did lebron really deserve to win ROY?

[parapooper]

Even if boxscore stats were pretty even, Melo was one of the very worst defenders in the NBA by RAPM and had one of the worst overall RAPMs in the league while LeBron was basically an average NBA player straight out of high school.

[83SixersRocked]

... if the tables were turned, melo was the high school Phenom and number one pick, would lebron still have won it?

This is not the question in your title. Which are you asking?

[ERRDAY3]

Wade was a better player than both he was more efficient and a better defender

[lovethewire]

... if the tables were turned, melo was the high school Phenom and number one pick, would lebron still have won it?

This is not the question in your title. Which are you asking?

Sure it is they're one in the same

[Joao Saraiva]

I always thought melo should have been rookie of the year, I never actually checked the numbers until tonight,aside from melo getting his team to the playoffs, he also shot a better fg% 3% free throw % and was better on the boards, LEBRON had all the hype, but if the tables were turned, melo was the high school Phenom and number one pick, would lebron still have won it?

3% better in FG... lol. Somehow you forgot the APG. That didn't matter, right? You only choose the stats you want. What about steals and blocks also? Cause LBJ was better in both.

The blocks and steals differential really isn't that big, also LeBron played more total minutes and MPG then Melo. Averaging .2 blocks more a game is nothing. LeBron's passing was a lot better then Melo's but I think Melo has a pretty solid case against him for winning that year.

So the 0.2 blocks are nothing but 3% shooting is. Whatever helps you sleep.

Plus more minutes means more endurance. Means getting more TOs vs AST, means going down in your %s due to being tired. So LeBron's efficiency going a little down, can I blame it also on minutes?

[83SixersRocked]

... if the tables were turned, melo was the high school Phenom and number one pick, would lebron still have won it?

This is not the question in your title. Which are you asking?

Sure it is they're one in the same

no, they are not. the first requires an opinion; the second, clairvoyance.

[og15]

I'm not sure I agree about the more minutes causing more TO's to assists, worse efficiency up to the level of a 3% difference in FG%, etc, that's not really true. Lebron played even more the next season, and of course he improved, but he also had higher efficiency and a lower turnover rate, then again the season after that. Then the third season following that, he had less minutes and lower efficiency and higher turnover rate than the previous season. He has good enough stamina where it's not an issue.

[HEAT33]

Basketball is played on both ends of the court.

They were pretty much the same offensively with Melo the better shooter and Lebron the better playmaker.

On defense, Rookie Lebron was still far ahead of Melo.

Lebron putting up 20/5/5 straight out of highschool cements it even more.

END THREAD

[koogiking]

Rookie Lebron was a complete crap defender. Same goes for Melo

[TheOUTLAW]

Nobody is saying that LeBron was a good defender, just that he was a better one than Carmelo. He definitely gambled too much for steals

[Doctor MJ]

How was Melo not hugely responsible for the Nuggets turn around? Yet you mention Duncan?

Tackling just the Melo part first. There really isn't any way for a player to single handedly turnaround a team and not leave some kind of +/- trail behind him. There isn't any metric along the lines you can find where rookie Melo or rookie LeBron looks great. Doesn't mean they weren't impressive rookies, but when you're talking about Melo causing a 25 game turnaround, that's not just a ROY type of accomplishment, that's MVP candidate worthy, which no one looking at box score stats would have advocated for him either.

So yeah, great rookies, but people got over excited because of other factors beyond their control.

Okay, so now you say, "Doc, isn't that exactly what you're doing for Duncan?"

This is a good point to make, but do keep in mind I'm not saying Duncan single handedly lifted the Spurs that year which would have meant a 35 win improvement that puts him FAR beyond even MVP levels. I'm saying he was only part of that. Of course Melo & LeBron were "part" of their team's improvements as well, so where do I draw the line? Well, rookie Duncan looks better by every measurement and analysis we do have in addition to the ginormous team improvement, so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[qm22]

Funny enough, some other rookie took over as the best by the end of the season... LeBron deserved the ROY though.

Not a too shabby top 3 rooks for this year ;

LeBron 39,5 mpg 20,9 ppg 5,9 rpg 5,5 apg 1,6 spg 0,7 bpg 41,7 % fg 29,0 % 3pt 75,4 % ft

Melo 36,5 mpg 21.0 ppg 6,1 rpg 2,8 apg 1,2 spg 0,5 bpg 42,6 % fg 32,2 % 3pt 77,7 % ft

Wade 34,9 mpg 16,2 ppg 4 rpg 4,5 apg 1,4 spg 0,6 bpg 46,5 % fg 30,2 % 3pt 74,7 % ft

Playoffs ;

LeBron N/A

Melo 4 games 35,8 mpg 15 ppg 8,3 rpg 2,8 apg 1,2 spg 0 bpg 32,8 % fg 18,2 % 3pt 80 % ft

Wade 13 games 39,2 mpg 18 ppg 4 rpg 5,6 apg 1,3 spg 0,3 bpg 45,5 % fg 37,5 % 3pt 78,7 % ft + 1 gamewinner!

At no point was Wade the best rookie, don't try to lump him with Bron or Melo because he doesn't belong

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooll.......

I'm genuinely amused by this, since I've always thought that Melo's been lumping himself in with LeBron his whole career, and aside from his WCF run it's been the best way to make Melo look good. Like in this thread.

Wade and Carmelo had identical PER (which were both slightly less than LeBron's), and that favors Carmelo's style because of scoring. The poster you dismissed provided pretty compelling evidence, and we all know Wade has been better than Carmelo throughout his career, so it is curious he is excluded in a rookie comparison. But I guess since Carmelo has not accomplished enough with basketball Carmelo himself is the one to blame for you having to resort to such childish arguments.

[Tumakapac713]

I felt Melo deserved the ROY as well. The only significant difference in Melo and LBJ's stats is LBJ's 3 assists more per game but I feel that Melo's shooting %s and the fact that the Nuggets made the playoffs should have put him over the top.