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Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay

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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#21 » by jman3134 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:08 am

I am not sure where you got your information but your critique is the polar opposite of what Draft Express has on Harrison. Nonetheless if you intend to interchange Allen and MKG that is a bigger reason to have caution on drafting him as to acquire him you are trading Rudy Gay so you still need to find a serviceable 3. He is also a bit undersized to play that position long term. MKG also is so limited offensively that unless he is in a fastbreak offense his best skills as you mentioned is backing down a smaller opponent, which isn't exactly go to since he is not as strong as his frame indicates (during testing only benched required weight 6 times, Harrison did it 15 times) Harrison also tested better athletically than MKG, and you have already conceeded he has a better jumpshot. MKG took the fewest shots for Kentucky which indicates he knew his limitations. I also don't have the faith in the Coaching staff to make something out of him that you have.


It's really not the polar opposite of what DX has. They recognize that his numbers were disappointing this season, and in their valuation of him (if I'm recalling correctly), they said that he only shot ~33% from the field in the tournament. The Assist to Turnover Ratio/Information on Jump Shooting came directly from DX, as someone had pointed to those jump shooting statistics previously in a debate about Barnes.

To answer where I got my overall perception of him, it was from watching him play time and again.

That is a point worth mentioning with regard to the 3. We can answer that question in free agency. As it currently stands, we are going to need someone to fill OJ Mayo's minutes. MKG could play either position. He didn't really back down his opponents much at UK from what I saw. He scored in transition, off of drives to the basket, and on baskets off of an offensive rebound. I wouldn't consider the combine's lifting test a true measure of functional strength. By those standards, Kevin Durant shouldn't be able to play in the NBA, as he had 0 reps on the bench. Harrison tested better athletically, but he is not a better athlete on the court. He can't drive by his man at all and rarely got to the rim last year, the exact opposite of Gilchrist. He has a horrible first step and this limited him offensively. Whether or not his vertical is two inches or so more than Gilchrist's is irrelevant. Their athleticism figures were virtually a wash at the combine (with Harrison having the slight edge), but the difference is that Gilchrist actually translates his athleticism to in-game scenarios.

Actually, that does not indicate that he understood his limitations at all. It demonstrates that he rarely forced his shot. For reference, he took 18.6% of his team's shots and Anthony Davis took 18.7%. Can you apply this same logic to Davis, intimating that he recognized his limitations? All this means is that he understood his role and rarely forced shots. Despite his paltry numbers from beyond the arc, Gilchrist had a 57% TS % and a 51.1% eFG% compared to Barnes' 52.8% TS% and 48.7% eFG%. He was the more efficient offensive player last year and the far better defender. Kidd-Gilchrist still has room to grow with his jumper, and he is a full year younger than Barnes. If he stayed another year, I would have expected that margin to significantly change in favor of MKG.

I don't oppose drafting MKG but everyone should realise what you are getting. His defensive skills againist boys may not exactly be the same againist men and if that is the case then what?


Well the boys that he played against/with are future stars in the NBA. UK played a challenging schedule and he traveled a lot to play the top competition in high school. He's extremely battle tested for a young player. His defensive abilities will likely translate immediately. If you watch some of the Kansas-UK matchup, he was guarding Kansas' point guard. His versatility enables him to cover 1-4 in the NBA imo. That is very useful for us if we are looking to bring in combo guards, as our management has recently stated in interviews during workouts. (workout thread)

What will he hang his hat on? You can expect him to better than Tony Allen do you? So if he is not better than Tony he can't supplant Tony and you can't play them together unless D. Rose is their point guard and he shoots everything, what will be his value?


Defense, work ethic, becoming a wing after playing forward his entire life. There is so much room for growth there. So many ball skills that will likely be developed. His value will be on the defensive end and he will likely become a shooter down the road if he continues to progress at such a rapid rate in converting to the wing. I doubt he will ever be an elite shooter, but plenty of guys have developed their shot in the NBA. Given his work ethic, I'm pretty sure that he has this ability. Further, his value will be as a stopper on the defensive end guarding 1-3. He can also rebound and is extremely aggressive. MKG is one of the biggest lifelong winners in the draft, and that should not be underestimated either. Also, MKG is more of a complimentary defender to TA. He has quick hands but at times is more of a positional defender, like a quicker, more athletic Battier. That worked for us before.

One last thing regarding the Grizzly Defensive prowess, I believe it is a bit of a mirage and does not mean that they necessarily stop people. They play the passing lanes and Tony is a lock down defender but there are times when they don't stop anyone and the opposing team is in the paint like it is a layup line. They play the pick and roll horribly and especially when Conley/ZBO are the defenders. IMO building a so called Defensive unit in the mold of the 90's Pistons has always been wishful thinking with the group of guys on the roster. They just don't show up consistently enough to make that plausible, it is also not a good sign when your bench guys are your best defenders with the exception of T.A.


I disagree. I think that we do play the passing lanes and angles fairly well. And, I think that our perimeter D is fairly elite. The problems that we run into are due to the lack of mobility/superior athleticism on our front line. (between Zach and Marc) Perimeter defenders often angle offensive players towards shot blockers, but they need to make the play. Our problem is that we have no elite shot blockers on our team. Gilchrist can block shots, but we do need to address this issue in the future as well. It is another excellent point. I think Darrell Arthur coming back would definitely make a difference.
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#22 » by dark-child » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:10 am

Very good points and I am almost swayed, but if he doesn't pan out for whatever team drafts him I reserve the right to say I told you so. Before your last installment I had him at Best case scenario - a less explosive Stacey Augmon and worst case as Anthony Mason Sr.

I will relent and if he can develop an outside game that he can become Scottie Pippen - light.

To be in position to draft him Charlotte and Sacramento would have to be the Grizzlies trading partners and you could then receive a veteran 3 in the trade along with a top five pick to secure his services.

But I am still a wee bit nervous about signing the oft injured D.A. to a long term deal unless it is around the 3 million and below per year.
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#23 » by jman3134 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:27 am

Very good points and I am almost swayed, but if he doesn't pan out for whatever team drafts him I reserve the right to say I told you so. Before your last installment I had him at Best case scenario - a less explosive Stacey Augmon and worst case as Anthony Mason Sr.


Haha. I sure hope not. It would be a shame for a guy to put in as much time as he does only to play a supporting role like Augmon. (I'm thinking later in his career obviously though) I'm not sure what I expect from MKG offensively right from the get go. I do expect sizable improvements over the next few seasons, particularly in the mechanics of his shot.

You can have that right to say I told you so though.

I will relent and if he can develop an outside game that he can become Scottie Pippen - light.

To be in position to draft him Charlotte and Sacramento would have to be the Grizzlies trading partners and you could then receive a veteran 3 in the trade along with a top five pick to secure his services.


This could be possible, but it wouldn't be anything that we would want long term.

But I am still a wee bit nervous about signing the oft injured D.A. to a long term deal unless it is around the 3 million and below per year.


I agree with you. I am hoping that the contract isn't a huge burden. I really hope his athleticism returns, as it is definitely needed in our frontcourt, especially if Zach is not playing 100%.
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#24 » by SparksFly87 » Tue Jul 3, 2012 8:38 pm

Wow I heard you guys turned down a Iguodala for Rudy Gay swap. Man that would of been a nice trade for your team chemistry.
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#25 » by Edumacated » Mon Jul 9, 2012 1:01 am

Iggy was just selected over Gay for Team USA. Wonder how other GMs around the league think of Gay.
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#26 » by casesuggs6 » Mon Aug 6, 2012 1:01 pm

jman3134 wrote:^ I'm in total agreement with you. http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-2-memphis ... g-rudy-gay

If Gay is unhappy in Memphis, why are we not looking to deal him for the #2 or #3?

If this does happen, we better not draft Harrison Barnes. I don't care how high he can jump without a ball in his hands or how fast he is end to end. The truth is that he can't get by 6'3 guys on Ohio, much less anyone at the NBA level. He's a poor man's OJ Mayo in this regard.


After reading this article and seeing the words "those in his camp insist he is unhappy" and posting some of the same dialog in a different post on this forum, I figured I'd better be careful saying, those or people in his camp, without backing it up a little.

Although I'm a little late on this topic, what I'm about to write is something I heard this weekend.

Rudy is not happy and all signs point to him wanting to be traded. How do I know? My dad is part of that camp the media talks about and he says that's what he was told. How he's part I won't get into, I'm probaly saying and doing more than I should be as it is, but about weather or not Rudy is unhappy and wants to be traded, it looks to be true. Again, that was from a conversation he had with someone this weekend.

With that said, I'd look for Rudy to be traded this season.
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#27 » by dark-child » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:37 pm

Thanks a bunch for the inside skinny. I for one always appreciate some inside insight on matters. The only thing is that given the current sale of the team, a deal is highly unlikely until that is resolved. The perspective owner reportedly lost more than 300 million on Friday due to company stock dropping. Our current owner may in turn be more receptive to other offers that do not include keeping the team in Memphis just to get it sold. By his own admision he has health issues and wants to sell now, so all depends on the severity of his health issues. In light of the recent moves it would make since to consider a move with Houston (kevin Martin and a good combination of young players), Sacramento (tyreke Evans, and Thorton) or Denver (Gallinari, Fournier, and Hamilton) to improve the team as Memphis is probably 5th best team in the conference.
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#28 » by SD2042 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:03 pm

If what's being said about Rudy is true, then the Grizz are likely looking into the best trade possible to satisify their needs and jettision an unhappy Rudy Gay in the process.
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#29 » by fuzzy1 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:45 am

Hawks fan,

What could the Hawks offer for Gasol? We have a ton of expiring contracts to offer that can bolster your bench in the short term while keeping you competitive. I'd say everyone is on the table except for maybe Horford.
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#30 » by dark-child » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:46 pm

It is highly unlikely that Marc Gasol is trading anytime soon. I know you never say never but Politicians in Washingotn DC use to say as long as you are not caught in bed with a live boy or a dead girl you are okay. So it would take something short of that for him to be considered a candidate for trade.
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#31 » by TheLastDon » Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:54 pm

Rudy Gay for 17mil Trade Exception plus 2 1st round picks for Orlando... THOUGHTS???
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#32 » by Marvin Martian » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:03 am

TheLastDon wrote:Rudy Gay for 17mil Trade Exception plus 2 1st round picks for Orlando... THOUGHTS???


Terrible. Lottery picks don't always turn into all stars and for a team who is trying to make the next step into a contender, this trade sets them 5 years backwards. Z-bo is 30 and their second best player. The team has no time to wait on a draft pick to turn into an all-star.
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#33 » by SD2042 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:16 am

Not happening. If the Grizz were to trade RG22, it would have to be for players who can contribute right away.
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#34 » by TheLastDon » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:22 pm

What would be an acceptable trade for Rudy for Memphis cause Grizzlies are in luxury tax and a tenuous ownership situation??
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#35 » by Marvin Martian » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:43 pm

TheLastDon wrote:What would be an acceptable trade for Rudy for Memphis cause Grizzlies are in luxury tax and a tenuous ownership situation??


Memphis is not that deep into the tax. Don't be surprised if they actually pay it this season. But if they won't I'm still not accepting any trade for Rudy Gay. Just look at the SF position in the NBA

Lebron = MVP

Kevin Durant = Scoring champion with a bright future

Then it gets iffy

Melo = good player but can be a cancer, a chucker, and an offensive blackhole.

Pierce = Old

Iggy = We already have Tony Allen leading a top 10 defense at a fraction of the price that Iggy is getting paid. They need offense. Trading Iggy for Gay is going make them worse.




So only KD and Bron can actually make the Grizz better but they won't get them. So Gay is untradable
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#36 » by vanjulio » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:52 pm

Batum's stock is overvalued but he is a viable Gay replacement in the right trade package. I mean every team can use a nut puncher.

Luol Deng is another allstar SF that comes to mind. I'll stick with Rudy for age and style. But you always flirt with a Taj Gibson + Deng for Rudy + Arthur/Speights as a potential shake up trade if things dont work out for both teams. (somehow make the salaries work).

You're not going to swap Rudy for a better player like you said unless it's Durant or LeMVP. The trade you make has to be a package deal where we get less basketball value back but a better deal / contract and chemistry with existing players.

You also think about taking a chance with emerging stars that could play the 3 like Klay Thompson, Gordon Hayward, Wesley Matthews, Kawhi Leonard, Evan Turner, Demarr Derozen, Chris Douglas-Roberts, or John Salmons (joking)
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#37 » by Marvin Martian » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:20 pm

vanjulio wrote:Batum's stock is overvalued but he is a viable Gay replacement in the right trade package. I mean every team can use a nut puncher.

Luol Deng is another allstar SF that comes to mind. I'll stick with Rudy for age and style. But you always flirt with a Taj Gibson + Deng for Rudy + Arthur/Speights as a potential shake up trade if things dont work out for both teams. (somehow make the salaries work).

You're not going to swap Rudy for a better player like you said unless it's Durant or LeMVP. The trade you make has to be a package deal where we get less basketball value back but a better deal / contract and chemistry with existing players.

You also think about taking a chance with emerging stars that could play the 3 like Klay Thompson, Gordon Hayward, Wesley Matthews, Kawhi Leonard, Evan Turner, Demarr Derozen, Chris Douglas-Roberts, or John Salmons (joking)



None of those players makes MEM a better team. Contracts is a moot point. What are we going to do with that extra money? Lure a superstar? To Memphis? LOL. Or perhaps you want MEM to sit on the extra cash like the Kings have been doing for years? This is a talent league and talent does not come cheap.

MEM was ranked 25th in offense last season. Rudy Gay is a shot creator who averages 20 points per game. No one on that list comes close to his offensive production. In other words, the Grizzlies weaknesses becomes magnified when Gay is replaced by any of these players.


Don't let 2010 Z-Bo cloud your judgement on who is valuable to the team and who isn't. He was on a contract year playing against the likes of Antonio McDyess and the overrated Serge Ibaka.
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#38 » by vanjulio » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:54 pm

Marvin Martian wrote:None of those players makes MEM a better team. Contracts is a moot point. What are we going to do with that extra money? Lure a superstar? To Memphis? LOL. Or perhaps you want MEM to sit on the extra cash like the Kings have been doing for years? This is a talent league and talent does not come cheap.

MEM was ranked 25th in offense last season. Rudy Gay is a shot creator who averages 20 points per game. No one on that list comes close to his offensive production. In other words, the Grizzlies weaknesses becomes magnified when Gay is replaced by any of these players.


Don't let 2010 Z-Bo cloud your judgement on who is valuable to the team and who isn't. He was on a contract year playing against the likes of Antonio McDyess and the overrated Serge Ibaka.



Zach Randolph was an allstar that year and consistently put up monster games all season long.
This is "RealGM" where contracts is not a moot point typically we're discussing how best to manage the team and so you have to take off the rose-colored shades and look hard what's best for long term success. Giving up Rudy Gay and in return getting a decent player and then prospects and leverage for bringing in a top player perhaps at another position (SG?) could be essential. I'm not talking about today though. Today I would never trade Rudy Gay. I agree the bigger question mark this season is ZBO. Can he get back closer to 2010 than he was earlier this year?

Though I see now the OP was asking what would be a suitable trade for Rudy Gay this year.... It is nearly impossible to consider. In the event teh Grizzlies start out the season 10-22 though I wouldn't pass up a trade for Kawai Leonard + draft pick + $$$ or something like that.
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#39 » by Marvin Martian » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:49 pm

vanjulio wrote:
Marvin Martian wrote:None of those players makes MEM a better team. Contracts is a moot point. What are we going to do with that extra money? Lure a superstar? To Memphis? LOL. Or perhaps you want MEM to sit on the extra cash like the Kings have been doing for years? This is a talent league and talent does not come cheap.

MEM was ranked 25th in offense last season. Rudy Gay is a shot creator who averages 20 points per game. No one on that list comes close to his offensive production. In other words, the Grizzlies weaknesses becomes magnified when Gay is replaced by any of these players.


Don't let 2010 Z-Bo cloud your judgement on who is valuable to the team and who isn't. He was on a contract year playing against the likes of Antonio McDyess and the overrated Serge Ibaka.



Zach Randolph was an allstar that year and consistently put up monster games all season long.
This is "RealGM" where contracts is not a moot point typically we're discussing how best to manage the team and so you have to take off the rose-colored shades and look hard what's best for long term success. Giving up Rudy Gay and in return getting a decent player and then prospects and leverage for bringing in a top player perhaps at another position (SG?) could be essential. I'm not talking about today though. Today I would never trade Rudy Gay. I agree the bigger question mark this season is ZBO. Can he get back closer to 2010 than he was earlier this year?

Though I see now the OP was asking what would be a suitable trade for Rudy Gay this year.... It is nearly impossible to consider. In the event teh Grizzlies start out the season 10-22 though I wouldn't pass up a trade for Kawai Leonard + draft pick + $$$ or something like that.



Fair enough. But I still wouldn't trade Rudy Gay NOW. I think that if Gay is traded, you might as well trade the rest of the core and start over with Selby and Wroten because this team cannot beat LAL or OKC without Gay. And if there's one thing I'd like avoid, it's being a treadmill team. That is not smart management.


MEM can't wait on is Zach Randolph. In possibly the most talent laden position in the NBA, MEM can't afford to have 70 million dollar Zach play poorly again.


I had an idea for a trade a while ago. It was going to send Z-bo to PHI, Iggy to UTA, and Millsap to MEM. I'm kind of upset it didn't happen.

Millsap is on the last year of his contract. And Utah most likely will not keep him with their overloaded frontcourt. Millsap is just as productive as Z-bo while being a lot cheaper.
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Re: Heisley: No Current Plans to trade Rudy Gay 

Post#40 » by vanjulio » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:53 pm

"Starting over" may have begun with departure of Mayo and entering last year of Tony Allen's contract. Throwing in Cunningham, Speights, and Pondexter with Selby/Pargo we really had a different team last year than the previous.

These are bench players but the 2 and the 4 are suspect with Speights and Arthur both being resigned despite presence of ZBO (I don't see us rushing out to get backups for Marc Gasol like that or Mike Conley or Rudy Gay). Then how to fill those vacancies? Pray you get a gem drafting in late 1st round of draft???? Free agent? (Allen Iverson / Michael Redd / Gilbert Arenas - not happening: Ray Allen and Jason Terry the latest to turn us down). Or Trade?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jyfgYtL5uw&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

I'd hate to lose Rudy Gay especially since it's the only current player jersey I own! :lol:
And the way he played against the Clippers he basically carried the team on his back on some of those games while the rest disappeared. I think all this is moot anyway since Rudy's a bit overpaid.

I think the fact is we can't expect to get much more than Cunningham or Wayne Ellington level player from free agency..... so we have to be creative. Like trading Kevin Love and Mike Miller for OJ MAYO and marko Jaric!! (that trade isn't any more crazier than a trade of Rudy Gay at this point and for us it worked out great in the long run)
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