

Offense:

My offense relies mainly on my two star forwards in Julius Erving and Karl Malone, and I've tried to build a roster that compliments them on both ends of the floor. Terry Porter is a solid, steady guard that is capable of defending either 1s or 2s. Offensively he's a great fit since he's very comfortable working off or on the ball and is ideal in catch-and-shoot situations. This allows Moncrief and Erving to do a little more ballhandling and take advantage of their ability to draw their defense and create spacing or get to the free throw line. A prime Scottie Pippen would have his hands full with Erving, but a second year Scottie Pippen is absolutely no match. I really like Kevin McHale and he’s a solid defender, but Karl Malone’s size will be a pain to deal with (Malone has a conservative 45 pounds on McHale). And Sidney Moncrief is enough of a threat to get Michael Jordan working hard defensively.

I think it’s important not to underrate Moncrief’s offensive game here, in the selected season he scored 21 points and averaged 4.5 assists shooting the ball at a 50% clip. Many compare his offensively style to a Dwyane Wade with less range and that’s how I like to view him on this roster. With Erving I’ve got a little bit of a LeBron/Wade thing going, but add in Malone who’s a much more consistent post threat (one that averaged 29 points in the selected season). Bill Laimbeer offensively won’t be expected to do too much besides space the floor, and he easily had the range to be a factor in my offense and someone worthy of attention. I also want to attack Jeff Hornacek who had yet to really establish himself, with Terry Porter who was already being relied on for large production come playoff time in Portland.

Defensively:

MJ’s the best to ever play the game and he’ll get his no matter what. But it’s awesome to have the best possible defender on him in Moncrief. We all know the praise his peers have had for Moncrief, but here’s what Jordan had to say in case you forgot, "When you play against Moncrief, you're in for a night of all-around basketball. He'll hound you everywhere you go, both ends of the court. You just expect it." With Scottie Pippen being less of a factor this era, Erving has a little more space to roam which should allow him the freedom to alter RR9’s offense and create turnovers.

Another thing to note is my team being notorious for having dirty players. Laimbeer, Malone, and Ainge all carried reputations with them (segment on Laimbeer and Ainge: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfKftsW8DhE). I’ll embrace that and say we’re the hardest team to play against in this era because we allow no easy baskets, battle for every possession and get under the opponent’s skin. If Moncrief is taking a breather, Ainge will be out there trying to make Jordan’s life a living hell. McHale and Parish might be significant post threats, but how will they do trying to overpower the physical presences of Malone/Laimbeer?

Benches:

The last point I wanted to address was regarding our benches because I think they’ll both play a factor. I believe a fundamental flaw in RR9’s bench is having Alex English and Dominique Wilkins, two fantastic scorers but guys who require the ball and shots to be effective. Schrempf and Kerr aren’t really huge factors and while Eaton is a phenomenal defender he brings nothing to the table offensively. Brad Daugherty’s passing and mobility further opens the floor for me, with Cummings playing a key role on great defensive teams in the past (a solid post defender capable of playing both F spots). Finally Danny Ainge is out there for his grit and defense, but also to be a key shooter (1.8 makes at 42% 3PT) at the guard spots.

[Snakebites]

Vs Kees

Isiah Thomas (38)/Michael Ray Richardson (10)
Andrew Toney (32)/Michael Ray Richardson (16)
Larry Bird (22)/ Paul Pressey (26)
Buck Williams (32)/ Larry Bird (16)
Patrick Ewing (38)/Tree Rollins (10)

Offense:

When I look at this matchup the first thing that really jumps out at me is Larry Bird. He's a bear to deal with under the best of circumstances, but that's hardly what we see here. Nobody stops Larry Bird, but you have to look at Kees's defense and feel that he's particularly poorly suited to do so. He's got one of the poorer defensive small forwards in his starting lineup, and one who gives up a frightening 4 inches on Bird. There is nobody with both the size and the quickness to cover him on this team, and that's a glaring problem in this defense.

Isiah Thomas should also have a big series. Kevin Johnson was a great player and even a decent defender, but there's simply no evidence that he particularly had any strong impact on Isiah offensively. Isiah's numbers across the board do, for the most part, escalate in the playoffs as well. These two playmakers will dominate as our first two options and there isn't much on Kees's team to really contest them.

The last key ingredient in our offense is Patrick Ewing, the perfect fit in our offense. Though his playoff numbers are at times a subject of criticism among fans, it should be noted that in all cases where there were any problems he was the number one option in the offense with no clear second option. In this case, he is a predominantly jump-shooting third option on a team which boasts do-it-all scorer Larry Bird and the slashing Isiah Thomas, and he will fill this job perfectly. Most importantly, his range draws Olajuwon out of the paint, limiting his impact on our other two star players.

These 3 fit together like a glove, and our supporting cast includes a guard (Toney) who could dominate entire games by himself with his shooting and solid slasher/playmakers in Michael Ray Richardson and Paul Pressey off the bench. Even with Olajuwon, Kees's defense simply isn't potent enough to pull us back with our deadly perimeter and Ewing to draw Olajuwon out.

Defense: We're confident our defense will speak for itself. We have among the best defensive front courts in the entire game with Buck Williams and Patrick Ewing down low to help contain Olajuwon, who, while still impressive in the 80s, had not yet achieved his "peak" dominant seasons in 1990s.

We also have the perfect defender for Kevin Johnson. Isiah was a very quick and capable defender who was great at stealing the ball, and his only weakness as a defender, his size, is a non-issue here. As impressive as their wings are as a scoring combo, they won't be able to match the impact that our two wings (Toney and Bird) will have on this series. We will also be playing two elite defenders, Michael Ray Richardson and Paul Pressey, over 25 minutes per piece, and these two players will be used to limit the perimeter scoring of Kees's team.

Overall: Our 3 stars fit together perfectly defensively, and we find that this trio coupled with the fundamentally sound group of players we've placed around them will be too difficult for Kees's team to handle. Kees has built a strong team but he's run into a matchup here were we are well positioned to exploit his limitations.

[SamBone]

BONED SAMUELS
PG: Stockton ‘89 (35) / Harper ‘87 (13)
SG: M.Cooper ’87 (20) / Richmond ’89 (28)
SF: King ‘84 (36) / M.Cooper ’87 (12) / Majerle ‘89
PF: Nance ’89 (33) / Chambers ’89 (15)
C : Moses ’83 (38) / Chambers ‘89 (10) / Smits ‘89

Vs. The great TMAC
PG - Mark Price (36) - Clyde Drexler (12)
SG - Clyde Drexler (26) - Chris Mullin (22)
SF - Marques Johnson (34) - Bobby Jones (14)
PF - Charles Barkley (38) - Bobby Jones (10)
Cc - Artis Gilmore (36) - Caldwell Jones (12)

It’s always hard when you get paired up against maybe the best poster to ever play these games in round 1, but at least this time, I believe I have the much better team. Good luck my man!

Offense
I gotta say I love the way my team rounded into shape. Moses was simply the most dominate BIG in this era. He was simply unstoppable in ’83. He will have the great John Stockton running the show and feeding him in the post. I also was able to but the player I think is the “perfect” fit next to him in Larry Nance who’s shooting with not only allow Moses to have some space down low, it will provide a great pick and pop option with Stockton. And you can not forget the huge scoring totals the great Bernard King brings to this lineup. Cooper, Richmond and Harper all provide even more spacing for Moses and King, and no matter who is on the court, none of them can be left to double team my dominating guys. I almost forgot to also point out the scoring and solid shooting that Tom Chambers brings when he is in the game as my 3rd BIG.

Looking at TMAC’s team, I believe I will be a matchup nightmare for his team. Chris Mullin at the SG position will simply get eaten up by his team mate Mitch Richmond. And while both Johnson and Gilmore were very good defenders, neither will be able to slow down my 2 main scoring threats.

Defense
As much as I like my Offensive fit, my defensive fit is equally as perfect, imo. I really don’t see a matchup that TMAC can exploit. Both Clyde and Chuck are great players but will be guarded by great defenders. Clyde will have to fight for everything against the DPOY Cooper and Chuck will have the much longer Larry Nance (1st team All Defensive) hounding him down. Artis will struggle with Moses (All Defensive 1st team)

Overall
In this era, I simply don’t think this team can be beat. My team works together on both ends of the court, I have tons of firepower that should not have issues working together in Moses, King and Stockton. My supporting starters in Cooper and Nance “fit” perfectly in my system. I have 2 great scorers coming off the bench in Richmond and Chambers who will carry the load when King or Moses take a break. My team can score, defend, spread the floor and rebound the basketball. I really can not ask for anything.

[-Kees-]

PG: Kevin Johnson (38) / Byron Scott (10)
SG: Dale Ellis (26) / Alvin Robertson (22)
SF: Adrian Dantley (34) / Jerome Kersey (8) / Alvin Robertson (6)
PF: Charles Oakley (30) / Horace Grant (10) / Jerome Kersey (8)
Cc: Hakeem Olajuwon (38) / Swen Nater (10)

viewtopic.php?f=340&t=1193811

Vs Snake

Isiah Thomas (38)/Michael Ray Richardson (10)
Andrew Toney (32)/Michael Ray Richardson (16)
Larry Bird (22)/ Paul Pressey (26)
Buck Williams (32)/ Larry Bird (16)
Patrick Ewing (38)/Tree Rollins (10)


The Bird problem: Well there was a reason I got Robertson and Kersey: to guard someone like Bird. Kersey always covered the opponents best forward, and was a scrappy defender and rebounder, and did all of the little things that help win games. He will see some time on Bird. Alvin Robertson will also see a bit of time on him. Although shorter, the DPOY should have decent success with steals and quickness and pressuring Bird. Read about it here: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/5945/your-nightmare-defender-alvin-robertson-edition. And only playing 28 minutes compared to his usual 35 will allow him to use even more energy to make sure Bird has to take long, contested shots each time. Bird may also see some of Grant and Oakley, if he goes to the post more. He will also see double teams from others, particularly Toney, who wasn't much of a 3PT shooter (0.9 3PTA per game career) and since we have maybe the best help D in the league, his slashing shouldn't be a huge issue. Overall, Bird will see many defenders from many positions and many different team defense schemes to make sure he doesn't go off on our team.

One thing Snake's team doesn't have is elite defense. Outside of Pressey, not one of his perimeter players is a good defender. Isiah was not a great defender, he was part of a good defense, anchored by Rodman, Dumars and Laimbeer, but his role was only to get steals, and I'll give him that on defense. But there is no way he can come close to stopping my offense. Take a look at my options on offense:

KJ - 20/12, 60 TS%
Dantley - 31/6/4, 65 TS%
Ellis - 28/4/2, 48 3PT%
Hakeem - 23/12, 56 TS% (38/17, 64 TS% in playoffs)

With KJ distributing (who led the 2nd ranked offense) and scoring, and having Dantley (only player to EVER put up 30+ PPG on 65+ TS%) scoring, as well as Ellis coming off screens and Hakeem being a huge post threat, there is no way that a below average team on D (in terms of this league) could come close to stopping that. Even off the bench, we have Kersey (19/8/3, great mid-range shot), Nater (16/12, 60 TS%), Byron Scott (22/4/4, 59 TS%) and Alvin Robertson (17/6/6, 56 TS%).

Ewing's Defense: He anchored average defense's in the 80s. 89 was 10th in the leauge, 88 was 7th. But he played a larger role in 89, even though the defense got worse. I'm not saying he was a bad defensive player or anything, but I don't think he had near the defensive impact that he will have in the 90s. With below average perimeter defenders (again, relative to this league) having an anchor that isn't a top one in this league leads to below average defense. Especially against my team, which may be one of the best on offense.

Isiah Thomas: During his two best years (84 and 85) he has TS% of 52 and 53, below league average. During peak years, Isiah averaged 21/12, 52 TS%, whereas KJ put up 20/12, 60 TS%, and they had similar AST/TUV ratios. Isiah may out-produce KJ, but that's because KJ is a 3rd option, Isiah is a 2nd, but in terms of impact, I expect them to be similar. Not to mention that the peak year for Isiah, he ran a 9th ranked offense, whereas KJ ran a 2nd ranked offense in his peak year.

Big men: For part of the game, I may put Oakley on Ewing, and Hakeem on Buck, if Ewing draws Hakeem from the basket too much. Oakley does have the size to cover him, so I may do that, to give Hakeem a great opportunity to be the great anchor he is. Either way, I have a top anchor and top co-anchor, so I shouldn't have any problems in terms of help D.

Overall I feel like I have the better team. I have multiple options to throw at Bird, from Kersey to Robertson to Grant, as well as getting help through double teams. I also expect the PG matchup to be very close, maybe with an advantage to KJ, because he was the most efficient scorer while putting up similar volume stats. I also have the post advantage with Hakeem over Ewing. And that's not even mentioning that Dantley is the only player to ever get 30+ PPG on 65+ TS%, which is amazing.

[RR9]

vs bryant08

I have MJ just starting out and his best season of 35pts/5.5reb/5.9asts/3.2 stls/1.5 blks on 53.5FG%. He also has Scottie as his wingman and jeff hornacek to nail shots from 3 (shooting 33% from 3).

Downlow, Parrish/Mchale are one of the most dominant front courts to play the game and played very efficiently too. Parish in 88-89 had 18.6pts/12.5reb (4.3Oreb!)/2.2asts/1.5blks and shooting at 57%FG. That's a dominant bigman performance. Mchale had a line of 26.0pts/9.9reb/3.2OReb/2.6asts/2.2blks on 60.4FG%!! Note my bigs avging more than 2 asts per game....bigs that can defend, score, AND pass what more can you ask for! Their FT% are also great (Parish @72%) while Mchale @84% Incredibly efficient.

4 of my starting 5 is incredibly efficient all with TS%>= 60%. Our offense will be unstoppable with MJ and my front court...but also with Domnique coming OFF THE BENCH! Alex English there as well. Mark Eaton also averaged >6.0blks per game playing an average of only about 20 minutes (perfect from a bench situation backing up Parish!).

Steve Kerr will also be coming off the bench and draining 3s, Schrempf will play a reduced role as a backup big to Mchale.

Pippen will slow down Erving on defense; Ainge/Moncrief is no match for MJ. Mchale and Malone will be close but Mchale has the edge in terms of efficiency and chemistry with Parish on defense. Overall I just think MJ/Pip/Mchale/Parish/Nique will just be simply to strong an offensive force to stop.

[TMACFORMVP]

vs. SamBone

Always cool playing Sam, a true competitor, and obviously has a very good approach in building his teams. Best of luck, and may the best team win; which of course, my team intends to do so.



*Rodman will be playing the backup C minutes, not Caldwell.
*Was just typing some stuff out, and went over the limit -- count this as a rebuttal too.

I sincerely feel our team matches up superbly well with SamBone's and we have just enough firepower to come out on top in this series.

1. REBOUNDING

* This is a HUGE advantage for us. I think it's unquestionable TRB% gives us a better picture than total rebounds, and adjusting that for the minutes played is the easiest way to get a "rebound score" which is below. I mean, even on raw/eye test value alone, outside of Moses, players like Nance and Chambers were poor rebounding front court players, while the rest of the team isn't all that impressive in itself. On the flip side, GIlmore, Barkley, and Rodman are phenomenal rebounders, as is Marques for a SF, and Drexler is arguably the best that's ever played (in terms of rebounding for a 2).

Stockton - 4.3 TRB% X 35 = 150.5 / 100 = 1.505
Cooper - 6.3 TRB% X 32 = 201.6 / 100 = 2.016
Harper - 4.2 TRB% X 13 = 54.6 / 100 = 0.546
Nance - 13.0 TRB% X 33 = 429 / 100 = 4.29
Richmond - 8.6 TRB% X 28 = 240.8 / 100 = 2.408
KIng - 9 TRB% x 36 = 324 /100 = 3.24
Chambers - 12.1 TRB% X 25 = 302.5 / 100 = 3.025
Moses - 21.6 TRB% X 38 = 820.8 / 100 = 8.208

Total: 25.238
EDIT FORGOT KING..NOW INCLUDES HIM. POINT STILL STANDS.

Price - 4.7 TRB% X 36 = 169.2 / 100 = 1.692
Drexler - 10.9 TRB% X 38 = 414.2 / 100 = 4.142
Mullin - 7.8 TRB% X 22 = 171.6 / 100 = 1.716
Johnson - 11.3 TRB% X 34 = 384.2 / 100 = 3.842
Jones - 11.6 TRB% x 24 = 278/4 / 100 = 2.784
Barkley - 17.9 TRB% X 680.2 / 100 = 6.802
Gilmore - 19.2 TRB% X 36 = 691.2 / 100 = 6.912
Rodman - 19.8 TRB% X 12 = 237.6 / 100 = 2.37

Total: 30.26

I mean, that's not just a small edge, but a HUGE EDGE. We WILL dominate on the boards, no matter which way anyone looks at it.

2. CHARLES BARKLEY V. MOSES MALONE

I'd like to ask a question before starting the 2nd point. What makes Moses Malone a better player than Charles Barkley? Moses was NOT a defensive anchor -- his Houston teams were always among the worst in the NBA defensively, and while the Sixers were good -- they were also a similarly good defensive team BEFORE he got there. So, the main thing going for Moses was his terrific rebounding, and scoring. But when you look at Barkley, who scores at a similar rate, and on MUCH greater efficiency, while being on another class as a passer (Moses was the definition of a blackhole -- an absolutely terrible passer), how can anyone say Moses was a better offensive player? This is also added to the fact that Barkley was a terrific rebounder, himself.

I don't see the argument for Moses offensively, and defensively, neither were anything to write home about. Neither were "negatives" for their teams, but neither really enhanced their team defenses as well. I honestly think Barkley will be a bigger defensive matchup for Bone's team than Moses will be for ours.

3. SUPERIOR OFFENSE

With our team controlling the glass, we can excel in the fastbreak. Barkley, Drexler, and Marques were all terrific athletes that excelled in transition. And with Price running the show, our fast break is nearly unstoppable. Our efficiency is also off the charts...

Gilmore (.668 TS%)
Barkley (.653 TS%)
Jones (.604 TS%)
Johnson (.583 TS%)
Drexler (.555 TS%)
Price (.623 TS%)
Rodman (.613 TS%)
Mullin (.581 TS%)

Also note our terrific passing; Drexler was one of the best assist men at the 2, ever. He did majority of that damage with his terrific decision making in the fast-break, and with simple quick hitting passes to cutters in that Portland offense. Marques was also a very good passer, that even took the role as a "point forward" at times for those Bucks team. Barkley was also a terrific passer out of the double team...and all these guys could play without the ball either as they were very well rounded scorers. Even Mullin has been noted for his great passing, as well. Rodman, and Jones know their roles, and do it more efficiently than anyone in NBA history.

So, in terms of play-making, I think we're the superior team, we're the more efficient offensive team, have overall more firepower (can't really double off anyone, perhaps Rodman a bit when he comes in), with good spacing. Then add to the fact that we will control the glass, and thus have more possessions...I think it's undeniable how dominant our offense will be.

4. DEFENSIVE MATCHUPS

Cooper only once has played 30+ MPG once in his career, and not in the chosen season. He simply wasn't a great offensive player - this allows Drexler to roam (as he had the speed to recover), and that's where he was at his best. With Drexler forcing turnovers, our tremendous rebounding edge, it will only fuel our fast-break.

Then we have lotta bodies to throw at King, starting with Marques who was an above average defender with terrific versatility, and then -- arguably the best perimeter defender in NBA history in Bobby Jones. I think Artis does more damage on Moses, than Nance does on Barkley, while Price and Stockton beat each other up (I've said for a long time, Stockton is a decently disruptive defender that can limit assists, but in terms of shutting down his man - he's done exactly the opposite; giving up for example, 30 PPG series to a guy like Terry Porter. It's worth noting that Mullin was just an overall better player than Richmond as a rookie as well.

And, how much pick and roll did King or Moses play? Maybe not the most ideal fit with Stockton, though, it would work itself out.

5. MISCALLENOUS

GIlmore v. Moses (83 - 2 MATCHUPS)
Moses - 27/17/1 on 11-24 (5-6)
Moses - 23/16/3 on 10-20 (3-7)

Total: 25 PPG, 16.5 RPG, 2.0 APG on 21-44 (.477)

Gilmore - 27/19/5 on 10-14 (7-7)
Gilmore - 18/10/2 on 7-14 (4-6)

TOTAL: 22.5 PPG, 14.5 RPG, 3.5 APG on 17-28 (.607)

Only 2 games from both chosen seasons (both had 30 point games in the previous season), but shows Gilmore won't get "dominated" in this matchup.

- We also like our bench more. Mullin is a superior player to a rookie Richmond, Drexler playing backup PG with our other playmakers creates huge matchup problems, BJones is one of the better 6th men in NBA history, and Rodman was a huge per minute performer as well. Chambers, and Richmond were more one dimensional.

SEE ROSTER PAGE FOR DETAILS ON PRICE/DREXLER/MARQUES --> These three should not get underrated, IMO. We have the edge in the backcourt (I'd take Price/Drexler/Mullin over their backcourt, and think Barkley/Gilmore/Rodman/Jones is superior to Chambers/Nance/Moses), while Marques fits in very nicely, and should hold his own against King). viewtopic.php?f=340&t=1193811#p32672056

I think overall, we have more offensive firepower, with favorable defensive matchups, the biggest mismatch in the series, with RIDICULOUS efficiency all round, a better bench and a SERIES CHANGING edge on the boards.

[SamBone]

REBOUNDING

So TMAC has proved that Moses, is the best rebounder in the series (and will own the glass) and that his PGs will out rebound my PGs, then again when my beast in the poaint is cleaning the glass, I am not sure how many rebounds will be there for the guards to grab. Plus add to that that on defense Barkley will be out on the perimeter guarding Nance or Chambers so his numbers will decrease, which leaves Gilmore alone with Big Bad Moses (yes TMAC’s wings will help, if Moses doesn’t pull them all in)

And just to show how dominant Moses was in 83, which is the same selected season for Gilmore. Gilmore played 3 more games and was out rebounded by 210 rebounds

CHARLES BARKLEY V. MOSES MALONE

Not sure how you can say the Moses was not an anchor. He was 1st team All Defensive, with a 96.6 Defensive Rating, with a 15.1 Defensive Win Share which was #1 in the league.

I don't see the argument for Moses offensively, and defensively, neither were anything to write home about. Neither were "negatives" for their teams, but neither really enhanced their team defenses as well. I honestly think Barkley will be a bigger defensive matchup for Bone's team than Moses will be for ours.

my guess its his 3 MVP awards and his Finals MVP, and that Moses was considered a WINNER

Cooper only once has played 30+ MPG once in his career, and not in the chosen season. He simply wasn't a great offensive player - this allows Drexler to roam (as he had the speed to recover), and that's where he was at his best. With Drexler forcing turnovers, our tremendous rebounding edge, it will only fuel our fast-break.

Yes, I guess I messed up Cooper’s playoff per game was only 29 min, not the 32 minutes I listed him as. I am sorry for asking him to play 3 more minutes. It will not happen again

Drexler roaming is not an issue for me Cooper was 2nd in the NBA in 3 point shooting which will be his role in our offense, leaving him open will only raise the 39% he shot in his selected season from 3

Sorry ran out of time!

[TMACFORMVP]

Judging can begin.

I FORGOT TO CLARIFY. PLEASE POST VOTES HERE. THANKS

[Snakebites]

[One thing Snake's team doesn't have is elite defense. Outside of Pressey, not one of his perimeter players is a good defender. Isiah was not a great defender, he was part of a good defense, anchored by Rodman, Dumars and Laimbeer, but his role was only to get steals, and I'll give him that on defense.

This simply isn't true. Our third guard Michael Ray Richardson was an elite defender, and you're compeltely underrating Isiah. He was noted as being distinctively better defensively than KJ, and his only genuine weakness as a defender was size, which against the 6 foot nothing KJ will not be a problem. My perimeter is better defensively than yours (with the decent KJ, poor Ellis, and legendarily bad Dantley) starting. You may have people with the speed to guard Bird, or even the size and toughness to guard Bird, but unfortuantely Bird was so versatile you need both. He'll either post up Robertson all day or blow right by Grant. Even Michael Cooper couldn't manage to put much of a dent in him.

Don't see how you help yourself out all that much putting Oak on Ewing, either. He'll just shoot right over him.

If you want to talk defense, the advantage is in my court, not yours.

And you're talking up Dantley, so I guess I better address that bit too. The guy was NOT as good as his stats. He was not only one of the worst defensive starters in this era, but he was also a bit of a ball stopper and a proven loser. He was great near the basket and an efficient scorer, but the Pistons actually got BETTER when they traded him for someone who went on to have a smaller role in the offense than he did.

I'll trust the voters with respect to the Isiah/Kevin Johnson matchup, too.

[TMACFORMVP]

NEW METHOD. INSTEAD OF POSTING OR SENDING IT TO ME...WE WILL NOW SEND IT TO moss_is_1.

HIS EMAIL ADDRESS:

oquist@live.com

He will post the results. So send em in!

[TMACFORMVP]

Results should hopefully be posted early tomorrow morning.

[dockingsched]

vote sent to moss via pm

[moss_is_1]

Tallying up votes and here is what I've gotten:

Tmac over SamBone: 4-2

Code: Select all

Tmac

SamBone

Tmac - i think i was overlooking barkley/drex and how good they'd be, not to mention tmac is pretty competitive at the other positions..the difference between price and stockton isn't great enough and while i have a lot of faith in moses malone, i think artis gilmore will be able to hold his own while barkley/drex can do their thing

Tmac

TMAC over SamBone
I literally switched my pick like 5 times with this match-up. Basically, TMAC just has too much across the board for SamBone to match-up with.  Moses' advantage over Gilmore cancels out Barkley's advantage over Nance. King has the slight advantage over Johnson, Clyde has a BIG advantage over Coop and Mark price should put up big points on Stockton. Add to this the fact that TMAC has a stronger bench and I need to give him the nod. Moses was a chemistry killer and TMAC's team just works a bit better. This was the toughest one to judge for me.

tmac vs. sambone:
ok, i read every single word typed by the two competitors. the confidence displayed by both sides made it tough, didn't know who to believe! anyway. both rosters are impressive, and both argued for their sides quite well. ultimately, had to pick one side, and man was it tough. my vote, which was influenced by the defensive strategy that this person presented, goes to sambone. sorry tmac!

Snakebites over Kees: 5-1

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Snakebites over Kees
I actually like Kees' team, Hakeem with Ellis, KJ, and Oakley is deadly. Not a big Dantley fan, despite his statistics, his impact was poor, and his overall play was replaceable. I might have actually considered Ellis at the 3, and Robertson at the 2, with Dantley as a scorer off the bench w/ the defenders on the team. Saying that, I think Isiah, Buck, and Ewing is comparable with Hakeem, KJ, and Oak (though I'd take Kees' trio by a solid margin) - but Bird makes up too much of the gap between those trios. He'll dominate this series, especially with the perimeter defense on him, and there is overall  too much firepower.

snakebite

Snake over Kees

Snake over Kees
Using Dantley in such a huge role was a strategic mistake and I don't see anyone capable of stopping Larry Bird on Kees's squad. Ewing/Bird/Isiah is just too good here.

Kees v. Snakebites --- Snake

Kees over Snake
I was originally going to go Snake here, but after some further thinking I changed my mind. The way I see it, KJ and Isiah is close to being a wash (slight edge to Zeke); Olajuwon and Ewing are close to a wash (edge to Hakeem)... and I look at Bird/Dantley and see that it's not as huge of an issue as Snake makes it out to be; over their careers they averaged 24.6 PPG and 24.1 PPG against each other respectively, so that is damn near a wash as well, with a slight edge to Larry Legend. The REAL difference here is Dale Ellis for Kees, who is poised to have a big game shooting lights out over his smaller defenders. isiah and Larry's slight advantages don't make up for Hakeem's bigger advantage and Ellis' huge one. Sorry Snake :-(.


RiotPunch over BlackIce: 4-3

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Riot over BlackIce

BlackIce over RIotPunch

ICE over Riot

Blackice over Riotpunch
I just like the defensive feel of Blackice's team and feel that there is no better player to put on Magic Johnson than Dennis Johnson in this game.  I also think that Riot's team, regardless of the lineup they choose, is going to really struggle to keep Kareem under control and that the offensive and defensive balance of BI's team will carry the day.

Some stuff stands out... The fact BI picked Walton's 81 season, the same season in which he missed the entire year due to injury. Similarly with McAdoo, picking the season he played only 16 games with two different teams, and was traded mid season. And Riot picked Gervin/Roundfield in the 79-80 season, which is not available to be used. Doesn't do much to change anything in my mind, since they are similar, and in Roundfield's case potentially better after 80. I'm also not a fan of how Riot went about his minutes rotation, in fact I would have drastically changed it - but BI didn't even post a minutes rotation. Is it a four man big rotation? It is truly a battle of two teams that are polar opposites..Riot with a ridiculous offense heralded by the greatest offensive force the game has ever seen...while BI boasts a strong defense with everything centered around Kareem. I don't like Riot's backup big men rotation, but there's something about BI's team seems missing to me - and I think that's a lack of a perimeter creator to compliment Kareem, which makes it easier to defend, I'd think.

I don't think Kareem will be stopped here. He should dominate this series, and that's big...what if Sampson got in foul trouble one game, could Bol potentially handle more minutes for a stretch of a playoff game? And BI has far more favorable defensive matchups (RIot doesn't have many defensive matchups) - but at the same time, I'm starting to wonder how much that defensive edge really carries. When you have Magic, you're gonna run on every possession, and this team really compliments Magic very nicely offensivly. I think 1-4 is nearly flawless, and Sampson fits in perfectly offensively as a center. They won't allow BI's defense to get set, Magic will still get his, Dumars is perfect next to him, Gervin is a superstar scorer, and putting Roundfield back into the starting lineup was completely the right move. And another question is, what if one of BI's guys doesn't have a big game, will the offense be enough?

I do think I underrate BlackIce's offense a little, it's not explosive, and does lack creators, but there isn't anyone in his lineup that I'd call a liability. And SIkma/Miller create good spacing, which allows Kareem to truly be the focal point of the offense, especially against a defense that's helpless to stop him. But I keep going back to that same question; will it be enough to outscore Riot's offensive attack...Sampson forces Kareem to go more on the perimeter, and Magic should push the tempo and get all the other scorers involved..and when you have a player like that who puts it all together, it's tough..I mean the final question becomes, do you think BI has enough offense to outscore Riot's team...or not?

At this point in time, something I've deliberated with for a couple hours..I just think Riot's team is more explosive, which is the slightest edge in the series.


Riot over BI
Hardest matchup to judge IMO. It really comes down to whether you go with Riot's high octane offense, or BlackIce's defense and a roster relying on Kareem to produce. Gervin/Dumars/Magic is just insanity and Riot's selection of Roundfield and Sampson really fit the team dynamic, those guys can run and had great mid-range games. I feel like BI would be too reliant on Kareem in this series, and even if Kareem managed to get his, can he rely on Sikma/Wilkes to produce at a high enough level to score the points necessary to win? I don't think so and I'm a big believer in Magic Johnson's ability in this era, so I'm going to go Riot by a hair.

I also think despite it being unorthodox, Worthy at PF would've given BI all sorts of problems since Sikma really wouldn't be able to match up. And with BI's offense relying on Kareem, Sikma would likely be operating from the perimeter and Worthy could at least contest out there.

blackice vs. riot: very close matchup. just looking at the lineups wasn't enough. once i went through the write ups, i started leaning towards one side. vote goes to riot

riot


bryant08 over RR9: 5-1

Code: Select all

bryant08 over RR9
I wish there was a minutes rotation, and more an overall game-plan/research into RR9's thought process. I'd suggest that for next era even moreso, because I think his team will be ridiculously hard to beat with the cast he'll be taking over. The team right now is very good too - Pippen and Hornacek are pre prime, and that's bigger in the grand scheme of this game, against peak all-star caliber guys. I'm a Nique fan, and am under the belief he is underrated, but I don't understand his or English's role on this team, with both of them coming off the bench. Schrempf also isn't much this era either. I liked the Eaton pickup. Jordan will dominate, even with Moncrief on him, and McHale/Parish is obviously a proven - very good front-court. But overall, I think bryant's make up wins this for him, Erving should have a big series, Malone and McHale is a terrific battle, as is Laimbeer and Parish. Saying this out loud, bryant seems to have the rebounding edge as well. Porter was a big game performer, and the bench has more well defined roles.

bryant08 over RR9
This one is really close, but bryant08 is right when he says that RR9's squad is better suited to be dominant next era. Still, with that being said, this is a 7 game series. I give the slight nod to bryant because he has the best perimeter defender in this era (possibly of all time) to throw on #23-- and he has two superstars to produce on offense in Erving and the Mailman. 90's Pippen would be able to hold Dr. J in check, but I think 80's Pippen gets worked pretty hard.

RR9 over bryant08

Bryant over RR9
I actually like RR9's team this era despite the fact that, in terms of depth, its somewhat more geared towards the next era.  Jordan and a strong front court like Mchale/Parish makes him extremely difficult to go against in this type of context.  Still, I think bryant has a deadly 3 man core that can contest rr9's trio, and there is a lot of depth and versatility on bryant's team that I'm not sure rr9's inexperienced bench can handle.

Bryant over RR

bryant08 over RR9
This one is really close, but bryant08 is right when he says that RR9's squad is better suited to be dominant next era. Still, with that being said, this is a 7 game series. I give the slight nod to bryant because he has the best perimeter defender in this era (possibly of all time) to throw on #23-- and he has two superstars to produce on offense in Erving and the Mailman. 90's Pippen would be able to hold Dr. J in check, but I think 80's Pippen gets worked pretty hard.


[BlackIce]

Good match Riot, you deserved it. Another tough matchup for me, I'll have to allocate my funds better next era. Once again congrats!

[TMACFORMVP]

Thanks, moss.

So, I guess going from that...the matchups are..

bryant v. Riot
TMAC v. Snake
Bone v. RR9
BI v. Kees

Writeups due tomorrow 9 PM EST. Get em in sooner if possible.

[-Kees-]

PG: Kevin Johnson 36 / Byron Scott 12
SG: Dale Ellis 36 / Alvin Robertson 12
SF: Alvin Robertson 24 / Adrian Dantley 24 / Jerome Kersey
PF: Charles Oakley 30 / Horace Grant 18
Cc: Hakeem Olajuwon 38 / Swen Nater 10

Good luck Mr. Ice.

We will work through Ellis, Johnson and Hakeem. The overall efficiency of my team on both sides of the ball should get me the win here. Add in DPOY Robertson, one of the top anchors in Hakeem, and my defense can shut down anyone. Neither Hakeem or Kareem was in their prime, but Hakeem was closer, and probably more impactful than Kareem. Dale Ellis > Reggie Miller, they both were shooters, but Ellis was better from three and had greater volume. Dantley comes off the bench to give up some monster scoring in a limited time. BI's team is really lacking that takeover wing, but any of KJ, Ellis or Dantley can do that for us, and carry the offense for stretches. I just feel that I have overall more talent than BI.

[Snakebites]

We meet again:

TMAC VS SNAKE



I faced TMAC and was defeated in the last game, but luckily, I believe certain factors give me the upper hand in this era and will allow us to carry the day and leave TMAC in the dust this time around. I've already given a basic outline of my team what makes it great, so lets jump straight into what makes our team better:

EXPERIENCE: When looking at the players on TMAC's team in terms of what they've accomplished to this point in their careers, I think that is where my advantage becomes clearer.

Barkley was a great player with great stats, but he lead a playoff team to a round one 3-0 loss against Patrick Ewing's Knick team. In a couple of years, he will request a trade to a contending playoff team, having been unable to lead one by himself.

Drexler put up impressive playoff numbers in one year, but as of the end of this era only escaped the first round one single time in his career up to this point.

Price and Mullin had both yet to see the second round in the playoffs.

Meanwhile, my team has Larry Bird, at this time already a multiple champion, surrounded by Isiah Thomas (already leading contending Pistons teams), Andrew Toney (won playoff games by himself), and a strong supporting cast.

2) THE TRIO. The trio of Larry Bird, Isiah Thomas, and Patrick Ewing, as mentioned before, fits together perfectly. But that's not where this ends. When I look at the matchup here, I'm really not seeing TMAC as having that great an ability to derail ANY of my players. As as already been seen, Marques Johnson, despite his skills, was never able to do much against the absolute peak Larry Bird of the mid-80s, at least not defensively. Larry Bird isn't just a scorer either. He's one of the best passers in NBA history, boasts a huge rebounding advantage over any opponent, and will turn his level of play up in this game. In him I have the best player in the series by a rather healthy margin and I see little to indicate he wont be the MVP of this series.
As nice as Mark Price was offensively, he simply was also known as a weak defensive player. Peak Isiah will cut through him like a hot knife through butter, not only being effective himself as a scorer (his numbers go UP quite a bit in the playoffs), but also penetrating and kicking the ball out to any one of our jumpshooting threats (Bird, Toney, Ewing). Isiah and Bird can both initiate our offense successfully and there's frankly not much to stop them.
Ewing is also not a terrific matchup for Gilmore. Gilmore by this stage was older, and he always had trouble guarding big men with range. Ewing will serve the Chris Bosh-esque role in this offense as a ranged big third option, and comparing his youth with the older Gilmore, this is a rough matchup for TMAC as well.

3) DEFENSE: Lets compare the defenses of these two teams. On one side, up front, I have the complementary pair of the shotblocking anchor in Ewing and the tough enforcer in Buck Williams, both of whom . This combination anchors a very strong interior defense that will help to limit TMAC's penetrators (Barkley, Drexler). On the other hand, TMAC has the defensively weak Charles Barkley and an older Artis Gilmore, who anchored Spurs teams that were decidedly below average defensively.
On the perimeter, TMAC is average defensively with the solid Marques Johnson, okay Clyde Drexler, and poor Mark Price. While this isn't a terrible perimeter defense, with Isiah, Bird, and Toney starting, this is unfortunately where he really needs defense the most. My team is strong defensively and should be able to keep TMAC's balanced offense from taking over the game, whereas my team simply has too much firepower for TMAC's so-so team defense to contain.