Playoff Push Trade: Wallace/Humphries for Prince/Varejao

ecuhus1981 · Post #1 » by **ecuhus1981** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:53 am

As you all know, since we just signed Crash and Kris, we can't trade them now. But Hump is eligible to be traded on January 15th; before we make the playoff push, I think we may want to pursue this 3-way deal:

BRK: Wallace/Humphries for Prince/Varejao

CLE: Varejao/Sloan for Humphries/Stuckey

DET: Stuckey/Prince for Wallace/Sloan

My question is, do my fellow Nets fans think this would be a worthwhile trade for us? The way I see it, Kris and Gerald are more offensively talented than Tayshaun and Anderson. But, do we really need any more offense, with Deron, Johnson and Brook starting, and Watson, Brooks and Teletovic off the bench? I feel that having these two longer, more agile team defenders would give us the sort of team that could compete with anyone.

Enough from me. What do you think?

deepblueday · Post #2 » by **deepblueday** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:16 am

this trade makes pretty much no difference for us, not in regular season success, not in postseason success, and neither cle or det would do it anyway

vincecarter4pres · Post #3 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:19 am

I'd lean towards doing this, although from the little I watched of Detroit last year, Prince really looked to have slowed, so that gives me pause.

Also, I see Side Show as a massive upgrade to Hump because he's a very good defender, even though he's tough to watch with his flopping antics, but my main area of concern is he's ALWAYS injured.

I don't know, but I lean towards yes.

llemon · Post #4 » by **llemon** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:40 am

And Deron for Stuckey?

enetric · Post #5 » by **enetric** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:39 am

I didnt want either of those overrated players 3 years ago when people yacked about them...dont want them now.

SpeedyG · Post #6 » by **SpeedyG** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:02 pm

Push us towards what, exactly?

DarkXaero · Post #7 » by **DarkXaero** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:18 pm

I say no. Prince has slowed down a lot and while Varejao is a big upgrade on Humphries (and probably a perfect fit on this team), he's too injury prone.

JoseRizal · Post #8 » by **JoseRizal** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:18 am

I voted no. I don't think those 2 would even make a dent...

Shappy · Post #9 » by **Shappy** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:36 am

I also say no

jeff1624 · Post #10 » by **jeff1624** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:10 am

I'd do it. Varejao is just a better all around player than Humphries and would make this team better. Prince's contract is shorter and would be easier to trade than Wallace.

ecuhus1981 · Post #11 » by **ecuhus1981** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:54 am

jeff1624 wrote:Prince's contract is shorter and would be easier to trade than Wallace.

Good point. I like the idea that both Tay and Anderson would come off of our books at the same time. Also, an added bonus to this deal would be that it lowers our payroll by nearly $7mil (not that Prokhy is losing sleep over it...).

IMO, our biggest weakness will be pick-and-roll defense. Wallace and Humphries will be leaned upon heavily to provide a high level of defense, but elite teams with star playmakers like BOS, SAS, LAL and MIA will carve us up, and neither or our duo are very good at defending P&R. The duo we're trading for, though, are both renowned in this regard. Prince may have lost a step, but he's still as good a team defender as there is in the league, and has championship experience. Varejao's injury woes do concern me, but his length, tenacity and mobility match up better against some of the postseason bigs we may see (Bosh, Stoudemire, Garnett, even Howard) than Lopez.

I must say I'm surprised that so many Nets fans are outspoken against this deal. I figured it might be a 50/50 split, with the strongest dissenters simply viewing it as an unnecessary, neutral move. If we're holding up other team's players under a microscope, we might be surprised with what we see of our own guys with the same scrutiny. We may see Kris as a top-10 PF, but most people see him a malcontent and ballhog, who stat-stuffs every contract year. Gerald has some blemishes, too, from his declining athleticism and overall skill erosion to his... well, 40 million other reasons.

Born_Ready · Post #12 » by **Born_Ready** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:09 pm

I would have to decline.

DarkXaero · Post #13 » by **DarkXaero** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:28 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:
jeff1624 wrote:Prince's contract is shorter and would be easier to trade than Wallace.

Good point. I like the idea that both Tay and Anderson would come off of our books at the same time. Also, an added bonus to this deal would be that it lowers our payroll by nearly $7mil (not that Prokhy is losing sleep over it...).

IMO, our biggest weakness will be pick-and-roll defense. Wallace and Humphries will be leaned upon heavily to provide a high level of defense, but elite teams with star playmakers like BOS, SAS, LAL and MIA will carve us up, and neither or our duo are very good at defending P&R. The duo we're trading for, though, are both renowned in this regard. Prince may have lost a step, but he's still as good a team defender as there is in the league, and has championship experience. Varejao's injury woes do concern me, but his length, tenacity and mobility match up better against some of the postseason bigs we may see (Bosh, Stoudemire, Garnett, even Howard) than Lopez.

I must say I'm surprised that so many Nets fans are outspoken against this deal. I figured it might be a 50/50 split, with the strongest dissenters simply viewing it as an unnecessary, neutral move. If we're holding up other team's players under a microscope, we might be surprised with what we see of our own guys with the same scrutiny. We may see Kris as a top-10 PF, but most people see him a malcontent and ballhog, who stat-stuffs every contract year. Gerald has some blemishes, too, from his declining athleticism and overall skill erosion to his... well, 40 million other reasons.

If Varejao wasn't so injury prone, I would do it, but the fact is that he has become very injury prone. Just 56 games in the last two seasons. Also, I think that you're overrating Tayshaun a bit, his defense is gone.

ecuhus1981 · Post #14 » by **ecuhus1981** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:57 am

^

The injury concerns are fair enough. If Varejao is hobbling around or racking up DNP's in January, obviously this deal is DoA. I'll have to check out Tayshaun some more, if everyone else is so sure he's cooked. The little I saw of him last year, he looked like the same old defensively sound role-player, except at 32 he's a little slower. Still, I think we'll see a more gradual decline in his game, since it is predicated on length and footwork, as opposed to strength and athleticism.

Inadvertently, enetric brought up a good point, on a different thread. THE APRON: a salary line $4mil above the luxury tax level, that takes away the ability to execute S&T's. With this trade, we would be within striking distance of being below the apron, ~ $2mil off. This would open up new avenues to improve the team. Guys like Bynum, Harden, Ibaka, Iguodala, Evans, Ginobili would vault us in contender status, for the right S&T price. Heck, I would even court Paul, hope to run a two-PG set and just set off double rainbows all over the back of Avery Johnson's mind!

Lest I forget, there is one other bigtime FA next summer. I'm sure everyone wants the Dwightmare to be over, but as a UFA, he could choose his destination. If things don't work out in LaLaLand, we could swoop in and actually secure him this time. Hennigan, DeVos and Co. could eat their hearts out, and probably would.

Yes, I'm really riffing on an imaginary trade. But as inconsequential as the deal may seem, it could be a masterstroke that eventually leads us to the promised land.

enetric · Post #15 » by **enetric** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:26 am

jeff1624 wrote:I'd do it. Varejao is just a better all around player than Humphries and would make this team better. Prince's contract is shorter and would be easier to trade than Wallace.

What is so all around better about Varejao? He is the same type of player plus flopping. He isnt adding offense. So you are praising his flopping and hoping he stays healthy for a change. Maybe if he stopped flopping he would get hurt less. But if he did that...do you know who you would have? Kris Humphries with a really bad haircut.

No idea why people overrate this guy. He is so incredibly mediocre. Yes, he has hustle. No...he isnt that good of a basketball player. Low double double guy whether the team around him is good or bad.

enetric · Post #16 » by **enetric** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:30 am

ecuhus1981 wrote:
jeff1624 wrote:Prince's contract is shorter and would be easier to trade than Wallace.

Good point. I like the idea that both Tay and Anderson would come off of our books at the same time. Also, an added bonus to this deal would be that it lowers our payroll by nearly $7mil (not that Prokhy is losing sleep over it...).

IMO, our biggest weakness will be pick-and-roll defense. Wallace and Humphries will be leaned upon heavily to provide a high level of defense, but elite teams with star playmakers like BOS, SAS, LAL and MIA will carve us up, and neither or our duo are very good at defending P&R. The duo we're trading for, though, are both renowned in this regard. Prince may have lost a step, but he's still as good a team defender as there is in the league, and has championship experience. Varejao's injury woes do concern me, but his length, tenacity and mobility match up better against some of the postseason bigs we may see (Bosh, Stoudemire, Garnett, even Howard) than Lopez.

I must say I'm surprised that so many Nets fans are outspoken against this deal. I figured it might be a 50/50 split, with the strongest dissenters simply viewing it as an unnecessary, neutral move. If we're holding up other team's players under a microscope, we might be surprised with what we see of our own guys with the same scrutiny. We may see Kris as a top-10 PF, but most people see him a malcontent and ballhog, who stat-stuffs every contract year. Gerald has some blemishes, too, from his declining athleticism and overall skill erosion to his... well, 40 million other reasons.

Even declined Wallace is better than Prince declined. I dont think there was any point of their careers I wouldnt have taken Crash over him including now. And as I said....minor difference between Varejao and Hump. No enough to make me care or give up other assets to get him.

Maybe the reason many of us arent into this idea is that we see that neither of these guys is anything special rather than overrating our own guys as you have surmised. I dont disagree with your analysis of our guys...just on the value of the two declining role players you covet.

vincecarter4pres · Post #17 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:59 pm

Varejao is a significantly better defensive player then Hump and can actually operate some in the pick and roll.

llemon · Post #18 » by **llemon** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:27 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:Varejao is a significantly better defensive player then Hump and can actually operate some in the pick and roll.

Unfortunately, Varejao can't defend the pick and roll while injured on the bench.

drejeronfire · Post #19 » by **drejeronfire** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:23 pm

llemon wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:Varejao is a significantly better defensive player then Hump and can actually operate some in the pick and roll.

Unfortunately, Varejao can't defend the pick and roll while injured on the bench.

Even when on the bench his defense can't be that much worse than Humphries...

enetric · Post #20 » by **enetric** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:34 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:Varejao is a significantly better defensive player then Hump and can actually operate some in the pick and roll.

Operate how? Pick his nose and fling it? Come on. Dude has close to no offensive game. I agree that Hump is poor defensively and has led feet. But Varejao is so insanely overrated. Whether you prefer him or not to Hump he is in that same category. Mediocre role player who can rebound. I have no problem liking him more than Hump who you obviously hate...but lets not pretend this dude is the second coming of anything or remotely a game changer.

Should the Nets Do It?