(Post SL Pre Season) Who would you have drafted in 2012?

[hands11]

At #3 I still would have taken Beal. Ive seen nothing from him or from anyone else that leads me to believe he was not the BPA at that pick.

My opinion on Lamb is the same as it was 3 months ago, Nick Young 3.1, Maybe even Nick Young XP... or Vista. Time will tell whether he reaches his potential. We are done gambling on players like Lamb though. We needed a guaranteed home run with the pick, I still believe in Beal.

Right. Lets see how he does once he is scouted and they take away they dribble to the left jump shot he seems to love so much.

The kid showed well for himself in summer league but it was just that.

I saw Beal as the best choice for the team way back when and nothing has changed to make me think differently. He is not only the talent they needed but he is the personality they needed. I'm just disappointed they didn't get Mason back. Wall, Crawford, Beal and Mason would have been a nice four man rotation at guard.

I guess they are banking that the Cartier kid is going to give them what they need in place of Mason. Something just doesn't feel right to me though. I think they needed Mason.

[hands11]

3. Beal
32. Crowder
46. Denmon

If I could have done CCJ's trade, I'd have taken Lillard and Zeller.

If I could have acquired another 2nd round pick high enough, I'd have taken Barton. Yet another 2nd round pick I liked: Darius Johnson-Odom.

I also liked O'Quinn, but I would have preferred to get him as an undrafted free agent.

Lillard and Zeller was the trade down I got behind if one was to happen.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

3. Beal
32. Crowder
46. Denmon

If I could have done CCJ's trade, I'd have taken Lillard and Zeller.

If I could have acquired another 2nd round pick high enough, I'd have taken Barton. Yet another 2nd round pick I liked: Darius Johnson-Odom.

I also liked O'Quinn, but I would have preferred to get him as an undrafted free agent.

Zeller is the guy I wanted with #11 originally, and he would be a good pick.

I could just be buying in too much to Henson's summer league, but he was the best big man overall IMO. If he has offense to go with what should be very good defense and rebounding, Henson will be a good player.

[Dat2U]

I know Ruzious would have me fired, but had I had any inkling of the Bobcats drafting MKG, I would have tried to trade up and would have offered any player outside of Wall or Nene (hopefully Craw?) to do so, maybe even as much as protected future 1st.

I had MKG on a tier by himself, below Davis and above Beal. I like Beal but I absolutely loved MKG and I think he will be a multiple all-star and a big time winner. I also think MKG is one of those rare guys to make his teammates better, not just in the games but in practice and off the court as well. He's going define the culture and push the rest of the team to work harder.

2. MKG
32. Doron Lamb (based on what I saw in summer league - would have drafted Q Miller before).
48. Kyle O'Quinn (would have drafted Marcus Denmon prior but he's too similar to Lamb IMO).

I would have bought out Shart. Amnestied Blatche. Traded Booker/Singleton or for a S&T with Ryan Anderson and hopefully would have created enough salary space (by trading Craw, Booker & Singleton to sign Lou Williams as well.

Wall, MKG, Nene, Anderson, Williams & Seraphin would be the core. That a strong six IMO. A very strong six (and fairly young outside of Nene) with a nice mix of offense & defense. Vesely, Lamb, J.Singleton & C. Martin would fill out the rest of the rotation.

[Ruzious]

Dat, I'd keep you on - At least I can depend on you to not throw away 2nd round picks in a draft that has good 2nd round options. I do like your other moves. I think you're going a bit overboard about MKG's intangibles - much like you did last year about Kemba Walker's. With Kemba's intangibles, the CharBobs were about the laziest defensive team I've ever seen. They didn't even try against the Wiz. Leadership doesn't necessarily carry over from college to the NBA. Michael Jordan had the greatest intangibles I've ever seen in the NBA, and it was Worthy and Perkins who were known as UNC's primary leaders when he was there - not him.

[payitforward]

#3. Drummond
#32. QMiller
#46. Hollis Thompson

Hollis Thompson went undrafted I believe. Why would you have spent a pick on him? Why not just sign him for training camp the day after the draft? In that case, you could trade the #46 pick for a pick next year.

Hollis went undrafted for a reason. Surgery.

But obviously, the Thunder think pretty highly of him considering they partially guaranteed his contract.

Good. But what does this have to do with my point? I guess it just confirms it. We could have signed him after the draft. As OKC did.

[payitforward]

3. Beal
32. Crowder
46. Denmon

If I could have done CCJ's trade, I'd have taken Lillard and Zeller.

If I could have acquired another 2nd round pick high enough, I'd have taken Barton. Yet another 2nd round pick I liked: Darius Johnson-Odom.

I also liked O'Quinn, but I would have preferred to get him as an undrafted free agent.

Lillard and Zeller was the trade down I got behind if one was to happen.

+1

[payitforward]

I know Ruzious would have me fired, but had I had any inkling of the Bobcats drafting MKG, I would have tried to trade up and would have offered any player outside of Wall or Nene (hopefully Craw?) to do so, maybe even as much as protected future 1st.

I had MKG on a tier by himself, below Davis and above Beal. I like Beal but I absolutely loved MKG and I think he will be a multiple all-star and a big time winner. I also think MKG is one of those rare guys to make his teammates better, not just in the games but in practice and off the court as well. He's going define the culture and push the rest of the team to work harder.

2. MKG
32. Doron Lamb (based on what I saw in summer league - would have drafted Q Miller before).
48. Kyle O'Quinn (would have drafted Marcus Denmon prior but he's too similar to Lamb IMO).

I would have bought out Shart. Amnestied Blatche. Traded Booker/Singleton or for a S&T with Ryan Anderson and hopefully would have created enough salary space (by trading Craw, Booker & Singleton to sign Lou Williams as well.

Wall, MKG, Nene, Anderson, Williams & Seraphin would be the core. That a strong six IMO. A very strong six (and fairly young outside of Nene) with a nice mix of offense & defense. Vesely, Lamb, J.Singleton & C. Martin would fill out the rest of the rotation.

Dat's response turns this thread into something different -- and I think more interesting. What would *your* off-season have been? Not just draft; all your moves. What squad results, and how much does it cost?

[Nivek]

I like Dat's offseason a lot, though I would have gone with my draft picks instead of trading up for MKG. I had MKG and Beal as basically equals in YODA so I'd have been happy with either guy. It would have been awfully nice to use Washington's cap space to do what New Orleans did with it. I liked Lou Williams as well, who I think would have been a solid 3rd guard.

[Zonkerbl]

Kevin gave us a list of free agents who were still available when we traded away Rashard -- I forget who they are. Maybe we could have gotten Ilyasova I guess instead of Okafor? Younger, cheaper, maybe fits our needs a little better, but we would have had to give him a longer contract. Really the best option for improving the team long run would be to buy out Rashard, amensty Blatche, and then wait until Rashard's buyout comes off the books next summer. You would have Wall, Beal, Singleton, Nene, KS, and Ves/Booker/Crawford as your core for a year -- hm. Not such a bad team, really, with the option to sign a max player next year.

Or you could amnesty Blatche, buy out Rashard, and sign Ilyasova (or best rebounder available in free agency) instead of trading for Okafor and Ariza, and have Wall, Beal, Singleton, Nene, Ilyasova, and KS/Ves/Booker/Crawford.

Or do what EG did and have Wall, Beal, Ariza, Nene, and Okafor with a bench of Crawford/Singleton/Ves/Booker/KS. But no cap flexibility at all next year.

[Nivek]

On another thread, I did post an "alternative universe" offseason. One where the Wiz drafted Beal, Crowder and Denmon and then bought out Lewis and amnestied Blatche. Then the team would have had sufficient cap room to outbid Dallas for Brand (bridge PF for a season); outbid San Antonio for Danny Green, and outbid Atlanta for Lou Williams.

OR

They could have done a sign and trade for Ryan Anderson and likely still had enough space to sign Lou Williams or Danny Green.

OR

They may have been able to outbid Milwaukee for Ilyasova (or work a sign and trade for him).

The first scenario at the top would have left the Wizards with significant cap flexibility next offseason -- somewhere in the vicinity of $8-9 million.

But no. The Wizards got their "certainty" a week before the draft.

[Kanyewest]

On another thread, I did post an "alternative universe" offseason. One where the Wiz drafted Beal, Crowder and Denmon and then bought out Lewis and amnestied Blatche. Then the team would have had sufficient cap room to outbid Dallas for Brand (bridge PF for a season); outbid San Antonio for Danny Green, and outbid Atlanta for Lou Williams.

OR

They could have done a sign and trade for Ryan Anderson and likely still had enough space to sign Lou Williams or Danny Green.

OR

They may have been able to outbid Milwaukee for Ilyasova (or work a sign and trade for him).

The first scenario at the top would have left the Wizards with significant cap flexibility next offseason -- somewhere in the vicinity of $8-9 million.

But no. The Wizards got their "certainty" a week before the draft.

I agree that buying out Rashard Lewis and Andray Blatche is a start to a successful offseason.

For Danny Green, I wonder if his statistical production is the product of the Spurs offense. When OKC did a better job of defending Green then the Clippers or the Jazz, Green was pretty ineffective, shooting 26 fg% and 18% from 3 point range. Yes that's a low sample size but it does point to the fact that relying on Green more than a 20 mpg game player could be risky.

With Lou Williams, I find it telling that Philly chose not to re-sign Lou Williams and decided to sign Nick Young to a 1 year rental. Perhaps Lou Williams wanted to go somewhere where he can start and he is more likely to get that chance in ATL then with Was or Philly.

Ryan Andrson is an interesting investment but not without risk either. His $9 million a year contract was too steep for Orlando. Anderson's numbers dropped off when Howard went down with an injury. I think Anderson's efficiency is likely to drop but could increase if Anthony Davis proves to be a dominant player down the line.

I don't think the Wizards would have been able to outbid Illyasova- while the Bucks were able to agree to a reasonable contract- no one is sure how much their willingness to pay was- maybe the Bucks decides to match up to $13 million a year.

[Nivek]

I agree that buying out Rashard Lewis and Andray Blatche is a start to a successful offseason.

For Danny Green, I wonder if his statistical production is the product of the Spurs offense. When OKC did a better job of defending Green then the Clippers or the Jazz, Green was pretty ineffective, shooting 26 fg% and 18% from 3 point range. Yes that's a low sample size but it does point to the fact that relying on Green more than a 20 mpg game player could be risky.

Every move has risk. And I wouldn't have been signing Green with an expectation that he become a star -- I'd use him as a 3 and D SF who'd get to play basically the same role he played with the Spurs.

With Lou Williams, I find it telling that Philly chose not to re-sign Lou Williams and decided to sign Nick Young to a 1 year rental. Perhaps Lou Williams wanted to go somewhere where he can start and he is more likely to get that chance in ATL then with Was or Philly.

I don't find it telling at all. Philly made an awful move when they signed Young instead of Williams. Williams may want to start, but there's no guarantee he'll start in Atlanta. And Washington could have offered him more money.

Ryan Andrson is an interesting investment but not without risk either. His $9 million a year contract was too steep for Orlando. Anderson's numbers dropped off when Howard went down with an injury. I think Anderson's efficiency is likely to drop but could increase if Anthony Davis proves to be a dominant player down the line.

Anderson's efficiency did drop with Howard out. However, last year, Orlando was Howard and Anderson and nothing else worthwhile. Redick was the only other player on the roster who rated above average in my stuff. They had 5 guys at or below replacement level in my rating system play at least 450 minutes. Recall also that Anderson was returning from a sprained ankle when Howard went out for good with the back, and that Anderson returned to the lineup before he was 100% specifically because Howard was out. I'd be willing to take a shot on a 24-year old PF with extended periods of excellent production, who struggled when he was a) not at full speed; and b) experiencing life as the focal point of opposing defenses for the first time.

I don't think the Wizards would have been able to outbid Illyasova- while the Bucks were able to agree to a reasonable contract- no one is sure how much their willingness to pay was- maybe the Bucks decides to match up to $13 million a year.

You could be right.

[DCZards]

I don't think the Zards should have signed Danny Green. I expect Chris Singleton to turn out to be as good (or better) than Green in that 3 and D SF role. Maybe not this year, but in 2-3 years. Plus Singleton is younger and costs less.

[MF23]

Traded back to Cle. Picked Waiters @ 4, Perry Jones @ 24 and Will Barton @ 32. Then hired a new S & C coach and really set in a program where players bought into development mirroring Okc Thunder.

Waiters has a no nonsense coach who will develop him. Jones is in a system where everybody puts in consistent work as mentioned. Barton has the mind of a star player but needs time to work on his entire game.

[Nivek]

I don't think the Zards should have signed Danny Green. I expect Chris Singleton to turn out to be as good (or better) than Green in that 3 and D SF role. Maybe not this year, but in 2-3 years. Plus Singleton is younger and costs less.

Signing Green would not have prevented Singleton from developing into a better 3&D player than Green. There'd have been playing time for each in my scenario -- assuming, of course, they could have beaten out Crowder for minutes.

[TGW]

I don't think the Zards should have signed Danny Green. I expect Chris Singleton to turn out to be as good (or better) than Green in that 3 and D SF role. Maybe not this year, but in 2-3 years. Plus Singleton is younger and costs less.

You "expect" Singleton to turn out to be a better player? What has Singleton done to make you so sure of his abilities?

That's some good kool aid drinking if I've ever seen it.

[Kanyewest]

I don't find it telling at all. Philly made an awful move when they signed Young instead of Williams. Williams may want to start, but there's no guarantee he'll start in Atlanta. And Washington could have offered him more money.

Yeah, I forgot to add the part that it was telling of either Lou Williams or Philly's management. I think that his chances of starting in ATL aren't guaranteed but I think Lou Wililams realized that he wasn't going to beat out Jrue Holiday in Philly. And in Washington, his chances are obviously less.

Anderson's efficiency did drop with Howard out. However, last year, Orlando was Howard and Anderson and nothing else worthwhile. Redick was the only other player on the roster who rated above average in my stuff. They had 5 guys at or below replacement level in my rating system play at least 450 minutes. Recall also that Anderson was returning from a sprained ankle when Howard went out for good with the back, and that Anderson returned to the lineup before he was 100% specifically because Howard was out. I'd be willing to take a shot on a 24-year old PF with extended periods of excellent production, who struggled when he was a) not at full speed; and b) experiencing life as the focal point of opposing defenses for the first time.

And how does Washington compare to Orlando?

[payitforward]

I don't think the Zards should have signed Danny Green. I expect Chris Singleton to turn out to be as good (or better) than Green in that 3 and D SF role. Maybe not this year, but in 2-3 years. Plus Singleton is younger and costs less.

You expect this based on what? On his performance in college? Not as good as Green's. On his performance in the league? Not good so far; what about it makes your crystal ball shimmer?

Not going after a good player because you expect a bad player to turn into a good player doesn't usually work out -- I can't think of a case, anyway.

Not saying Singleton can't improve -- he's young enough that of course he can get better. How much better? Who knows -- really, he wasn't that good a college player. He wasn't the right draft choice. He didn't play well as a rookie.

You really want to double down on him? The dealer is licking his chops.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I don't think the Zards should have signed Danny Green. I expect Chris Singleton to turn out to be as good (or better) than Green in that 3 and D SF role. Maybe not this year, but in 2-3 years. Plus Singleton is younger and costs less.

You expect this based on what? On his performance in college? Not as good as Green's. On his performance in the league? Not good so far; what about it makes your crystal ball shimmer?

Not going after a good player because you expect a bad player to turn into a good player doesn't usually work out -- I can't think of a case, anyway.

Not saying Singleton can't improve -- he's young enough that of course he can get better. How much better? Who knows -- really, he wasn't that good a college player. He wasn't the right draft choice. He didn't play well as a rookie.

You really want to double down on him? The dealer is licking his chops.

I still have hopes for Singleton. I think he can turn out to be a good starting caliber forward. We'll see what he does this year. He needs to cut to the basket more and attack more offensively. He would of been ideal in Eddie Jordan's system with all the back door cuts. Imagine him in JJ's role back when they had the Gil/Hughes backcourt and Jeffries was at SF, Singleton would shine in that place. I'd like to see him try to pattern his game more after someone like Kenyon Martin. But just as a 3 & D type forward I think he can at least find a niche if nothing else. Also from what I've seen he's been pretty effective when given ops at PF, and I think he can fill the need for a stretch 4. I'd rather try to utilize Singleton in that role also rather than sign someone like Tolliver.