Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLV "Re-Building" Edition)

[OrlandoMajinBuu]

I'm watching some TV.
Watching, Travel Channel: Ghost Adventures.

Off for today, goodnite y'all! bye.

[ADRajX]

I would definitely take a chance on Greg Oden... you never know... he's still young... he should come cheap at this point in his career.

[SOUL]

Can Oden even walk yet?

[OrlandO]

Didn't realize Oden went on a drniking binge while in Portland...

"If you know anything about guys in the Air Force," Greg explained, "it's that they drink a ton. My cousin got wrapped up in the NBA lifestyle and threw parties at my house all the time. So I got wrapped up in it too. When I played well, I'd drink to celebrate. And when I played poorly, I'd drink to forget. That second year in Portland I pretty much became an alcoholic."

And apparently he originally planned to take the 2012-13 season off, but changed his mind... Should a player with severe durability issues be rushing a comeback?

[bigmoe1952]

From Part XLV


Deezy wrote:
This trade put us in a worse cap situation, not better. How do people still not understand that concept?

Idunkonyou2 wrote:
They're in denial.

Also the people still upset over the trade are the true Magic fans IMO. The people rolling their eyes as if this is no big deal are the ones who need to get the f**k off the board.

I would give this a +10 if possible. Well said, Idunk. Short and sweet.

[bigdogdylan5]

From Part XLV


Deezy wrote:
This trade put us in a worse cap situation, not better. How do people still not understand that concept?

Idunkonyou2 wrote:
They're in denial.

Also the people still upset over the trade are the true Magic fans IMO. The people rolling their eyes as if this is no big deal are the ones who need to get the f**k off the board.

I would give this a +10 if possible. Well said, Idunk. Short and sweet.

Wow i dont even know where to begin. You are very ignorant good sir the people who are true fans are the ones standing here believeing that hennigan built this trade for a purpose and that he has a plan and are optimistic. Not being all butt hurt about it. And i only wish that when Henny uses this flexibilty to rebuild this team that u would be accountable for your rude comments. That when Harkless develops and when he moves Harrington and Affalo at their peak value for younger talent. Alot of us ate crow after he drafted Nicholson and alot of you will be doing the same. Because if you remember the Pau Gasol trade which everyone thought was high way robbery ended up not being so bad for Memphis so shut your mouth stop bitching grow up and root on and support our young rookies as they develop. you sir are not acting like a true fan

[TDJacksonville]

This would actually make a good separate thread imo - if something similar hasn't already been made.

I don't think JOCK mentioned his plans yet.
Nelson is a lock to start.
I see JJ backing up Afflalo. He may not make it to the end of the season as an expiring.
I'm hoping Turk comes off the bench as another sixth man type player. Harkless is probably not ready to start though... even on a crappy team. I wonder if Henny likes Harper and wants to see if he's worth re-signing? Eyenga may be too raw to get meaningful minutes. I hope QRich doesn't see the court again.
PF and Center positions will be tricky for the first half of the season... I expect Harrington to be dealt or bought out over the next year. If it's the former, we'll need to showcase him with lots of minutes to get the most value for him. I think you have to start Big Baby and Harrington... Then let Nicholson earn a starting spot instead of just gifting it to him. O'Quinn seems like a solid backup. And then you have Vučević and Ayon... Ugh, so many 4s and 5s. This board is going to go crazy with debates on who should get burn.

according to NBA 2k12 with Update 26 on it our lineup should be:

PG: Nelson
SG: Affalo
SF: Turk(more highly rated than Hark)
PF: Nicholson/Harrington(same player rating)
C: Davis(best player at PF and center and seemed to do well when playing center last year)

That seems like a plausible rotation. Starting Davis at the C instead of PF would make it easier to bring Nicholson into the starting lineup without controversy. I didn't realize Harrington didn't start at all last season. Faried took the spot right away as soon as Nene was gone. I would start Harrington for a few games until Nicholson is settled and then swap them. Who gets backup minutes between O'Quinn, Vucevic and Ayon while Harrington is around? I'd say Ayon is out of the running.

well according to NBA 2k12 Ayon is the best out of the 3 u mentioned followed by O'quinn than Vucevic. i think it would depend on matchups. i would love to see a Lineup of Nicholson and Vucevic on the court as i played with it against the thunder who has Scola instead of Ibaka and Nicholson definitely is a Nice jump shooter and suprisingly good at rebounding and blocking shots then scola started going beast. Nicholson was the Player of the game with 17 points 10 boards and 5 assists with 1 block in 34 minutes in a 22 point win . suprisingly my PG was the leading rebounder with 11 boards and 6 assists and 14 points

[bigmoe1952]

From Part XLV


Deezy wrote:
This trade put us in a worse cap situation, not better. How do people still not understand that concept?

Idunkonyou2 wrote:
They're in denial.

Also the people still upset over the trade are the true Magic fans IMO. The people rolling their eyes as if this is no big deal are the ones who need to get the f**k off the board.

I would give this a +10 if possible. Well said, Idunk. Short and sweet.

Wow i dont even know where to begin. You are very ignorant good sir the people who are true fans are the ones standing here believeing that hennigan built this trade for a purpose and that he has a plan and are optimistic. Not being all butt hurt about it. And i only wish that when Henny uses this flexibilty to rebuild this team that u would be accountable for your rude comments. That when Harkless develops and when he moves Harrington and Affalo at their peak value for younger talent. Alot of us ate crow after he drafted Nicholson and alot of you will be doing the same. Because if you remember the Pau Gasol trade which everyone thought was high way robbery ended up not being so bad for Memphis so shut your mouth stop bitching grow up and root on and support our young rookies as they develop. you sir are not acting like a true fan

After reading your post you have got the nerve to use the word "ignorant" in describing our thoughts? You have to be a teenager and still wet behind the ears to write the kind of drivel that you have pecked out. And it is true in your post where you say, "I don't know where to begin." You should have ended it before it began. Your post is a mindless rant of pure sophistry. I can only assume your mommy and daddy have no idea you are up this late with no adult supervision.

And btw, please let me know when Harrington is "at his peak." And a lot of draftees have done well in Summer League games and fell flat on their face when playing regular NBA games. I hope that is not the case with Nicholson. But NOBODY needs to eat crow over that pick yet because we still don't know. And just for the record, I was not one who criticized the Nicholson pick.

Now go tuck yourself into beddy-by and go seepy!

[bigdogdylan5]

From Part XLV


Deezy wrote:
This trade put us in a worse cap situation, not better. How do people still not understand that concept?

Idunkonyou2 wrote:
They're in denial.

Also the people still upset over the trade are the true Magic fans IMO. The people rolling their eyes as if this is no big deal are the ones who need to get the f**k off the board.

I would give this a +10 if possible. Well said, Idunk. Short and sweet.

Wow i dont even know where to begin. You are very ignorant good sir the people who are true fans are the ones standing here believeing that hennigan built this trade for a purpose and that he has a plan and are optimistic. Not being all butt hurt about it. And i only wish that when Henny uses this flexibilty to rebuild this team that u would be accountable for your rude comments. That when Harkless develops and when he moves Harrington and Affalo at their peak value for younger talent. Alot of us ate crow after he drafted Nicholson and alot of you will be doing the same. Because if you remember the Pau Gasol trade which everyone thought was high way robbery ended up not being so bad for Memphis so shut your mouth stop bitching grow up and root on and support our young rookies as they develop. you sir are not acting like a true fan

After reading your post you have got the nerve to use the word "ignorant" in describing our thoughts? You have to be a teenager and still wet behind the ears to write the kind of drivel that you have pecked out. And it is true in your post where you say, "I don't know where to begin." You should have ended it before it began. Your post is a mindless rant of pure sophistry. I can only assume your mommy and daddy have no idea you are up this late with no adult supervision.

And btw, please let me know when Harrington is "at his peak." And a lot of draftees have done well in Summer League games and fell flat on their face when playing regular NBA games. I hope that is not the case with Nicholson. But NOBODY needs to eat crow over that pick yet because we still don't know. And just for the record, I was not one who criticized the Nicholson pick.

Now go tuck yourself into beddy-by and go seepy!

Lol when u got nothing to come back with u pull **** like calling me a child nice. For your info not like it matters but i am an electrical engineering student at Ohio State and i have been following the magic since my father first took me to a game when i was nine years old and i will always support this franchise because i love it. I am sorry if you are so mad but let me give you a little lesson if you support a team you support not get up at 2 in the morning and bitch like a little child so maybe u should grow up and learn what it means to be a REAL fan.

[The Real Dalic]

People need to relax with the "true Magic fans hate/like the trade". Those of us that are sticking around, love or hate the trade, are the true Magic fans IMO.

Just because you disagree with someone doesn't make them less of a fan than you.

[Rick Rolled]

People need to relax with the "true Magic fans hate/like the trade". Those of us that are sticking around, love or hate the trade, are the true Magic fans IMO.

Just because you disagree with someone doesn't make them less of a fan than you.

Thank you sir. I agree 100%. It's juvenile and petty. If we keep this up, the terrorists win.

[bigdogdylan5]

People need to relax with the "true Magic fans hate/like the trade". Those of us that are sticking around, love or hate the trade, are the true Magic fans IMO.

Just because you disagree with someone doesn't make them less of a fan than you.

Thank you sir. I agree 100%

I am really sorry i got roped in to this but it just sent me over the edge that this guy called people who are supporting this team and not bitching about it as not real fans and to get off this board

[OrlandO]

[Rick Rolled]

People need to relax with the "true Magic fans hate/like the trade". Those of us that are sticking around, love or hate the trade, are the true Magic fans IMO.

Just because you disagree with someone doesn't make them less of a fan than you.

Thank you sir. I agree 100%

I am really sorry i got roped in to this but it just sent me over the edge that this guy called people who are supporting this team and not bitching about it as not real fans and to get off this board

I understand. I'm sick of people playing the real fan card. It happens every time we make a major move. I would never demand that someone share my opinion, and I definitely wouldn't belittle them for disagreeing with me.... I'm fine with people arguing with me, that's what message boards are for, but this real fan stuff is juvenile garbage.

[MitchellUK]

People need to relax with the "true Magic fans hate/like the trade". Those of us that are sticking around, love or hate the trade, are the true Magic fans IMO.

Just because you disagree with someone doesn't make them less of a fan than you.

I was just going to say this. If people are still here, talking about the team, then I imagine they are still true fans. (And I think we should set up a collaborative effort with the mods on the Laker board to cross reference the IP addresses of any new members over there with the members on the Magic board)

The trade, on a basic level, sucks donkey balls. The fact that the NBA fosters a culture that allows players to manoeuvre themselves to their preferred destinations whilst their current employers get screwed is appalling. Watching over the last few months as Dwight and his camp destroyed his value at every turn has been torturous.

However, for me at least, the reason I haven't been outraged over it is because I knew it was going to suck and had prepared myself appropriately. There was never going to be a scenario where we got anything close to a good deal. There's talk of "delusion" on this board, but I think it goes both ways. People who think the deal was good are lying to themselves. But the people who are failing to to accept that there wasn't ever going to be a fair deal on offer are equally so. It's the situation that Otis Smith, with the mess he made of our roster and his apparently dismissive attitude towards Howard, Dwight's camp, with their constant leaks killing his value, etc., and the NBA, who seem to foster and thrive off such stories, have created, and the Orlando Magic are the ones who ended up suffering the consequences. It's infuriating that it came to what it did, but when Dwight listed his choices as three teams who overall had little in the way of trade assets, there was no way we were going to come out if this with anything close to value.

We don't have to laud this as some master stroke, because our FO was never going to be in a position to make such a move. Arron Afflalo, Maurice Harkless and Nikola Vucevic and what is likely to be three mid-first rounders as a core of a deal for the best big man in the game isn't a fair deal, isn't a good deal. But there are positives.

Harkless and Vucevic aren't worth Dwight Howard, but they look like decent prospects. Eyenga, meh. He's 23 and he's been in the league for two years whilst doing very little. Maybe he's more promising than he seems, but I don't see much in him.

Afflalo is paid more than J-Rich and his contract is a year longer, which I know has been a bone of contention for some people, but I'm much less concerned about that - while in terms of simple numbers our cap figure is technically worse if you swap the two, it's vastly improved when you consider that Afflalo can actually play up to his deal and is the kind of guy who would be coveted by other teams in future trades. Paying $7.75m a year for 4 years for a 26-year-old who is a terrific defender and scores efficiently is much better than paying $6m a year for 3 years for a 31-year-old who can't defend and has become the very definition of streaky on offense as his athleticism has started to decline. Afflalo will be a terrific influence on our younger players, and if it comes to a trade, we couldn't give J-Rich away previously - teams will be much more interested in Arron Afflalo.

McRoberts....meh. Clearly a throw-in, but he's 25, mobile and hard working. He's the sort of player that we can flip for a future late-first or second rounder around the deadline when the contending teams need a cheap option to bolster their front-court depth.

Harrington is the only one for whom I struggle to find any justification his inclusion. 14 and 6 isn't terrible production for a guy on 6.8m next year, but we have a glut of young front court players as well as BBD. I can only assume that the plan is to flip him elsewhere, either to a team looking to save a little money by taking advantage of his partially guaranteed deal in 2013/14 and 2014/15, or if he can remain productive, to a team that needs a little frontcourt scoring.

The picks don't project to be great, but they are still assets we didn't have before. They're the type of thing we can use as sweeteners in future trades. They're the kind of picks we can use to select 18-year-olds from Spain or Lithuania who we can leave to develop overseas for a couple of years. I feel like Otis Smith has soured our fanbase on the potential value of later first round picks - at the end of the day, if you invest in scouting and player development, which is something Hennigan is preaching and which his previous teams have a history of doing, you can find productive, even great players later in the draft.

All in all, no, the trade wasn't fair, and the trade wasn't good. But this transaction was the first sledgehammer blow to the rotting house that Otis built, and given the corner our franchise had been backed into, it could have been a lot, lot worse. Look at it this way - if Otis had had his way, we would currently be paying Brook Lopez a max contract to keep us treading water in the middle of the pack.

[BelgianMagic]

The trade was awful for the Magic. End of story. People who are STILL defending what the Magic did seriously need to get out of their denial comma and come down to reality

They're in denial.

Also the people still upset over the trade are the true Magic fans IMO. The people rolling their eyes as if this is no big deal are the ones who need to get the f**k off the board.

Idunk, I know you hate this trade, but I don't think it's right that you keep forcing your idea to everyone. You have your opinion about it, that's fine, but let people have their own opinion without calling them out or tell them to "get the f*ck off the board"

Nobody loves the trade, but I think a lot of people are only looking at who got traded for who. In that case, this trade sucks. When you keep in mind Dwight was probably only worth half of what he's really worth after him&Fegan's "I only want Brooklyn/LA", it makes a little more sense, that's my opinion.

But please don't see this as a personal attack, that's absolutely not my intention. Your posts show how passionate you are about your team, and that's a good thing.

[arsenal6106]

According to a poster on the Cavs forum, they ended up not using their 14.5 mil TPE.

[ChildishGambino]

wow man...what did i just read? the real fans are the guys bitching about trade and whoever is not should get off the board? one of the most idiotic statements i've ever read.....just to make it clear i'm not calling said poster an idiot....just what was said was idiotic....it really was....damn that was stupid....almost to the point of it being sarcastic....

[FFBlitzace]

I've been here nearly nine years and have over 27000 posts, but I'm not a true fan. It's just something I've learned to live with. Some guys have it and some don't. Like being good with women. Coincidentally, I don't have that either.

[Bensational]

People need to relax with the "true Magic fans hate/like the trade". Those of us that are sticking around, love or hate the trade, are the true Magic fans IMO.

Just because you disagree with someone doesn't make them less of a fan than you.

Thank you sir. I agree 100%. It's juvenile and petty. If we keep this up, the terrorists win.

+1

there's room for both sides of the argument within the fan base.