Scavenger Hunt Draft - finals - Fred Wins!!!

[LamarMatic7]

Don't know much about Vinnie, was he a 1 or 2?

A 2 who would come off screens and hit 15-footers off Isiah's passes. He had a great mid-range game and could really heat up hence the nickname.

[LamarMatic7]

Well I can't believe this player hasn't been taken yet, I've read over the rules and fatlever's rule clarification 100 times and the players taken list and can't see anything wrong with it, so..... I'm taking 1982-1983 Adrian Dantley as my Journeyman and moving him into the starting lineup and sending Reggie to the bench.

I, for one, didn't take him since he's a very moody guy who takes a lot of shots, he wouldn't quite fit in my team. There's a reason Detroit traded him in their championship season. Ironically, for another moody ballhog in Mark Aguirre.

[LamarMatic7]

Just for clarification when all this is over and we are judging teams we are using single years and not career longevity, right? Thats the whole point of the pick a year thing? Because there are some flash in the pan-type players who had incredible years but fizzled out.

Well, I think that the whole point of the pick a year thing is taking a player in a particular stage of his career, since there are players who have multiple peaks or who played differently when they were young and athletic, however stayed effective when older.

However, I suppose that you don't undermine a team that has players with a shorter career. Well, you can point out that there are too many druggies on somebody's team, but that's about it I guess.

I just hope that we'll also notice the impact of the player's season. There's a difference between putting up good stats on a finals team and the Clippers, per example. You can find plenty of 20pts per game guys in the Clippers history and that's the exact reason why they were flash in the pan-type players. Someone like Horace Grant is more valuable than Shareef Abdur-Rahim, in my book.

[SWedd523]

I honestly won't go researching each pick of the other team's to see what sort of specific year they had. More often than not, I'll just base it off their career and impact. Now if it's a guy like DJ or Rodman who had wildly different roles in different times of their career then I'll adjust for it.

But I definitely won't penalize if you were to pick a guy who only played a handful of seasons yet was remarkably effective in that short span, or a guy who had a really long and average career, but had a great season or three.

Yao Ming for example, was a huge letdown because he couldn't stay healthy but for a handful of seasons, so in the grand scheme, he isn't a top Center. But when he was healthy, he put up some fantastic numbers. So I won't remember the injured Yao, I'll remember the 22/11/2 Yao.

[SWedd523]

I just hope that we'll also notice the impact of the player's season. There's a difference between putting up good stats on a finals team and the Clippers, per example. You can find plenty of 20pts per game guys in the Clippers history and that's the exact reason why they were flash in the pan-type players. Someone like Horace Grant is more valuable than Shareef Abdur-Rahim, in my book.

I think that's a dangerous mindset. Some guys didn't have great team success because they simply didn't have a good team.

I picked Dominique, and I stated then (and will repeat now) that people will hold against him that he didn't have a ton of playoff success. But is it really his fault that he had the worst supporting cast of any 80s star? Is it really his fault he couldn't take a team full trash through the Bird Celtics?

Taking that a step further, and this is just me, but I'm looking at how they'll fit in our fictional teams' lineups, not the ones they were on at the time. If we took players specifically based on how they did that year and not how we think they'd fit as a team then there's no point to bother picking guys to fit certain positions.

For example, if a guy ended up with Magic/Nique/Rodman/Ben Wallace/Bill Laimbeer, you wouldn't say, "wow you picked a lot of guys who had very successful teams those specific years so that must be a good lineup"

You'd say, "pack the paint and that team is really ineffective"

[Diop]

Well, I think that the whole point of the pick a year thing is taking a player in a particular stage of his career, since there are players who have multiple peaks or who played differently when they were young and athletic, however stayed effective when older.

However, I suppose that you don't undermine a team that has players with a shorter career. Well, you can point out that there are too many druggies on somebody's team, but that's about it I guess.

I hadn't thought about some of the druggies, there has definitely been some wasted talent that put out a decent season or 2

[LamarMatic7]

I just hope that we'll also notice the impact of the player's season. There's a difference between putting up good stats on a finals team and the Clippers, per example. You can find plenty of 20pts per game guys in the Clippers history and that's the exact reason why they were flash in the pan-type players. Someone like Horace Grant is more valuable than Shareef Abdur-Rahim, in my book.

I think that's a dangerous mindset. Some guys didn't have great team success because they simply didn't have a good team.

I picked Dominique, and I stated then (and will repeat now) that people will hold against him that he didn't have a ton of playoff success. But is it really his fault that he had the worst supporting cast of any 80s star? Is it really his fault he couldn't take a team full trash through the Bird Celtics?

Taking that a step further, and this is just me, but I'm looking at how they'll fit in our fictional teams' lineups, not the ones they were on at the time. If we took players specifically based on how they did that year and not how we think they'd fit as a team then there's no point to bother picking guys to fit certain positions.

For example, if a guy ended up with Magic/Nique/Rodman/Ben Wallace/Bill Laimbeer, you wouldn't say, "wow you picked a lot of guys who had very successful teams those specific years so that must be a good lineup"

You'd say, "pack the paint and that team is really ineffective"

well, maybe I went over the board a little, but still the point I tried to make was - statistics don't mean everything.

[LamarMatic7]

Well, I think that the whole point of the pick a year thing is taking a player in a particular stage of his career, since there are players who have multiple peaks or who played differently when they were young and athletic, however stayed effective when older.

However, I suppose that you don't undermine a team that has players with a shorter career. Well, you can point out that there are too many druggies on somebody's team, but that's about it I guess.

I hadn't thought about some of the druggies, there has definitely been some wasted talent that put out a decent season or 2

well so far there's only Kemp and King. From what we know Kemp couldn't have been on drugs in 1995-96, from the way he played in the finals. I believe the theory of Seattle giving all that money to McIlvaine and Shawn falling into depression.

I know that King was into cocaine in the late 70s, early 80s. The one that got drafted (84-85) was probably clean.

[Takuya Kimura]

09-10 Pau Gasol with ALL-NBA
&
96/97 Glen Rice with Journeyman(Heat,Hornets,Lakers,Knicks,Clippers,Rockets)

[JDuaneWayne]

Sorry for the delay, I was driving back from FL yesterday and thought I had posted I would moved Pierce to All-NBA and something about enjoying urine in my cornflakes. However it seems it did not post.

[fatlever]

PG: Steve Nash (18.6 PPG, 11.6 APG, 53% FG, 45% 3PT, 90% FT)
SG: Adrian Dantley (30.7 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 4.8 APG, 58% FG, 85% FT)
SF: Scottie Pippen (22.0 PPG, 8.7 RPG, 5.6 APG, 2.9 SPG, 50% FG)
PF: Charles Barkley (25.6 PPG, 12.2 RPG, 5.1 APG, 1.6 SPG, 52% FG)
C: Ming Yao (22.0 PPG, 10.8 RPG, 2.0 BPG, 50% FG, 85% FT, Really Tall)

Bench:
G: Reggie Miller (24.6 PPG, 3.8 APG, 3.6 RPG, 51% FG, 42% 3PT, 86% FT)

Also this was not who I was planning to pick Sweed

why did you move reggie to the bench? he was a good fit for your starting lineup. dantley was a 6'3" power forward/small forward. definitely not a guard. you'd be better playing pippen at guard if this was your lineup. his entire game was low post, get to ft line. similar to barkley on offense, minus the hops.

[fatlever]

09-10 Pau Gasol with ALL-NBA
&
96/97 Glen Rice with Journeyman(Heat,Hornets,Lakers,Knicks,Clippers,Rockets)

glen rice is a perfect example of getting a player in his best year vs his career average. rice had a solid career, but in 96-97 he was amazing. he had one of the best shooting years of any player ever.

[MKG14]

PG: Steve Nash (18.6 PPG, 11.6 APG, 53% FG, 45% 3PT, 90% FT)
SG: Adrian Dantley (30.7 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 4.8 APG, 58% FG, 85% FT)
SF: Scottie Pippen (22.0 PPG, 8.7 RPG, 5.6 APG, 2.9 SPG, 50% FG)
PF: Charles Barkley (25.6 PPG, 12.2 RPG, 5.1 APG, 1.6 SPG, 52% FG)
C: Ming Yao (22.0 PPG, 10.8 RPG, 2.0 BPG, 50% FG, 85% FT, Really Tall)

Bench:
G: Reggie Miller (24.6 PPG, 3.8 APG, 3.6 RPG, 51% FG, 42% 3PT, 86% FT)

Also this was not who I was planning to pick Sweed

why did you move reggie to the bench? he was a good fit for your starting lineup. dantley was a 6'3" power forward/small forward. definitely not a guard. you'd be better playing pippen at guard if this was your lineup. his entire game was low post, get to ft line. similar to barkley on offense, minus the hops.

agreed, he has more passing in the starting lineup than any team could use

[LamarMatic7]

09-10 Pau Gasol with ALL-NBA
&
96/97 Glen Rice with Journeyman(Heat,Hornets,Lakers,Knicks,Clippers,Rockets)

glen rice is a perfect example of getting a player in his best year vs his career average. rice had a solid career, but in 96-97 he was amazing. he had one of the best shooting years of any player ever.

He really feasted during those three seasons of the closer three point line.

[LamarMatic7]

PG: Steve Nash (18.6 PPG, 11.6 APG, 53% FG, 45% 3PT, 90% FT)
SG: Adrian Dantley (30.7 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 4.8 APG, 58% FG, 85% FT)
SF: Scottie Pippen (22.0 PPG, 8.7 RPG, 5.6 APG, 2.9 SPG, 50% FG)
PF: Charles Barkley (25.6 PPG, 12.2 RPG, 5.1 APG, 1.6 SPG, 52% FG)
C: Ming Yao (22.0 PPG, 10.8 RPG, 2.0 BPG, 50% FG, 85% FT, Really Tall)

Bench:
G: Reggie Miller (24.6 PPG, 3.8 APG, 3.6 RPG, 51% FG, 42% 3PT, 86% FT)

Also this was not who I was planning to pick Sweed

why did you move reggie to the bench? he was a good fit for your starting lineup. dantley was a 6'3" power forward/small forward. definitely not a guard. you'd be better playing pippen at guard if this was your lineup. his entire game was low post, get to ft line. similar to barkley on offense, minus the hops.

Do you buy into the whole "he's definitely not 6'5" thing, fats? I, for one, think that the data on him being 6'5" is correct. If anything, he's 6'4" at the least. But seems like many people (among them Simmons) claim that he couldn't be that tall. I think that we as vintage basketball fans are trying too hard to make our heroes remarkable. It stands out when people rave how Charles Barkley and Larry Johnson were 6'4" power fowards and that you won't see anybody like them nowadays.

[fatlever]

@ lamar - haha... true. honestly, i dont know if dantley was 6'3" or 6'6". shame we didnt have combine numbers from back then. bottom line, he was defintely an undersized post-up forward similar in height to barkley.

but he definitely was not a guard. that much i know.

[fatlever]

coolio - for some reason we all love debating your players

[LamarMatic7]

but he definitely was not a guard. that much i know.

well, he's a player that you can't describe with any of the five classic basketball positions. If people like to call some players "point forwards", then Dantley would be a "power guard". The announcing crew might say that Isiah and Dantley are Detroit's starting back-court and hypothetically they might not be wrong, but it's just that Dantley played nothing like a guard. He would receive the ball in the post and work his way further from there.

[MKG14]

but he definitely was not a guard. that much i know.

well, he's a player that you can't describe with any of the five classic basketball positions. If people like to call some players "point forwards", then Dantley would be a "power guard". The announcing crew might say that Isiah and Dantley are Detroit's starting back-court and hypothetically they might not be wrong, but it's just that Dantley played nothing like a guard. He would receive the ball in the post and work his way further from there.

that sounds pretty damn cool!

Though it sounds like Miller would be a a better option either way because of his shooting and off ball ability.

[fatlever]

i am trying to think of any recent players who played like dantley. the closest i can come up with is bonzi wells when he was in portland. his entire game then was to get his man iso'd down in the post and go to work. quentin richardson was a little bit like that as well his first 2 seasons in the league (before he went to suns and started jacking up 3s).

i guess simmons was on point when he said, we will see 30 more alex english's before we see another dantley. both extremely unique compared to players today.