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Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV "Re-Building" Edition)

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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1381 » by MagicStarwipe » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:40 pm

Hotshot Hower wrote:A lot of you guys focus on what we didn't get in the trade, look at it from such a "literal" perspective.

If Dwight had more years left on his deal the complexity changes, the offers are better. I don't think you understand that. It's one thing to speculate, it's another to argue something you have absolutely no idea about (what Rockets were offering, etc).

In my mind, it's one or the other when it comes to trading someone of Dwight's magnitude who's literally forced his way out of Orlando, while being on the last year of his deal. I'm sure Henny had multiple scenarios when it came to actually acquiring a lotto pick or even a "star", but that's where his options become limited as he couldn't have BOTH. Make no mistake, "rumors" swirled that certain teams would take a chance on Dwight, rent him without assurances but in no way shape or form do we know what these teams were ACTUALLY offering.

Also, everyone is fixated on what "Star" we didn't get, what lotto pick we didn't get. As well as arguing that none of the star players (Iggy/Bynum) in the 4-way deal didn't come to Orlando.

Dwight's departure was inevitable. With that in mind, we could've let him walk and got ZERO in return. Though, we'd be stuck with the toxicity of deals as I mentioned above, crippled financially, and in a mediocre state with few options to turn it around, compete for the Larry O' Brien.

Anyhow, you can't look at it from "did we win or did we lose in trade, talent-wise?" Rather, the BIG picture, not the black and white. The deal we accepted gives us MANY more options now and down the road than a deal for Bynum (or Gasol) would. It gives us flexibility, not just with cap space but in our decision making (trades, draft, FA) as an organization. It's a process, it's about building and developing an identity and sustaining it. The goal for every NBA team is to win a championship, not be eliminated every year in the 1st round, drafting #16-20. With that, you need a mixture of components to achieve that.

That's why Hennigan's plan is to develop these nice prospects (Harkless, Vucevic, Eyenga, Nicholson, O'Quinn) while having good locker room guys/leaders in Jameer, Big Baby, Redick, Affalo. You need a mixture of both to be successful, hence the Spurs blueprint. Then, by the time 2013-2014 season rolls around these prospects are developed, have a role with team, and then Magic capitalize with cap room by signing a "STAR" to add to an already "solid" foundation. I'd like to call it "the cherry on top". That's a recipe for success. Don't put so much stock into these "un-protected" late 1st rounders, they're just assets to HELP facilitate a BIGGER trade down the road as we already have an abundance of youth to develop.

Hypothetically, do you think we could compete for a championship w/ Bynum (or Gasol) and current core? I mean, we already know what we have on our team (w/ exceptions of this year's picks and Ayon). With Miami in East and OKC in West, we don't even come close and Hennigan knows that. He's a realist, a visionary. That's why he took a different route, one that many aren't too fond of but that's because most people are quick to re-act, lack logic and critical thinking.

Brilliant post. Deserves to be seen again.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1382 » by Orlando Tragic » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:57 pm

So, who thinks this team is as good as the one that faced Indy in the playoffs?
Basically Ryno is replaced with Ayon/Vucevic and JRich with Afflalo. The bench could arguably be better depending on who we pick up to backup Meer. I think this team could win 30-40 games, maybe even sneak in as an 8th seed which is not good for our draft hopes.
What do you guys think?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1383 » by Nyce_1 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:58 pm

"A league source told the Daily News that a stumbling block in negotiations was lingering animosity stemming from the Magic’s belief the Nets illegally contacted Howard in December without Orlando’s permission. The Nets denied they had met with Howard, and charges were never filed with the league."

In business, the companies that thrive long-term have a commitment to doing it the right way. You can skirt those tactics for a while, but eventually, the rot gets through your organization and your hubris takes its toll. And there’s something to be said for maintaining your pride. If the Magic legitimately felt that the Nets had tampered with their player, their best player, that’s a huge violation of NBA rules and of NBA managerial conduct. It’s one thing to tamper with your player, it’s another to then continually collude with that player’s camp to ruin all other leverage in regards to other deals and to constantly pressure the team into making the trade. And there’s a lot of evidence that that might have gone on. You can’t blame Howard’s people. It’s their job to fulfill their clients wishes. That’s what their responsibility is, not to the team. But to Howard, and to the Nets, as members of the NBA, there’s a way to conduct business and a way not to. So if Orlando decided it didn’t want to have someone steal their lunch money, then trade their backpack to get a third of that money back, I don’t see how you can blame them.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1384 » by AussieMagicFan » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:59 pm

Good to see some sense and intelligence return to the forum.

Understand the emotion got a lot of people, but some of the carry on was embarrassing.

Looking forward now. Cannot wait to see the next moves, then seeing the guys on the court. It's going to be exciting taking this journey with the new guys, guys that want to play for us.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1385 » by glove1989 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:09 pm

So looking forward, what player are you most excited in watching this year? Personally it is harkless. Being from PA and going to Pitt I saw a decent amount of him last year and I think he has the most potential out of the players on the roster.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1386 » by glennathan » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:10 pm

I remember getting a text message on Thursday from a good friend telling me that the magic were in a 4 team trade rumor for Dwight. He said some things that were reported on bleacher report and I thought this was just another rumor to pay no mind to. Then I start seeing ESPN talking about it and thinking "maybe we get something from this? Finally get closure to this nightmare.."

Well the trade happens and now a new nightmare of a scenario has arisen. One in which a lot of people criticize the magic harshly for doing the trade, mostly because of the lack of a "superstar" being delivered to Orlando.

Well, in my opinion, without knowing in concrete evidence or listening to the deals in person, I can only assume that the information Rob Hennigan told everyone in the press conference is true. Maybe this was the best deal available and maybe it was the best time to pull the trigger.

I have cheered for the Magic to do well ever since my family moved to Florida in 1990. I was nothing more than a casual fan until maybe 2007 and have really stepped up my knowledge of the game and the team I have cheered for these past years. The scenario in which the team was put under was not an easy one by any means.

This trade when announced, had me a little disappointed because of the lack of a big name in return. After taking some time to look everything over I am not nearly as disappointed as most seem to be. When Memphis traded Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, and 2 draft picks most thought "this is the worst trade ever, horrible thinking on the GM's part". Memphis in those 3 years has built through the draft, trades, and salary cap flexibility to become a good team. Not a championship team but a contender none the less.

Now Orlando is in the same situation. A very unhappy group surrounding the trade idea, sending the best big man this team has had for Afflalo, a prospect in Harkless, and some draft picks (with other pieces included). I think this will be a similar scenario. May take 2-3 years like it did with Memphis and may have to take a risk on a Zach Randolph type of player but in the end it will all work out.

I think the true fans of this team should support the team now more that ever to help these young players like Harkless, Nicholson, O'Quinn, & Vucevic get better and form a hell of a tandem that will grow into a formidable team. If you don't want to support this team then don't let the door hit you on the way out. No one is going to convince me to cheer for another team and I am going to still be a proud Magic fan.

End of my rant but just wanted to get my point across.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1387 » by ChildishGambino » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:11 pm

People where just letting their emotions out....i think they are entitled to that because of what Dwight put us through....but people just need to look at the Big Picture....we are in a real flexible position.....it's not about defending the trade or what not....if you just look at it we are in a position to make moves and go so many different ways....for the first time in a while we actually have options and a way out from Otis's mess in almost one fell swoop......Until we know FOR SURE what the other deals was we can't just assume that Hennigan didn't make the best deal just because a reporter says something to that affect because at the end of the day they are not in the room making the deals so what they hear is most likely hearsay......

Just like Hotshot said we are at the starting blocks of that recipe for success....we just have to be patient and trust that the guys we have will get it right.....it's a leap of faith but it's up to you whether or not to take it.....i'm going to be here during the good times and the bad.....
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1388 » by bigmoe1952 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:12 pm

CourtsideTV wrote:if magic scrwe up again with a new talent we'll be looked as the unluckiest/worst managed franchise in league history lol



Yeah. Like no other teams have problems with narcissistic malcontent players. Spend the money...and they will come.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1389 » by Last Guardian » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:15 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Last Guardian wrote:The only one I am confident that has star potential is Nicholson. He has good height and great length for the PF position, is incredibly intelligent and very skilled.


sorry, but yes you are the only one. He hasnt shown anything yet to be "star" potential.



Sorry, but I didn't ask if I was the only one. And if I did, I wouldn't be the only one so you fail again.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1390 » by glennathan » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:15 pm

glove1989 wrote:So looking forward, what player are you most excited in watching this year? Personally it is harkless. Being from PA and going to Pitt I saw a decent amount of him last year and I think he has the most potential out of the players on the roster.


Personally looking forward to seeing Nicholson develop. Just was amazed at the excitement of his reaction to being drafted by Orlando. Would be nice if Harkless, Nicholson, and O'Quinn could develop over the years together and do well.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1391 » by Nyce_1 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:19 pm

glove1989 wrote:So looking forward, what player are you most excited in watching this year? Personally it is harkless. Being from PA and going to Pitt I saw a decent amount of him last year and I think he has the most potential out of the players on the roster.

I'm excited to see Harkless & Vucevic. I'm also excited to see what we flip Al, Turk, & Q for.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1392 » by BelgianMagic » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:23 pm

Lotta people, including a lot of reporters, are only looking at who got traded for who.

If you're only looking at that, this trade sucks. It only starts to make sense if you look at what happened the last couple of months and what will happen the next 2-3 years.

Rob's goal wasn't to stay competitive, cause there was no offer out there that would make us a contender again. So we had 2 options, either be worse than we were and get Bynum and be mediocre for years to come, or just completely rebuild.

This trade was a trade for the future, not for the present. And Hennigan absolutely doesn't deserve some of the heat he's been getting since yesterday.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1393 » by Darth Magic » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:28 pm

AussieMagicFan wrote:Good to see some sense and intelligence return to the forum.

Understand the emotion got a lot of people, but some of the carry on was embarrassing.

Looking forward now. Cannot wait to see the next moves, then seeing the guys on the court. It's going to be exciting taking this journey with the new guys, guys that want to play for us.


Same here. This was not the trade i wanted, but it has all the elements of a good trade. Cap space+Picks+young Players. The problem is most wanted better young players and better picks. Specifically, Houstons young players and Houstons picks. What amazes me that very few analysts understands what the Magic are trying to do. I keep hearing talk that we should have gotten Pau, and Iggy or Bynum so we could be competitive. Former Raptors coach Sam Mitchell a few months ago was the only one who seemed to get it. He said the worst thing you can be in the NBA is average/mediocre. You should either be great, or horrible. Everything else is basketball purgatory.

Why should we build around a guy like Bynum who clearly has an attitude problem, has a history of knee problems and is about to get a max deal? Kobe, Pau and Bynum couldn't even make it back to the NBA finals. Why should we build around him as our best player? This talk of getting Pau and Iggy is about the dumbest suggestion i've heard. How the hell are Pau and Iggy going to beat Miami, Chicago, Boston, Nets, Knicks or even Indy? How can you get paid to analyze sports and even suggest that? Mediocrity? No thanks.

Finally. Please don't buy into the hate and ridicule being leveled against our team and administration. the Magic have made great hires. Peopel who come highly recpmmended by the NBA's best. The media's smear campaign is in full swing and #Weallwegot. Our only way to show them up is to rally as a franchise and have prolonged success going forward. I suspect that by the summer of training camp of 2014 we will be in the hunt for a top spot in the east. Keep the faith.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1394 » by MitchellUK » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:31 pm

The Magic squad this year... there is still some talent in Orlando. They are not the Bobcats or even the Hornets... I think you'll see the Magic put the veterans on the floor for the first part of the season... let them develop some trade value and they are likely traded off at the deadline to clear cap and gain more draft assets or young guys on rookie deals.

The Magic likely win some games for the first part of the season and dismantle the team at the deadline... now if they become the Heart & Hustle 2012 squad and it looks like they could make noise, maybe they are kept together, but whats more likely is the veterans on the team will be auditioning for their playoff team and moved at the deadline.


Kyler just posted that. Very similar to what I've been thinking. I reckon guys like Harrington, Hedo and Q will probably see a lot more minutes than we would expect them to during November and December. Then as we get towards the ASG and the deadline, I wouldn't be surprised to see them flipped to teams in the playoff hunt who have holes at their respective positions for more draft picks or younger players who can't crack the rotation.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1395 » by trebone » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:34 pm

I was a big fan of Harkless coming here, I just hope Hedo does not start and just sits the bench until we can cut him for salary savings. I like the idea someone proposed of trying to flip Al Harrington for Kendall Marshall, not sure if Phoenix need him with Beasley/Frye there
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1396 » by DMack78 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:44 pm

With all the PF/C we have now we can afford to play hack-a-howard now like the rest of the league.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1397 » by MitchellUK » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:46 pm

DMack78 wrote:With all the PF/C we have now we can afford to play hack-a-howard now like the rest of the league.


I think a lot of people would like to see us Batum-a-Howard.....
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1398 » by cb1115 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:47 pm

I'm slowly warming up to this trade.

Mostly because I'm adjusting to the fact that we're going to be awful for a few years.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1399 » by SnuggLes__ » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:06 pm

Have to warm up to the trade if you want to continue living a normal life as a magic fan lolol.... but in the end it was still a horrible move.. I just wish I could understand.. Like were the offers we heard of before non existent? Does Rob H. have something up his sleeve? (like a trap card?) Did he really do his "homework"? It looks like we're set for the slowest rebuild in the history of time.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV 

Post#1400 » by FRESHsince1983 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:07 pm

I'm anxious to see Harkless, Nicholson, Vucevic, and O'Quinn develop next to BBD, Afflalo and the other veterans Henny surrounds them with. Real talk!

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