Summer 2012 Free Agents Thread - Part III

[nate33]

Continued from here:

[Nivek]

Yes. And they didn't have to do nothing. There was enough cap room to sign a $5M free agent this summer (say, Danny Green) and STILL have max cap room next year for Harden or Ibaka.

This is what is so frustrating to me. It looked to me like EG had laid everything out perfectly. He traded for one stud veteran big man in Nene to turn the franchise around and raise us to respectability, while maintaining enough youth and cap room to make a move down the road. We even had enough cap room to add one respectable veteran wing like Rush or Green to further solidify our young core. Take the team of the last 25 games last year, add Beal and Green and improvement from Wall, Vesely and Seraphin, and I think it's a 34-40 win team with a ton of flexibility. Instead, we're a 36-42 win team with no flexibility.

Next summer, with the cap room and youth at our disposal, we could have gone after Harden, and if that failed, we could have engineered a sign and trade for someone like Howard or Bynum by offering our cap room plus some combination of our surplus young bigs (Vesely, Booker, Seraphin). And even if none of that panned out, I still think we'd better by having Seraphin, Booker and Vesely get more minutes and experience rather than sitting behind Okafor.

From the previous thread, this one is worth keeping around. Exactly right on every point. The offseason I liked would have added a couple players, but still would have left the Wizards with a ton of cap room in 2013.

Had the Wiz done what you suggested, they could have picked up that respectable wing and then also gone shopping in amnesty for a one-year guy like Brand to give them some veteran security in the frontcourt. And maybe squeak into the playoffs.

[closg00]

Some on this board loved the "golatas" Houston GM Morey showed when he let talent like Lowry and Dragic walk, and cleared cap room in order to go after D. Howard--who said all along that he wouldn't resign with the Rockets if they traded for him. How'd that turn out? Well, it turned out with Houston overpaying for free agents Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik.

In other words, Morey was left holding his "golatas."

“It’s better to have tried and failed than to live life wondering what would’ve happened if I had tried” – Alfred Lord Tennyson

[hands11]

Yes. And they didn't have to do nothing. There was enough cap room to sign a $5M free agent this summer (say, Danny Green) and STILL have max cap room next year for Harden or Ibaka.

This is what is so frustrating to me. It looked to me like EG had laid everything out perfectly. He traded for one stud veteran big man in Nene to turn the franchise around and raise us to respectability, while maintaining enough youth and cap room to make a move down the road. We even had enough cap room to add one respectable veteran wing like Rush or Green to further solidify our young core. Take the team of the last 25 games last year, add Beal and Green and improvement from Wall, Vesely and Seraphin, and I think it's a 34-40 win team with a ton of flexibility. Instead, we're a 36-42 win team with no flexibility.

Next summer, with the cap room and youth at our disposal, we could have gone after Harden, and if that failed, we could have engineered a sign and trade for someone like Howard or Bynum by offering our cap room plus some combination of our surplus young bigs (Vesely, Booker, Seraphin). And even if none of that panned out, I still think we'd better by having Seraphin, Booker and Vesely get more minutes and experience rather than sitting behind Okafor.

From the previous thread, this one is worth keeping around. Exactly right on every point. The offseason I liked would have added a couple players, but still would have left the Wizards with a ton of cap room in 2013.

Had the Wiz done what you suggested, they could have picked up that respectable wing and then also gone shopping in amnesty for a one-year guy like Brand to give them some veteran security in the frontcourt. And maybe squeak into the playoffs.

Then blame Ted. He is the one that didnt want to spend 12M to make Lewis go away so what you are talking about could happen. And since that is the case, you have a bigger problem ahead. Ted isn't going anywhere any time soon.

[Kanyewest]

Yes. And they didn't have to do nothing. There was enough cap room to sign a $5M free agent this summer (say, Danny Green) and STILL have max cap room next year for Harden or Ibaka.

This is what is so frustrating to me. It looked to me like EG had laid everything out perfectly. He traded for one stud veteran big man in Nene to turn the franchise around and raise us to respectability, while maintaining enough youth and cap room to make a move down the road. We even had enough cap room to add one respectable veteran wing like Rush or Green to further solidify our young core. Take the team of the last 25 games last year, add Beal and Green and improvement from Wall, Vesely and Seraphin, and I think it's a 34-40 win team with a ton of flexibility. Instead, we're a 36-42 win team with no flexibility.

Next summer, with the cap room and youth at our disposal, we could have gone after Harden, and if that failed, we could have engineered a sign and trade for someone like Howard or Bynum by offering our cap room plus some combination of our surplus young bigs (Vesely, Booker, Seraphin). And even if none of that panned out, I still think we'd better by having Seraphin, Booker and Vesely get more minutes and experience rather than sitting behind Okafor.

From the previous thread, this one is worth keeping around. Exactly right on every point. The offseason I liked would have added a couple players, but still would have left the Wizards with a ton of cap room in 2013.

Had the Wiz done what you suggested, they could have picked up that respectable wing and then also gone shopping in amnesty for a one-year guy like Brand to give them some veteran security in the frontcourt. And maybe squeak into the playoffs.

Interesting. Although bringing in Harden may not have been realistic because the Wizards already have Beal.

[TGW]

Even if Houston tried to go big, and struck out, they'll still probably be better than the Wizards next season. They are a better ran organization by far.

[truwizfan4evr]

Even if Houston tried to go big, and struck out, they'll still probably be better than the Wizards next season. They are a better ran organization by far.

I actually think wizards will be better.

[closg00]

Even if Houston tried to go big, and struck out, they'll still probably be better than the Wizards next season. They are a better ran organization by far.

I actually think wizards will be better.

Houston was 34-32, the Wizards 20-46 last year. Houston is stocked with assets going forward, the Wizards, not so much. Houston has Golatas, the Wizards? The whimper puppies.

[nate33]

The Rockets dumped Lowry, Dragic, Lee, Buddinger, Scola and Dalembert and added only Lin, Asik and a bunch of rookies. They are way too young and inexperienced to be all that effective this year.

[closg00]

The Rockets dumped Lowry, Dragic, Lee, Buddinger, Scola and Dalembert and added only Lin, Asik and a bunch of rookies. They are way too young and inexperienced to be all that effective this year.

I took that their salary dump into account. This is how they compare to us this year.

PG: Lin/Livington > Wall/Price until proven otherwise
SG: Martin/Lamb > Crawford/ Beal
SF: Parsons/Budinger > Ariza/Singleton
PF: Patterson/White <Nene/Booker
C: Asik/Donatas < Okafor/Seraphin

Houston's Bench > Washington bench and they have assests + cap-room to make moves. Houston won't fare well in the West, but they can be players again in next-years FA.

[DCZards]

I'm taking Wall over Lin all day, every day. Lin couldn't guard my 12-year old nephew, much less guys like Westbrook, Paul, Parker and the others PGs he'll have to defend in the West. And, while Livingtston MAY be better than Price, it's close.

I'll take my chances with Crawford/Beal against Martin/Lamb.

The Zards frontline of Nene, Okafor, Booker and Seraphin would thump the Rockets.

Buddinger, who is probably the second or third best player on your list, closg, isn't even on the Rockets roster.

[nate33]

PG: Lin/Livington > Wall/Price until proven otherwise
SG: Martin/Lamb > Crawford/ Beal
SF: Parsons/Budinger > Ariza/Singleton
PF: Patterson/White <Nene/Booker
C: Asik/Donatas < Okafor/Seraphin

At PG, I agree with DCZards that Wall is better than Lin. Lin's numbers might look a tad better at first glace because of his higher TS%, but when you use offensive rating to factor turnovers, their numbers are much closer to each other. (Lin has an ORtg of 104, Wall's is 100.) Give Wall the same floor spacing that Lin got in New York (with Novak, Amare and Smith) and Wall's ORtg would be higher. Wall is also the better defender. Livingston is better than Price though, and that might be enough to make the matchup a wash.

Houston has the edge at SG by a fair amount

SF is pretty close. Parsons dunked on McGee last year, but let's not take that to mean he's some kind of stud player. Ariza has established himself as a legit starting SF in this league. Maybe not an above-average one, but a serviceable one. Parsons has yet to prove this.

The big difference is at PF. Nene blows away anybody Houston has. Nene is an all star caliber player. Patterson wouldn't rank in the top 25 among the league's PF's.

Washington has a fair edge at C too. Particularly at backup C with Seraphin over Donatas.

Basically, I see PG and SF as about a tie. Houston's advantage at SG is offset by our advantage at C. The clincher is our massive disparity at PF.

[Nivek]

I'm not all that interested in the comparison between Washington and Houston for this upcoming season. Houston has a ton of cap room, a bunch of young players on cheap contracts, and multiple first round picks. It's possible the Wizards will have the better record next year, but Morey has done a nice job positioning them for a rebuild.

[Ruzious]

I think Morey's got a ton of work to do if he's going to turn that terrible roster around. I'm inclined to go with DCZards analysis on this one. The backcourt could be good, but I think Martin's overrated by most, and the entire frontcourt is awful. None of their young players is someone to build around, imo. If they can find a team that really likes Martin, maybe Morey can turn it around with a good trade, but I think it's mainly a mess of low first round scraps. But they made the offseason interesting, and it'll continue to be interesting to see what they do.

[nate33]

I'm not all that interested in the comparison between Washington and Houston for this upcoming season. Houston has a ton of cap room, a bunch of young players on cheap contracts, and multiple first round picks. It's possible the Wizards will have the better record next year, but Morey has done a nice job positioning them for a rebuild.

Agreed. Though the key task in their rebuild is to execute at least one big consolidation trade (and/or free agency acquisition) where they get back a star caliber player. If they can't pull that off, they risk getting stuck in 45-win Purgatory and will have to systematically let players go as their rookie deals expire.

They may have made a tactical error by going after Lin in free agency. He's just good enough as a PG to get that team to play to its max potential and maybe win 35+ games, putting them out of contention for a top 3 pick. A BOYD trade for a crappy PG and a future pick might have been a better move. That team could easily tank and win less than 25 games if they had crappy PG play.

[Ruzious]

Yes. And they didn't have to do nothing. There was enough cap room to sign a $5M free agent this summer (say, Danny Green) and STILL have max cap room next year for Harden or Ibaka.

This is what is so frustrating to me. It looked to me like EG had laid everything out perfectly. He traded for one stud veteran big man in Nene to turn the franchise around and raise us to respectability, while maintaining enough youth and cap room to make a move down the road. We even had enough cap room to add one respectable veteran wing like Rush or Green to further solidify our young core. Take the team of the last 25 games last year, add Beal and Green and improvement from Wall, Vesely and Seraphin, and I think it's a 34-40 win team with a ton of flexibility. Instead, we're a 36-42 win team with no flexibility.

Next summer, with the cap room and youth at our disposal, we could have gone after Harden, and if that failed, we could have engineered a sign and trade for someone like Howard or Bynum by offering our cap room plus some combination of our surplus young bigs (Vesely, Booker, Seraphin). And even if none of that panned out, I still think we'd better by having Seraphin, Booker and Vesely get more minutes and experience rather than sitting behind Okafor.

From the previous thread, this one is worth keeping around. Exactly right on every point. The offseason I liked would have added a couple players, but still would have left the Wizards with a ton of cap room in 2013.

Had the Wiz done what you suggested, they could have picked up that respectable wing and then also gone shopping in amnesty for a one-year guy like Brand to give them some veteran security in the frontcourt. And maybe squeak into the playoffs.

+42 (Zaphon Beeblebrox)

[closg00]

For those tuning-in late, the Houston discussion was sparked by Zards post:

Some on this board loved the "golatas" Houston GM Morey showed when he let talent like Lowry and Dragic walk, and cleared cap room in order to go after D. Howard--who said all along that he wouldn't resign with the Rockets if they traded for him. How'd that turn out? Well, it turned out with Houston overpaying for free agents Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik.

In other words, Morey was left holding his "golatas."

I like Houstons young talent and agree that they are well-positioned for a rebuild.

RE: Nene, you have to big a big * next to his name because of his foot.

Houston also has the option of playing Donatas with Asik. Donatas is a good rebounder and he can step-out on you and hit the try. Their versatility could mitigate our interior strength somewhat.

I'd also like to see White and Seraphin battling in the post.

[TGW]

I'm not all that interested in the comparison between Washington and Houston for this upcoming season. Houston has a ton of cap room, a bunch of young players on cheap contracts, and multiple first round picks. It's possible the Wizards will have the better record next year, but Morey has done a nice job positioning them for a rebuild.

Agreed. Though the key task in their rebuild is to execute at least one big consolidation trade (and/or free agency acquisition) where they get back a star caliber player. If they can't pull that off, they risk getting stuck in 45-win Purgatory and will have to systematically let players go as their rookie deals expire.

They may have made a tactical error by going after Lin in free agency. He's just good enough as a PG to get that team to play to its max potential and maybe win 35+ games, putting them out of contention for a top 3 pick. A BOYD trade for a crappy PG and a future pick might have been a better move. That team could easily tank and win less than 25 games if they had crappy PG play.

I'm thinking that their strategy was to acquire Lin and a lottery pick (the pick they acquired from the Raptors) for Lowry. In hindsight, it's a pretty logical move--Lowry is a solid player, but if you can replace him with Lin and get a potentially high pick in exchange, I think you do it.

As for Houston's record next season--it will probably be pretty bad, but when was the last time the Wizards had a better record than the Rockets? It's been a very long time since that was the case, and a gambling man would absolutely put his money on the Rox to have a better season. We're only a John Wall injury away from being the worst team in the league IMO.

[Dat2U]

I didn't understand why Morey traded Lowry. To me, he was their best player and someone that could be a core piece.

KMart is coming off a down year, but he's still a top 10 SG and better than anything we have right now.

I like Lin but would take Wall as well. I think Lin will put up nice numbers in Houston.

I also like Dontas Motiejunas. He looks like he can play and possibly even start. Looking at the numbers Chandler Parsons as a rookie probably outplayed Ariza last season.

i didn't understand the Omer Asik signing (too much $) and the glut of tweener forwards. I'd probably keep Terrence Jones and deal the rest.

[Nivek]

I think Morey's got a ton of work to do if he's going to turn that terrible roster around. I'm inclined to go with DCZards analysis on this one. The backcourt could be good, but I think Martin's overrated by most, and the entire frontcourt is awful. None of their young players is someone to build around, imo. If they can find a team that really likes Martin, maybe Morey can turn it around with a good trade, but I think it's mainly a mess of low first round scraps. But they made the offseason interesting, and it'll continue to be interesting to see what they do.

DCZards is correct, I think, for this season. Houston isn't building for this season, though. Houston is positioned to make a BIG roster move or two or three this season or next offseason. We'll see what happens over the next couple years, but my prediction is that Houston will have a better record over the next 3-5 years than Washington will.