Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI "Re-Building" Edition)

Deezy · Post #401 » by **Deezy** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:25 pm

Another thing...

If Harden was dealt to us, they're not taking back any big salaries. It would be for picks, cap relief (via TPE) and young prospects on cheap contracts (Nicholson, Vucevic, Harkless, etc).

If they're going to pay the lux tax for guys like Afflalo or BBD, they might as well bite the bullet and keep Harden.

magicman123 · Post #402 » by **magicman123** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:28 pm

MagicStarwipe wrote:Am I the only one who thinks Harden isn't all that great? Great complimentary player, yes, but nowhere near a franchise player.

i think some fans have been so desperate for a perimeter player, that guys like gay, harden, iggy, etc are getting overrated, harden is and will be a great complimentary player, i don't see him as a franchise player or the main piece on a team, of course i wouldn't mind having harden

Post #403 » by **Def Swami** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:30 pm

MagicStarwipe wrote:Am I the only one who thinks Harden isn't all that great? Great complimentary player, yes, but nowhere near a franchise player.

You are not alone. I think he's a good player, but not deserving of a max contract. He's simply a scorer. He's not a franchise player. He's a contemporary Ginobili that needs Parker and Duncan to be successful. Unless we have those other 2 components, getting Harden doesn't change much for us.

Nyce_1 · Post #404 » by **Nyce_1** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:32 pm

??????/Jameer/Ish
Harden/Redick or Afflalo
Wiggins/Harkless
Nicholson
Vucevic/O'Quinn

ADRajX · Post #405 » by **ADRajX** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:35 pm

It's going to be very difficult for OKC to keep Harden. If there is any way we can get him, I'm all for it. He's not a franchise player, but he's a complimentary player (as VGOSWAMI said). He can put up all-star numbers, but he needs another star with him on the court. He's a 2nd or 3rd option kind of player. However I believe if we can get him, he would definitely help speed up our rebuilding process, that's for sure. He's only 23. We can still lose/tank with Harden on this team.

Post #406 » by **Def Swami** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:45 pm

Royce Young ‏@dailythunder
OKC signing Ibaka doesn't mean the Thunder chose him over Harden. They're still working on that extension too.

dsg2021 · Post #407 » by **dsg2021** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:51 pm

Harden is worth the max, and as a #1-#2 option easily. His stats and watching him show as someone who's both a good 3 shooter and a high volume rim attacker, yet smart enough to make good passes, solid defense and sound decisions. Since Harper looks like he has offensive game at SF, send him, Afflalo, and either BBD, or Ayon and one late 1st for Harden.

OrlandoMajinBuu · Post #408 » by **OrlandoMajinBuu** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:53 pm

Could that TPE be use to get Millsap expiring with the lottery pick (their 1st)?

And could we trade AL to the Bobcats for a 1st?

That way Magic will have 2 picks selection maybe top 5 for 2013..?
Noel, Muhammad?

Deezy · Post #409 » by **Deezy** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:02 pm

VGOSWAMI wrote:
Royce Young ‏@dailythunder
OKC signing Ibaka doesn't mean the Thunder chose him over Harden. They're still working on that extension too.

Of course they're working on it. They've been trying to get Harden below market value.

Problem is, by finalizing Ibaka's $12M/per, there's no way they can convince Harden to sign for less. Either pay him the $14-15M max or trade him.

RickB-Orlando · Post #410 » by **RickB-Orlando** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:03 pm

fbeye343 wrote:sign and trade

harden for afflalo/big baby

Howard trade starts to look a whole lot better

I'm a little confused as to why so many folks want to move BBD. This is a guy who will be a leader on this team that works hard every night and is only 26 years old. I think he's going to be part of this team for a long time.

MagicFan41 · Post #411 » by **MagicFan41** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:04 pm

OrlandoMajinBuu wrote:Could that TPE be use to get Millsap expiring with the lottery pick (their 1st)?

And could we trade AL to the Bobcats for a 1st?

That way Magic will have 2 picks selection maybe top 5 for 2013..?
Noel, Muhammad?

Not sure why Utah would get rid of an expiring as well as give up their pick? Why not just let him expire or try to trade him for assets? Also, rumors were that we were involved in talks with Utah for Millsap for a S&T with Ryno....but obviously we didn't wanna go that route for whatever reason...

RickB-Orlando · Post #412 » by **RickB-Orlando** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:08 pm

OrlandoMajinBuu wrote:Could that TPE be use to get Millsap expiring with the lottery pick (their 1st)?

And could we trade AL to the Bobcats for a 1st?

That way Magic will have 2 picks selection maybe top 5 for 2013..?
Noel, Muhammad?

No one is trading a top five pick for Al Harrington. He's a nice trade piece, but he isn't THAT good.

And I don't see anyone trading an expiring with a first for the TPE. The idea of doing that sort of move is we get a first round pick in return for taking on an extra year or two that a team doesn't want to pay anymore, say to get or stay under the lux tax. The trade you're describing in essence a team is giving away both an expiring and a pick for nothing in return.

Nyce_1 · Post #413 » by **Nyce_1** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:14 pm

Deezy wrote:
VGOSWAMI wrote:
Royce Young ‏@dailythunder
OKC signing Ibaka doesn't mean the Thunder chose him over Harden. They're still working on that extension too.

Of course they're working on it. They've been trying to get Harden below market value.

Problem is, by finalizing Ibaka's $12M/per, there's no way they can convince Harden to sign for less. Either pay him the $14-15M max or trade him.

based on his years in the league, a max for Harden is roughly $13M.

Post #414 » by **Def Swami** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:21 pm

dsg2021 wrote:Harden is worth the max, and as a #1-#2 option easily. His stats and watching him show as someone who's both a good 3 shooter and a high volume rim attacker, yet smart enough to make good passes, solid defense and sound decisions. Since Harper looks like he has offensive game at SF, send him, Afflalo, and either BBD, or Ayon and one late 1st for Harden.

Here's my concern with this Harden idea.

He won't come that cheap via trade. If OKC deals Harden to us, they'll definitely be looking for our lottery pick this year and more of our trade assets. I don't think it's worth depleting those assets just for Harden. And I think we could find a guy with Harden's skill set in the lottery for cheap. OKC isn't going to want long term salary in Afflalo and Big Baby. If we trade for him, it'll come at a steep price.

As much as I don't think he's good enough to garner max money, I wouldn't mind it as much if we signed him as a free agent, allowing us to keep our trade assets. It's important to have those if we sign Harden because he isn't a #1 option. Can definitely be a good #2, but we'd have to use those assets to land a real horse via free agency or draft. Unfortunately, once Harden hits free agency, more teams step in ready to pounce. Phoenix especially.

LONDON -- A flicker of hope for Valley basketball fans:

Former Arizona State star James Harden would consider signing with the Suns if his contract expires after next season.

"Yeah," he said. "Of course. I love it there. My mom lives there still. So that's definitely my second home as far as my comfort level and going to school there. But obviously, I'm with the Thunder right now and what we have is special."

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/ar ... z23v41JgKs

OrlandoMajinBuu · Post #415 » by **OrlandoMajinBuu** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:24 pm

• Undrafted free agent Charlie Westbrook has agreed to a three-year deal with Italian team Tezenis Veronia, tweets Steve Kyler of HoopsWorld. Westbrook, who was in summer league with the Magic, tweeted earlier this week that he would be passing on two training camp opportunities to play overseas

Deezy · Post #416 » by **Deezy** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:38 pm

Nyce_1 wrote:based on his years in the league, a max for Harden is roughly $13M.

Actually, I believe it's 25% of the cap based on his years. For ~$60M, a max would start at $15M with 7.5% raises assuming we traded for him, thus acquiring his bird rights.

Cigamodnalro · Post #417 » by **Cigamodnalro** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:47 pm

Magic trade:
JJ Redick
Glen Davis
Al Harrington
Justin Harper

Bulls trade:
Richard Hamilton's 2 yr 10m contract
Carlos Boozer's 3 year 45m contract
Charlotte Bobcats 1st Round Pick

Magic buyout Carlos Boozer, who is free to sign with a contender

Magic roster:
C: Nikola Vucevic, Gustavo Ayon, Kyle O'Quinn
PF: Andrew Nicholson, Josh McRoberts
SF: Moe Harkless, Christian Eyenga
SG: Arron Afflalo, Richard Hamilton, DeAndre Liggins
PG: Jameer Nelson, Ish Smith
Inactive: Hedo Turkoglu, Quentin Richarson

DMack78 · Post #418 » by **DMack78** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:47 pm

MagicStarwipe wrote:Am I the only one who thinks Harden isn't all that great? Great complimentary player, yes, but nowhere near a franchise player.

Paired with another star he would be good. As the #1 option I don't think he works

meatwad4343 · Post #419 » by **meatwad4343** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:50 pm

Cigamodnalro wrote:Magic trade:
JJ Redick
Glen Davis
Al Harrington
Justin Harper

Bulls trade:
Richard Hamilton's 2 yr 10m contract
Carlos Boozer's 3 year 45m contract
Charlotte Bobcats 1st Round Pick

Magic buyout Carlos Boozer, who is free to sign with a contender

Magic roster:
C: Nikola Vucevic, Gustavo Ayon, Kyle O'Quinn
PF: Andrew Nicholson, Josh McRoberts
SF: Moe Harkless, Christian Eyenga
SG: Arron Afflalo, Richard Hamilton, DeAndre Liggins
PG: Jameer Nelson, Ish Smith
Inactive: Hedo Turkoglu, Quentin Richarson

so we'd trade for boozer and then pay him 45 million to go away? don't think devos will do that.

Nyce_1 · Post #420 » by **Nyce_1** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:51 pm

Cigamodnalro wrote:Magic trade:
JJ Redick
Glen Davis
Al Harrington
Justin Harper

Bulls trade:
Richard Hamilton's 2 yr 10m contract
Carlos Boozer's 3 year 45m contract
Charlotte Bobcats 1st Round Pick

Magic buyout Carlos Boozer, who is free to sign with a contender

Magic roster:
C: Nikola Vucevic, Gustavo Ayon, Kyle O'Quinn
PF: Andrew Nicholson, Josh McRoberts
SF: Moe Harkless, Christian Eyenga
SG: Arron Afflalo, Richard Hamilton, DeAndre Liggins
PG: Jameer Nelson, Ish Smith
Inactive: Hedo Turkoglu, Quentin Richarson

yuck. If we take on Boozer, why do we give them ANY assets? To take Boozer for TPE, they better send Char #1 and their own #1.