Got Dwight Envy?

[ecuhus1981]

I'm not sure how other Nets fans feel about the Dwight-to-LAL blockbuster, but I wanted to share my frustration. I'm disappointed on a number of levels:

1) We didn't get Dwight. Sounds obvious, but it bears mentioning. The Nets are going to be a dominant offensive team, no doubt. But we will never be truly elite without getting tough stops late in the postseason. Now, we have a nucleus (coach and team) that is capable of providing an elite level of defense. But I would've felt much more confident about our ability to back up Prokhy's "championship or bust" words if we had landed the best defender in the game.

2) LAL got him, FOR CHEAP. Every time it looks like the Lakers are going to have to take two steps backward to execute the superstar trade they covet, they somehow swindle their way into another video-game lineup. Nash-Bryant-Peace-Gasol-Howard could literally be the best team in decades. I had maintained for months that Pau and Andrew would both have to leave in order to satisfy ORL's value needs. Wrong. I can't believe Hennigan would try to turn the screw on us, Houston, Cleveland and everyone else who'd been in trade talks. Then he turns around and says yes to Afflalo and a pupu platter of 3rd-tier prospects. AND they absorb Harrington??? The silver lining to the Melodrama was that we made NYK overpay for him, and King pulled off a backup option that was even better than getting Anthony. Neither of those side-effects will happen here.

3) Our division just got even tougher. PHI made a cagey move here. Their pre-trade team was a 1st-round flameout in the making, and now they are poised to challenge the very best in the East. Iggy has really turned a corner, but Turner has a more complete game and a higher ceiling IMO. Moving him for the 2nd-best C in the NBA is a masterstroke. Since it was executed by our former GM Thorn, we shouldn't be surprised. Make no mistake, the Atlantic is going to be a meat-grinder. As good as I know we'll be, this trade probably just impacted our W-L record, seeding and overall outlook in more ways than one.

[Keith Van Horn]

I'm still happy with our team. I'm happy we have the players we have and I'm happy with our coach, GM, and owner. We still have a lot to be grateful for. We're still a top 5 team in the East for years to come.

Give this team some time to mesh together and we're going to be an amazing force to be reckoned with. I still think we're going to need a few pieces and for a few things to go our way.

If Lebron goes down in the playoffs or gets a nagging injury that bites him all throughout the regular season (like Wade did this past year), I can see us getting by the Heat. Wade isn't the same player he used to be, but I'm not underestimating him. I think they're poorly coached and will have a hard time finding a direction without Lebron.

If we can learn to handle to Celtics, and since we play them a lot b/c they're in our division, I think we'll be ok. They still worry me the most though b/c their still such a complete team... meaning coaching, players that work well together, etc.

I'm not nervous about Philly at all. Their balanced scoring that made them such a unique threat last season will be gone since Bynum will demand the ball. It's going to be a completely different season in Philly this year, and about halfway through the season they're going to lose their focus on ball b/c Bynum is going to start listening to offers from elsewhere.

Pacers/Knicks/Bulls/Hawks = not worried if we get them in a 7 game series.

Dwight made his own bed. If he really wanted to come here he wouldn't have signed on for an extra year. I'm expecting him to remain with the Lakers for a long time, until he becomes a journyman like Shaq.

[Sharcm1]

I'm happy that the nets didn't get Howard. I think some distraction would have come with him and it would have hour the team to lose all the assets they would have lost to trade for him. If Lopez comes back and plays the way we know he can then the nets will be a very good team. I'm not sold that Howard would have given the nets a championship. We would have had major spots to fill in the roster after trading for him.

I like the team. I think their talents go well together and we will see what happens. I know the goal is to win a championship but i would be happy with a very competitive team every year.

[vincecarter4pres]

I'm happy that the nets didn't get Howard. I think some distraction would have come with him and it would have hour the team to lose all the assets they would have lost to trade for him. If Lopez comes back and plays the way we know he can then the nets will be a very good team. I'm not sold that Howard would have given the nets a championship. We would have had major spots to fill in the roster after trading for him.

You don't believe this drivel you just typed do you?

[NyCeEvO]

I'm happy that the nets didn't get Howard. I think some distraction would have come with him and it would have hour the team to lose all the assets they would have lost to trade for him. If Lopez comes back and plays the way we know he can then the nets will be a very good team. I'm not sold that Howard would have given the nets a championship. We would have had major spots to fill in the roster after trading for him.

You don't believe this drivel you just typed do you?

No, he just forgot to green font the entire post.

[vincecarter4pres]

3) Our division just got even tougher. PHI made a cagey move here. Their pre-trade team was a 1st-round flameout in the making, and now they are poised to challenge the very best in the East. Iggy has really turned a corner, but Turner has a more complete game and a higher ceiling IMO. Moving him for the 2nd-best C in the NBA is a masterstroke. Since it was executed by our former GM Thorn, we shouldn't be surprised. Make no mistake, the Atlantic is going to be a meat-grinder. As good as I know we'll be, this trade probably just impacted our W-L record, seeding and overall outlook in more ways than one.

You had me til this one.

Did Philly get good value and improve? Absolutely.

But other then that... meh...

They went from a team I expected to have a bottom five record in the league as a likely case and best case of the 9 seed to what still isn't even close to a guaranteed playoff team with a ceiling of the 5 seed and likely case of the 7th or 8th.

They aren't challenging the very best in the East, that's nonsense.

Bynum was the 3rd best player on a team with two HOFer's in which he became the 2nd option and that team was lambasted in embarrassing fashion the last two seasons in the 2nd round.

Bynum is a very good player, but he's not what he's made out to be and miraculously played a full season last year.

Just wait til he's the focal point of an offense. Let alone all the extra attention he'll see from the opposing defense and the fact his passing is not good out of the post, he's also a black hole with an overrated post game who forces bad shots that would make Lopez blush so bad his face looks like a fire engine.

He also draws notoriously few fouls and free throw attempts for a player of his size and girth with a power game who spends so much time on the low block guarded by smaller players who can't compete with his physical gifts and athleticism around the rim.

I am not going to lie to myself or you, I do expect his attempts to go up, but this is a guy who hit a career high last year of 5.6 attempts and 5.8 per 36.

I expect about 6 to 6.5 next year, which is very good, but this isn't some take over the game dominant force people think he is.

I'm expecting 21 and 12 on a paltry 51% for a player who operates so close to the hoop with no semblance of a jumper to speak of. TS% of like 54% at best.

His defense is massively overrated as well. He's a slow footed plodder who has trouble covering pick and rolls, similar to Brook. He's better then Brook at that and in general a better shot blocker, but the perception is key here. Bynum is perceived as a very good defender and Brook as putrid, when in reality Brook is bad and Bynum is mediocre. Great wing defenders and the perennially underrated and exceptionally mobile defender Pau Gasol allow Bynum to be effective and do what he does best, camp out extremely deep in the lane and help side shot contest. Wait til he's looked upon to be a mini Duncan or Dwight in Philly. Defensive 3's, blown assignments, foul trouble and quick high level finishers going off on Philly abound.

Sure I am only harping on his weaknesses, but we know his positives.

He'll produce good numbers and have a solid impact, but he's not a player that will lead a team far.

And they're going to want to play him 37 minutes a game. We haven't even got into his past injuries, plethora of surgeries or injury prone concerns.

This is a guy who is going to miss games.

You can't predict major injuries, those just happen to happen most times. But you can look at him and his weakened knees and say he is susceptible to injury.

You can also more importantly look at his specific injuries and say, he's going to have flare ups over the course of a full season where he puts in big minutes with a super high usage rate, role and responsibility. He's going to have a point where he gets knee swelling and mobility issues where they have to give him a full week off for 3 or 4 games. He's going to be a surprise late scratch here and there when he just needs a rest. He's going to tweak something where there's no structural damage, but he strains, sprains or hyper-extends something and needs a 2 week block of practices and set of back to back games off for rest and recuperation. And this is just this season as a 25 year old! He's going to miss 10 to 20 games a year with various ailments and needed cool down time like a Shaq. The problem here is when healthy he's not Shaq and there's no Kobe or Wade here, along with a great supporting cast and Phil Jackson to keep the team well above .500 when he's out or have them that far ahead in the standing where they can cruise when he's out and remain in the lead.

All this and I haven't even got into the rest of their suspect lineup and mediocre depth, let alone a couple of their true key role guys are very injury prone.

I think Evan Turner can and will breakout to the tune of something like 18/7/5 as the lead perimeter guy, who runs the offense a large chunk of time, but he's still not a true star and certainly not a takeover guy at this level.

Jrue Holiday? Eh, he's a solid player, an average tier level point guard with some decent remaining potential who's a hard nose defender and can he a good shooter, but he's a complimentary player to a star wing who they don't have.

Who else do they have after those two?

LaVoy Allen?

Thad Young?

Spencer Hawes?

Nick Young?

Jason Richardson?

Yikes.


The one thing I will say about Philly, because I refuse to be shortsighted... they are in prime position to make one, if not two big trades and then actually vault themselves to the top of the East.

That is why as much as I have killed them in the above I think this was a very good move for them.

Before this trade there were going to be awful, but possibly just 9 to 10 seed, pick 11 or 12 awful, which is the same no man's land they've been in for a long period.

They also get great value for Iggy, Harkless(who I like but don't love at all) and a lotto protected pick.

The move makes sense, they were a big winner in this trade as well.

Wing players are more likely to become available then big men, even point guards, so they setup two things here, or accomplish one and setup the other.

They accomplish getting one of the premier young bigs on the cheap.

They setup picking up a star wing or point guard to pair with him, while possibly keeping one of their remaining youths and still keeping a decent supporting cast.

Who are the types of players likely to become available now?

Rondo, Harden, Tony Parker, Rudy Gay, Kevin Martin and Luol Deng?

They could wind up with a nice mini-Big 3.

[PetroNet]

im not disappointed at all.... i was when he opted in... not so much now. that ship sailed for me a while ago and i really like our team. getting dwight wouild have been great but lopez is my favorite net and im glad he will be around for a long time to root for.

also less bandwagon fans/distractions/bs without dwight here.

im exicted to root for this nets team

[vincecarter4pres]

im not disappointed at all.... i was when he opted in... not so much now. that ship sailed for me a while ago and i really like our team. getting dwight wouild have been great but lopez is my favorite net and im glad he will be around for a long time to root for.

also less bandwagon fans/distractions/bs without dwight here.

im exicted to root for this nets team

I am happy to root for my team as well and don't have a beef with any of our specific players so much, outside of Humphries, but it kills me to look at this team and say, without an enormous move, just a major shakeup, we have about a 0.83% chance at winning the title and it maybe a struggle to even get to the 2nd round, let alone get to the cliche-ish area of the playoffs, the Conference Finals, "Where anything can happen... herp derp derp..."

I'll enjoy the games literally in the moments they are on television or when I'm occasionally at them, but the rest of the overall outlook is grim and trifling.

I don't think people understand how good the Lakers are going to be if healthy and how good the Heat already are, let alone OKC who has now become a dark horse with a sliver of a chance to even get to the Finals, let alone beat Miami.

The Lakers with Dwight, Kobe and Nash with their future cap completely tied up where beatable, at least in my delusional fanhood sense and personal thoughts. They were going to be a dominant force and one of the top 3 teams in the league, but not unbeatable, not a dynasty.

Those 3 plus add Pau and allow them to keep depth including Artest's craziness?

No one is beating that team if healthy.

There's something exceptionally dejecting about going into a season knowing this, especially when I hate the Lakers and Kobe to begin with.

[MeCarlos24]

Let me let you guys know. Thorn had little to nothing to do with getting Bynum, he is on his way out....

[llemon]

Lakers got Dwight for Bynum, fillers and a 1st rdr.

How much better was Dwight than Bynum last year?

Who suffered a back injury last season, Bynum or Dwight?

Glad Nets have finally gotten that idiotic back injured psychopath out of the picture.

Also expect the Nets to have a very good season if they remain reasonably healthy, and become determined to play some intense defense.

[624]

If this happened a few weeks ago I would be much more pissed.

I'm more concerned about the NFL season now.

[vincecarter4pres]

Lakers got Dwight for Bynum, fillers and a 1st rdr.

How much better was Dwight than Bynum last year?

Who suffered a back injury last season, Bynum or Dwight?

Dwight is light years ahead of Bynum on both ends.

This myth that Bynum is the better offensive player is comical and just a means to make the connection to them as level of players in comparisons and debates.

[The Hypnotoad]

This Laker trade makes me sick to my stomach. I mean, why did the Lakers even trade Bynum in this deal? They could have traded Pau for Iggy, heck they might have been able to trade Metta World Peace and some future picks for Iggy. Weren't the 76ers trying to give him away last season? Then they could have kept all three big guys.

I can't believe Orlando chose this over what we offered. Why do we even bother trying? This game is rigged.

[llemon]

Lakers got Dwight for Bynum, fillers and a 1st rdr.

How much better was Dwight than Bynum last year?

Who suffered a back injury last season, Bynum or Dwight?

Dwight is light years ahead of Bynum on both ends.

This myth that Bynum is the better offensive player is comical and just a means to make the connection to them as level of players in comparisons and debates.

Answer the question. How much better was Dwight than Bynum last season?

And are you saying Bynum doesn't have a better shooting touch than Howard.

[therealbig3]

^The ONLY reason you MAY be able to argue Bynum over Dwight last year was because of health...otherwise, when both were playing, Dwight was a significantly better player. And it goes beyond the box score too, he's a lot better offensively and defensively.

Anyway, the hypocrisy just all-around is crazy (regarding the media, the teams involved, and the fans).

Orlando got garbage. People whined and complained when it "Brook Lopez on a MAX deal!!!????" and "4 useless picks???", but they're ok with Al Harrington and his garbage play for 21 million over 3 years, Afflalo and his role player production for 30 million over 4 years (in other words...the SAME money they would have been paying Lopez per year, who I would take over both of them as a player any day), a bunch of garbage players (none of whom are better than Marshon Brooks), a 4 draft picks WORSE than what we would have offered...and they didn't even dump that much salary! They got rid of J-Rich and Duhon...what about Turk? What about Q-Rich? What about Big Baby?

Did they end up getting that TE from Denver? Even if they did, what am I missing here? I'm still seeing a garbage package, and one that is clearly worse than what we were offering. Can anyone explain what a possible reason for taking this deal over ours was?

[therealbig3]

Oh and nobody can ever complain that we were trying to get Howard for garbage...LA made out like absolute bandits. Bynum, filler, and garbage picks for Dwight, a solid backup PG, AND Earl Clark???

So basically, they didn't even trade Bynum for Dwight straight up...they traded him for Dwight PLUS other assets.

The rich getting richer.

[The Hypnotoad]

And the thing is, look we all knew Bynum was a better trade asset than Lopez. But the fact that the Magic didn't even get Bynum, just completely makes this trade a mystery. And the Magic didn't even get the player that Bynum was essentially traded for (Iggy). So its just baffeling, i'm shocked really.

[therealbig3]

No, I can understand not even wanting Bynum or Iggy, because they want to clear space.

It seems that the goals of the Magic were to clear cap space, get draft picks, and acquire young talent. They did clear cap space, and they did get draft picks, but they did not acquire young talent. And the cap space they acquired was minimal, considering Afflalo's and Harrington's contracts, and the draft picks they got were garbage.

They would have had more cap space, better picks, and MUCH better young talent (I'd take Lopez from a talent perspective by himself over everyone that the Magic acquired) if they went with the Nets offer.

But even then, the Nets offer wasn't even the best offer (not even close)...it was still clearly better than what the Magic got here. If the Houston offer was legit, Hennigan should be legally declared mentally incompetent.

[The Hypnotoad]

I also hate how everyone overlooks the fact that Lopez was actually willing to sign a long contract with the Magic. They had a 7 foot 20 ppg player WILLING to play there while everyone else they wanted were unwilling to commit to an extension, and they spit in Lopez's face. Ridiculous.

[LOUiS-D]

Fken Lakers. Anyone but them. GOD!!!

I can name 28 teams not including the Nets that I would have preferred to see Dwight Howard play for.