Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV "Re-Building" Edition)

[bigmoe1952]

The Houston deal was so much better. We keep LA out of it, get back a lot of young talent, high draft picks and cap space. Yeah they wouldn't take JRich etc, but some would have eventually. Seriously. How could you ship Howard to LA and NOT get Bynum in the deal? Worst trade ever. I'm not one hoping players get hurt, but I sincerely hope Howard's back never fully heals.

You don't even know what the Houston deal was. If it was better Rob would have taken it.

Did you ever consider that maybe the deal with Houston was better earlier and Houston lowered their offer because of Howards statements and antics? I still think getting a couple of Houston's rookies and Totonto's draft pick and another lottery pick was still better than this deal. Even WiTHOUT cap relief. And it is pretty certain Houston would have given that. Apparently they would not give the entire package. But everything else except cap relief is still better then this garbage. And I am sure most of you have seen this but here is some info about the "boy wonder" whom some of you still trust in. And I have no reason not to believe it's true after the Nelson signing and this latest catastrophe perpetrated by these incompetent boobs. I have no reason to doubt the story below.

Rob Hennigan spent four years with the Spurs, beginning as an intern and working his way up to become the team's director of basketball operations.
Hennigan left the Spurs to join Sam Presti in Oklahoma City, where he spent two seasons as the Thunder’s assistant general manager/player personnel.
"Hennigan didn’t have the same stature in San Antonio," writes Buck Harvey. "When he left to join Presti, the Spurs thought he probably needed to get out and try something else."
Presti's top assistant was Troy Weaver, who reportedly didn't interview as well with the Magic as Hennigan.
ViaBuck Harvey/San Antonio Express-News

Looks like the Magic have been conned yet again. A lot of you guys really respect the Spurs and their organization (and I do, too). It sounds like they were ready to fire Hennigan and send him off to be a used car salesman when he decided to leave and go to OKC. I guess if you interview well with the Magic, that's all it takes to land an important job. And obviously a good interview does not guarantee good results!

Sorry, but that's just more emo talk, which is ok, but I gotta step in here sometimes.

1) Henny is not Presti. That's Ok, so sorry he's not a top 1-3 exec in the whole league. So sorry Henny might be an amazing gm but a distant 3rd or 4th to Presti out of 30 teams of execs.
2) Presti played a huge part in BOS's title. He traded prime all stars Allen and Lewis for a bag of chips, not unlike Dwight trade when looking with short term glasses on.
3) Henny stayed in SAS 1-2 years after Presti left. I forgot how much time exactly because Im too lazy right now to check. Also, you have the head man of the OKC tree, Presti, complimenting Henny directly to GM, and the fact that Henny spent yet another 4 years in OKC under Presti. And now we have the suspicious timing of this first past criticism of Hennigan here. Pop/Buford also compliment the style Hennigan/Magic is going for in planning the team and its culture.
4) Hennigan went from intern to director of player personnel in just 4 short years in SAS. This is explained by one of two ways, Hennigan is a bright young man and at the very least a viable gm candidate, or Hennigan office politiked his way through very well in which case both the SAS and ORL are disparaged.[/quote]

Oh yeah? I have yet to see anything "bright" about Hennigan in the Nelson signing or this recent trade. Especially with what Houston had on the table. And I am NOT going to argue over what Houston was offering. It WAS better then the deal Hennigan ultimately did. I can see no real reason for this story to be a lie. If it was in the Houston paper or New York paper, maybe then it could legitimately be questioned. I do not see this writer as having an agenda against Hennigan. My nephew lives in S.A. and he told me he had heard the same thing about Hennigan when he was with the Spurs. This story seems to confirm it. If you choose not to believe it, that's fine. But if it is true,and I believe it very well could be, we could have a real problem. And no matter how some of you try to put lipstick on this pig of a trade, it's still a pig. OINK...OINK!

[Hotshot Hower]

I'll pay no attention to that Hennigan story. It was obvious things like that would come out - right now the popular opinion is to crap on this deal for the Magic, so sources will appear and disassociate themselves from it, however indirect their connection.

Maybe it ends up being the beginning of a horrible attempt at a rebuild, and maybe not. Right now, this is Hennigan getting us back to square-1 after the disastrous attempt end to the Dwight/Otis era. I know this board is obsessed with the "quick-fix", but we should judge him on how this team looks a year or two from now, not how it looks at the moment, and not on what faceless, nameless "sources" want to say to fit in with the majority and drive the controversy.

+1

The people who hate this trade are not obsessed with a quick fix.
It's the fact that the Magic couldn't get 1 lottery pick or 1 top ten rookie talent for the best big man of his generation.

Gerald Wallace gets traded for a lottery pick. Dwight doesn't.
Couple that with the fact that the cap relief wasn't near as great as we hoped...
And the Magic didn't even get an additional 2013 first round pick in the deal.

If we're all being honest. We all hoped for more. And here's the kicker...
There was no rush to pull this off on August 9th, two months before training camp.
It makes zero sense why the Magic had to settle for this now.

I get that we're all Magic fans and want to hope for the best and see this team succeed... that doesn't mean we have to lie to ourselves as to the quality of this trade.

A lot of you guys focus on what we didn't get in the trade, look at it from such a "literal" perspective.

If Dwight had more years left on his deal the complexity changes, the offers are better. I don't think you understand that. It's one thing to speculate, it's another to argue something you have absolutely no idea about (what Rockets were offering, etc).

In my mind, it's one or the other when it comes to trading someone of Dwight's magnitude who's literally forced his way out of Orlando, while being on the last year of his deal. I'm sure Henny had multiple scenarios when it came to actually acquiring a lotto pick or even a "star", but that's where his options become limited as he couldn't have BOTH. Make no mistake, "rumors" swirled that certain teams would take a chance on Dwight, rent him without assurances but in no way shape or form do we know what these teams were ACTUALLY offering.

Also, everyone is fixated on what "Star" we didn't get, what lotto pick we didn't get. As well as arguing that none of the star players (Iggy/Bynum) in the 4-way deal didn't come to Orlando.

Dwight's departure was inevitable. With that in mind, we could've let him walk and got ZERO in return. Though, we'd be stuck with the toxicity of deals as I mentioned above, crippled financially, and in a mediocre state with few options to turn it around, compete for the Larry O' Brien.

Anyhow, you can't look at it from "did we win or did we lose in trade, talent-wise?" Rather, the BIG picture, not the black and white. The deal we accepted gives us MANY more options now and down the road than a deal for Bynum (or Gasol) would. It gives us flexibility, not just with cap space but in our decision making (trades, draft, FA) as an organization. It's a process, it's about building and developing an identity and sustaining it. The goal for every NBA team is to win a championship, not be eliminated every year in the 1st round, drafting #16-20. With that, you need a mixture of components to achieve that.

That's why Hennigan's plan is to develop these nice prospects (Harkless, Vucevic, Eyenga, Nicholson, O'Quinn) while having good locker room guys/leaders in Jameer, Big Baby, Redick, Affalo. You need a mixture of both to be successful, hence the Spurs blueprint. Then, by the time 2013-2014 season rolls around these prospects are developed, have a role with team, and then Magic capitalize with cap room by signing a "STAR" to add to an already "solid" foundation. I'd like to call it "the cherry on top". That's a recipe for success. Don't put so much stock into these "un-protected" late 1st rounders, they're just assets to HELP facilitate a BIGGER trade down the road as we already have an abundance of youth to develop.

Hypothetically, do you think we could compete for a championship w/ Bynum (or Gasol) and current core? I mean, we already know what we have on our team (w/ exceptions of this year's picks and Ayon). With Miami in East and OKC in West, we don't even come close and Hennigan knows that. He's a realist, a visionary. That's why he took a different route, one that many aren't too fond of but that's because most people are quick to re-act, lack logic and critical thinking.

[CourtsideTV]

JJ will NOT be traded because he is the heart of the franchise. That is like getting rid of jeremy lin. Fans are only "loyal" because JJ is their hero.

[Bensational]

I'll pay no attention to that Hennigan story. It was obvious things like that would come out - right now the popular opinion is to crap on this deal for the Magic, so sources will appear and disassociate themselves from it, however indirect their connection.

Maybe it ends up being the beginning of a horrible attempt at a rebuild, and maybe not. Right now, this is Hennigan getting us back to square-1 after the disastrous attempt end to the Dwight/Otis era. I know this board is obsessed with the "quick-fix", but we should judge him on how this team looks a year or two from now, not how it looks at the moment, and not on what faceless, nameless "sources" want to say to fit in with the majority and drive the controversy.

the thing that stood out the most to me from that 'article' was that Weaver, the favoured assistant, didn't 'interview as well'. ever since Weisbrod, the Magic have oozed arrogance from their FO. an arrogance that suggests they don't like to be challenged by players, and they're above a player's input. Weis was like that, Otis is like that, and i get a similar, arrogant vibe from Hennigan.

i don't mean that as any kind of correlation between Hennigan's ability and that of Weis and Otis - i'll give him his fair chance. but i think the Magic's biggest problem is the attitude that stems from the owners, and that's present in the arrogance that's displayed by the people they opt to put in charge. i honestly don't think the Magic owners are equipped to handle star quality NBA players. they put guys in charge who are supposed to bring us these 'team' players, but they don't do their due diligence and surround our real talent with other real talent.

i just hope that Hennigan is able to have the same fortune as Oklahoma - landing a top 2-3 player in the NBA, along with 3 other top 5 draft picks, and have them win soon enough that they stay happy. otherwise, we could very well be looking at another disenchanted star player in 3-5 years that the Magic won't make an appropriate effort to accommodate.

[CourtsideTV]

if magic scrwe up again with a new talent we'll be looked as the unluckiest/worst managed franchise in league history lol

[Last Guardian]

The only one I am confident that has star potential is Nicholson. He has good height and great length for the PF position, is incredibly intelligent and very skilled.

[MitchellUK]

I'll pay no attention to that Hennigan story. It was obvious things like that would come out - right now the popular opinion is to crap on this deal for the Magic, so sources will appear and disassociate themselves from it, however indirect their connection.

Maybe it ends up being the beginning of a horrible attempt at a rebuild, and maybe not. Right now, this is Hennigan getting us back to square-1 after the disastrous attempt end to the Dwight/Otis era. I know this board is obsessed with the "quick-fix", but we should judge him on how this team looks a year or two from now, not how it looks at the moment, and not on what faceless, nameless "sources" want to say to fit in with the majority and drive the controversy.

the thing that stood out the most to me from that 'article' was that Weaver, the favoured assistant, didn't 'interview as well'. ever since Weisbrod, the Magic have oozed arrogance from their FO. an arrogance that suggests they don't like to be challenged by players, and they're above a player's input. Weis was like that, Otis is like that, and i get a similar, arrogant vibe from Hennigan.

i don't mean that as any kind of correlation between Hennigan's ability and that of Weis and Otis - i'll give him his fair chance. but i think the Magic's biggest problem is the attitude that stems from the owners, and that's present in the arrogance that's displayed by the people they opt to put in charge. i honestly don't think the Magic owners are equipped to handle star quality NBA players. they put guys in charge who are supposed to bring us these 'team' players, but they don't do their due diligence and surround our real talent with other real talent.

i just hope that Hennigan is able to have the same fortune as Oklahoma - landing a top 2-3 player in the NBA, along with 3 other top 5 draft picks, and have them win soon enough that they stay happy. otherwise, we could very well be looking at another disenchanted star player in 3-5 years that the Magic won't make an appropriate effort to accommodate.

I'll agree on Weisbrod and Otis - both of them had the old-school, "managers and coaches control the team, players play" kind of attitude. That could well be something that is desirable to the Devos family. Personally I don't mind that attitude on a basic level, but it no longer really has a place in some modern sports, basketball being at the forefront of that change. One player makes can make such a huge difference to the fortunes of a team, and it's become the norm that those players want more input.

I haven't personally gotten that vibe from Hennigan. It's been clear, ever since Otis basically said he didn't have to cater to Dwight and didn't really care what he thought, that Martins made a distinct effort to change the way they approached Howard, did his best to try and rebuild the relationship and involve Dwight. Unfortunately, it's also been clear that it was to late to repair the damage. Hennigan came in at the end of it all, and his MO was to knock things down and rebuild from the ground up. Right now he doesn't have anyone to cater to - we now have a roster filled with foot-soldiers.

The test will come a few years from now, if and when we land another premier player, whether it be through the draft, via trade or free agency.

[Last Guardian]

Looked up Vucevic measurements for the first time....wow. 6'11.75 in shoes, 7'4.5 wingspan, 9'4.5 standing reach. That is all extremely impressive for the center position. Seriously Henny is really going after length.

[Bensational]

I'll pay no attention to that Hennigan story. It was obvious things like that would come out - right now the popular opinion is to crap on this deal for the Magic, so sources will appear and disassociate themselves from it, however indirect their connection.

Maybe it ends up being the beginning of a horrible attempt at a rebuild, and maybe not. Right now, this is Hennigan getting us back to square-1 after the disastrous attempt end to the Dwight/Otis era. I know this board is obsessed with the "quick-fix", but we should judge him on how this team looks a year or two from now, not how it looks at the moment, and not on what faceless, nameless "sources" want to say to fit in with the majority and drive the controversy.

the thing that stood out the most to me from that 'article' was that Weaver, the favoured assistant, didn't 'interview as well'. ever since Weisbrod, the Magic have oozed arrogance from their FO. an arrogance that suggests they don't like to be challenged by players, and they're above a player's input. Weis was like that, Otis is like that, and i get a similar, arrogant vibe from Hennigan.

i don't mean that as any kind of correlation between Hennigan's ability and that of Weis and Otis - i'll give him his fair chance. but i think the Magic's biggest problem is the attitude that stems from the owners, and that's present in the arrogance that's displayed by the people they opt to put in charge. i honestly don't think the Magic owners are equipped to handle star quality NBA players. they put guys in charge who are supposed to bring us these 'team' players, but they don't do their due diligence and surround our real talent with other real talent.

i just hope that Hennigan is able to have the same fortune as Oklahoma - landing a top 2-3 player in the NBA, along with 3 other top 5 draft picks, and have them win soon enough that they stay happy. otherwise, we could very well be looking at another disenchanted star player in 3-5 years that the Magic won't make an appropriate effort to accommodate.

I'll agree on Weisbrod and Otis - both of them had the old-school, "managers and coaches control the team, players play" kind of attitude. That could well be something that is desirable to the Devos family. Personally I don't mind that attitude on a basic level, but it no longer really has a place in some modern sports, basketball being at the forefront of that change. One player makes can make such a huge difference to the fortunes of a team, and it's become the norm that those players want more input.

I haven't personally gotten that vibe from Hennigan. It's been clear, ever since Otis basically said he didn't have to cater to Dwight and didn't really care what he thought, that Martins made a distinct effort to change the way they approached Howard, did his best to try and rebuild the relationship and involve Dwight. Unfortunately, it's also been clear that it was to late to repair the damage. Hennigan came in at the end of it all, and his MO was to knock things down and rebuild from the ground up. Right now he doesn't have anyone to cater to - we now have a roster filled with foot-soldiers.

The test will come a few years from now, if and when we land another premier player, whether it be through the draft, via trade or free agency.

Hennigan seems to like high character, high intelligence guys, and that favours his ability to keep them around and keep them happy. i just hope that if a LeBron/Durant/Dwight level player comes along in the draft that might have primadonna tendencies, that we don't turn our noses up at him because we're too arrogant to cater to that attitude. we just saw the team pass up on Bynum (which i'm personally not that upset about) for what i suspect are those reasons. let's hope that the trend ends there.

[Nyce_1]

Report: Rob Hennigan Was Not Highly Regarded By Spurs

Rob Hennigan spent four years with the Spurs, beginning as an intern and working his way up to become the team's director of basketball operations.

Hennigan left the Spurs to join Sam Presti in Oklahoma City, where he spent two seasons as the Thunder’s assistant general manager/player personnel.

"Hennigan didn’t have the same stature in San Antonio," writes Buck Harvey. "When he left to join Presti, the Spurs thought he probably needed to get out and try something else."

Presti's top assistant was Troy Weaver, who reportedly didn't interview as well with the Magic as Hennigan.

Via Buck Harvey/San Antonio Express-News


Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... z23CnOKjCw

LOL

I wish I remember the article, but as soon as Hennigan was hired, I remember reading a article that Hennigan was the #4 guy in San Antonio, in their power hierarchy. RC -> Pop -> Presti -> Hennigan.

I'll try to find it.

[Deadcellz]

Guys guess what?





I'm happy with this trade

When rob hennigan says it was the best offer we had.........it was the best offer we had. Is it gutting that the team to benefit was the lakers? sure, but ah well you can't get everything your way.

This screws the Heat while we rebuild as well

P.S. Chris duhon is gone...........

[RickB-Orlando]

Looks like the Magic have been conned yet again. A lot of you guys really respect the Spurs and their organization (and I do, too). It sounds like they were ready to fire Hennigan and send him off to be a used car salesman when he decided to leave and go to OKC. I guess if you interview well with the Magic, that's all it takes to land an important job. And obviously a good interview does not guarantee good results!

It is so, so early in this guys tenure to make this sort of call. This deal, while not my first choice, is going to take at least two years and probably three before we see how good or bad it really was. In two to three years we will know (or begin to know) answers to the following:

- How do the young players acquired develop?
- What do we do with the cap space in 2014?
- What do the draft picks turn into?
- How healthy is Bynum?
- Does Dwight have chronic back issues?
- Does Iggy ever return to form?
- What other moves do we make after this deal?

Slamming Hennigan at this point is premature - in two years, we'll know. This is a long term deal, not a short term one.

[Nyce_1]

Imagine a core of Wiggins/Harkless/Nicholson.

We have to draft a PG or C in 2013 and REALLY tank hard for 2014 draft. To accomplish this, we'll be bad-to-mediocre this season, and Rob will spend the year building value in vets to get rid of them and molding our roster to unquestionably suck for the 13-14 season. Then we hopefully end up with a top pick and Wiggins lives up to the hype and goes pro.

[tiderulz]

JJ will NOT be traded because he is the heart of the franchise. That is like getting rid of jeremy lin. Fans are only "loyal" because JJ is their hero.

then the GM needs to be fired. IF JJ gets you a decent draft pick or good young prospect, he absolutely has to be moved. The team is imploding to rebuild and he is redundant now with Afflalo, who is better, in the fold.

[tiderulz]

The only one I am confident that has star potential is Nicholson. He has good height and great length for the PF position, is incredibly intelligent and very skilled.

sorry, but yes you are the only one. He hasnt shown anything yet to be "star" potential.

[MagicTownBaller]

if magic scrwe up again with a new talent we'll be looked as the unluckiest/worst managed franchise in league history lol

We won't screw up man. Have some confidence.

[RickB-Orlando]

The more i think about this trade, its not as bad as i thought yesterday IF we can flip harrington to another team for either a 1st rounder or another PG

Infact, this trade is alot like the one we were all hoping for from the rockets

The deal we were all hoping for was pretty much

Lamb/Dmo/1 other rookie/parsons/tor pick and have them take a couple bad contracts

well

Afflalo>Lamb
Vucevic is similar type of player as DMo and was actually drafted ahead of him last year, plus is a legit C whereas DMo is more of a big PF. Dont get me wrong, id much rather have Dmo, but Vucevic isnt a bad prospect
Harkless= Royce White or Terrence Jones, and actually fills a much bigger need than either of them as a slasher/athletic SF
Sure Parsons is a much better player and prospect than Eyenga, but eyenga is still very young and athletic and has potential

We didnt get that toronto pick, BUT we did get 3 1st and a 2nd, who knows, might get lucky with one of those

And we dumped the contracts of Jrich and Duhon that we all wanted

So sure it wasnt the home run that the rockets trade was that we imagined in our heads, but its a VERY similar type of trade. Really the only BIG differences to me are getting stuck with Harrington and Dmo>vucevic, but if we can trade Harrington its a pretty close trade

Plus, this trade almost guarentees that we will have a top 3 record for the next 2 years, and with the way Stern helps out teams that help out the big markets or get screwed by superstars, we just might get 2 straight #1 picks

Two questions:

What are you drinking?

Where can I get some?

Why? What am i wrong about? How is this deal that much different than the "DREAM" trade scenario everyone had of the rockets?

It's not. I think your analysis is pretty accurate and in the light of day, after the initial emotional shock, makes sense.

[ChildishGambino]

I'm liking Vuvecic or whatever even more now that i've taken a closer look.....Good size for a Center 7" 260.....Good footwork....Good wingspan 7"4 i believe....Has a reliable post game and counter moves....Keeps the ball high.....Nice touch on the jumper and he has range out to the 3pt line...He is slow-footed and he needs a lot of work Defensively but he was a rookie last year and he showed that he has a good base skillset he can build on....going into his second year i believe there is no where to go but up

[RickB-Orlando]

JJ will NOT be traded because he is the heart of the franchise. That is like getting rid of jeremy lin. Fans are only "loyal" because JJ is their hero.

then the GM needs to be fired. IF JJ gets you a decent draft pick or good young prospect, he absolutely has to be moved. The team is imploding to rebuild and he is redundant now with Afflalo, who is better, in the fold.

While I agree you probably trade JJ if it makes sense strategically, I'm not sure I would say he's redundant with Afflalo. He's been our sixth man for three years, best guy off the bench. Why can't he continue in that role?

Or maybe he winds up starting over Afflalo. We really don't know what the lineup will be. Time will tell.

[KingRobb02]

The best part of this deal that no one talks about is that by making the Lakers so good, we immediately send some other teams into tank mode with us. Last year, teams like the Grizzlies and Clippers thought they legitimately had better teams than the Lakers and could win the title. Now there is no way Donald Sterling continues to pay top dollar for that team. Just as an example, we could pull a Cleveland and agree use the TPE to absorb Deandre Jordan and Caron Butler's horrible deals for their 2014 pick or something.