Bogdan Tanjevic disses Kanter, Corbin, and the NBA

[Mass Rig]

Pretty much what it means is empty arenas. Guys like Tanjevic believes people are watching basketball to see the coach scream their lungs out.

Well, what can I tell you, at least basketball over there is still a sport and not a superstars show like it sadly became here.

[Sedale Threatt]

Well, what can I tell you, at least basketball over there is still a sport and not a superstars show like it sadly became here.

Comments like this just piss me off to no end. This is the exact kind of Euro snobbery that Americans react poorly to. It's just ignorant.

[JustOneFix]

Pretty much what it means is empty arenas. Guys like Tanjevic believes people are watching basketball to see the coach scream their lungs out.

Exactly.

Coaches in Europe think they are the very meaning of the game itself, while players are completely marginalized. It's a complete spin off and a very root of the entire problem.

[seren]

Pretty much what it means is empty arenas. Guys like Tanjevic believes people are watching basketball to see the coach scream their lungs out.

Well, what can I tell you, at least basketball over there is still a sport and not a superstars show like it sadly became here.

It is? It looks more like a way of coaches/managers rubbing their own egos costing clubs millions of dollars, burning money they make from the football for something that nobody cares. At least, kids care about basketball and actually do play it here and people actually watch it.

[Mass Rig]

Comments like this just piss me off to no end. This is the exact kind of Euro snobbery that Americans react poorly to. It's just ignorant.

It's not euro snobbery, it's the sad reality. I've been living in the US for 6 years, and I regularly watch the NBA. I like it, don't get me wrong. But certain things are simply absurd, and I believe that Americans tolerate them because they are not used to a different system that works in a different way.

First, there are too many games, the games are too long, and there are too many teams. The NBA is exciting only during playoff time. The number of commercials inflate the length of a game to almost 3 hours - it's ridiculous. This turns the sport into a show. FIBA games are action packed and done in less than 1 hour and a half. Whoever watched olympic games knows what I mean.

Second, rules are changed to maximize the show. That's obvious, not euro snobbery. It's frankly ridiculous to see how offense takes a priority over defense. That's the logic of a show. The logic of a sport should be to create a balanced game.

[MystikSpiral]

They kind of are actually. One feeds the other you know. You seem to fail to understand that. Basketball is big in U.S. as from elementary school to NBA, everyone plays and enjoys. So the system produces players AND coaches (see number of American coaches overseas I posted). The system does not produce football (soccer to prevent confusion) players OR coaches in U.S.

I don't see your point. You basically repeated what I just said. Nobody in the US gives a **** about football, thus there aren't any talents being developed. And nobody gives a **** about basketball in europe, same result...The coaches aren't the root of this evil...

And as far as staying on topic goes: Whatever. A guy I don't know being wrong about guys I don't care about. Continue...

You don't know Tanjevic? Well, why are you discussing European basketball then?

I'm discussing european basketball? If I only knew that, I'd have come prepared...I was merely pointing out that there is more to the lack of talent production from europe than just "primadonna coaches" or the "communist style of play".

[JustOneFix]

Well, what can I tell you, at least basketball over there is still a sport and not a superstars show like it sadly became here.

Comments like this just piss me off to no end. This is the exact kind of Euro snobbery that Americans react poorly to. It's just ignorant.

For all the talks about american arogancy and bla bla (which i rarely see) it's actually europeans that ridicule the NBA, and losing by 30 in the proces.

Christ, i can only imagine what kind of snobbery and arogancy the US would have faced had the Europeans were beating their asses by 30+ every world championship or the Olimpics.

It's completely surreal.

[Mass Rig]

It is? It looks more like a way of coaches/managers rubbing their own egos costing clubs millions of dollars, burning money they make from the football for something that nobody cares. At least, kids care about basketball and actually do play it here and people actually watch it.

Uh? Money they make from the football? Football doesn't make any money, and is not related to basketball at all.

Basketball is a smaller sport than football in Europe for cultural and historical reasons, not because the differences in the rules. The number of people playing basketball has been steadily rising in the last few years.

[seren]

Comments like this just piss me off to no end. This is the exact kind of Euro snobbery that Americans react poorly to. It's just ignorant.

For all the talks about american arogancy and bla bla (which i rarely see) it's actually europeans that ridicule the NBA, and losing by 30 in the proces.

Christ, i can only imagine what kind of snobbery and arogancy the US would have faced had the Europeans were beating their asses by 30+ every world championship or the Olimpics.

It's completely surreal.

100 percent agreed. U.S. basketball team loses one game every five-six years and it is all about how Americans are arrogant, they can't play as a team, coaches suck, NBA sucks etc.

Yet, despite the fact that NBA rules are completely different than FIBA rules, U.S. basketball until recently has always been mostly mix and match rosters with little practice time whereas European teams usually keep more or less the same team year in and out practicing like crazy, games usually end up with huge blowouts.

[seren]

It is? It looks more like a way of coaches/managers rubbing their own egos costing clubs millions of dollars, burning money they make from the football for something that nobody cares. At least, kids care about basketball and actually do play it here and people actually watch it.

Uh? Money they make from the football? Football doesn't make any money, and is not related to basketball at all.

Basketball is a smaller sport than football in Europe for cultural and historical reasons, not because the differences in the rules. The number of people playing basketball has been steadily rising in the last few years.

Majority of the clubs in Europe have both a football team as well as a basketball team. Most of the clubs have to heavily subsidize their basketball teams since they can't sell any tickets to the games and have zero TV revenue. I've been to many basketball games for essentially free back then when I was a kid. It is mostly football fans literally bribed by club managements to go to basketball games and chant for the team.

[Mass Rig]

Yet, despite the fact that NBA rules are completely different than FIBA rules, U.S. basketball until recently has always been mostly mix and match rosters with little practice time whereas European teams usually keep more or less the same team year in and out practicing like crazy, games usually end up with huge blowouts.

Completely different rules? lol? If this is the basis for discussion, well, I'm not sure there's much to talk about!

Anyway, all the top teams pretty much have the same training schedule, and the same turnover rate. And nobody is questioning the fact that team USA is the best team on the planet.

[CroBullsFan]

Actually, this thing goes both ways. American coaches think that American way is better and European coaches think that European way is better.

This dude's quote is different though. He's claiming that 26 of the 30 coaches in the NBA are simply incompetent. I don't think I've heard any NBA coach make similar comments about European coaches.


What I find interesting is that when asked about International players, NBA players/coaches make every effort to seem respectful in interviews and games, but they don't get the same respect in return...

Actually, they do. Just not from Tanjevic. What can I say. That guy isn't very polite.

[Mass Rig]

Majority of the clubs in Europe have both a football team as well as a basketball team. Most of the clubs have to heavily subsidize their basketball teams since they can't sell any tickets to the games and have zero TV revenue. I've been to many basketball games for essentially free back then when I was a kid. It is mostly football fans literally bribed by club managements to go to basketball games and chant for the team.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. In Italy not a single team is owned by a football club. In Spain I believe only Real Madrid and Barcelona own basketball teams. In Turkey, probably only Fenerbache. And anyway is pretty much impossible for football teams to subsidize anything, since all of them are making losses anyway.

[Sedale Threatt]

It's not euro snobbery, it's the sad reality. I've been living in the US for 6 years, and I regularly watch the NBA. I like it, don't get me wrong. But certain things are simply absurd, and I believe that Americans tolerate them because they are not used to a different system that works in a different way.

Perhaps. I was more talking about this notion that Europeans somehow have the Magic Secret about how basketball should really be played, when in fact our players and style of play are infinitely more enjoyable -- and, as the recent major tournament prove, successful. The bottom line is, we must be doing something right, and I get sooooooooooooo sick of statements like yours dismissing that.

First, there are too many games

Agreed. Sixty games would be perfect. Unfortunately, the business model is set, and there's no going back.

The games are too long

Do not agree. I think 2 1/2 hours is about perfect. Not too short, not too long.

and there are too many teams.

Indifferent, leaning toward agree. Wouldn't have a problem seeing three or four teams contracted.

The NBA is exciting only during playoff time.

Complete BS. If you have a favorite team, as I do, the season is very enjoyable, if long.

The number of commercials inflate the length of a game to almost 3 hours - it's ridiculous.

Again, wrong. Most NBA games are done in 2 1/2 hours. I don't have any problem with this. Three-hour baseball games? A complete bore. But I've never had any problem with the pace of an NBA game.

Second, rules are changed to maximize the show. That's obvious, not euro snobbery. It's frankly ridiculous to see how offense takes a priority over defense. That's the logic of a show. The logic of a sport should be to create a balanced game.

If you're talking about things like star calls and the like, I agree. But if you're talking about adjusting rules to counter strategic developments and create a more entertaining product -- because that's what professional sports are, here and everywhere else -- then I couldn't disagree more.

The NBA had gotten to be almost unwatchable in the late 90s and early 00s with all the clutching and grabbing and excessive physicality. The world's best athletes had been reduced to pro wrestlers. So I applaud the league's efforts to open the game back up and emphasize the athleticism and creativity that make basketball the sport it is.

In terms of balance, I'd say the league is in a great place -- we don't have the video game scores of the 80s, or the wrestling tactics of the 90s, and great players like LeBron and Durant have the stage they deserve to fully maximize their abilities.

[seren]

Yet, despite the fact that NBA rules are completely different than FIBA rules, U.S. basketball until recently has always been mostly mix and match rosters with little practice time whereas European teams usually keep more or less the same team year in and out practicing like crazy, games usually end up with huge blowouts.

Completely different rules? lol? If this is the basis for discussion, well, I'm not sure there's much to talk about!

Anyway, all the top teams pretty much have the same training schedule, and the same turnover rate. And nobody is questioning the fact that team USA is the best team on the planet.

The discussion is about a European coach calling out American coaches. I provided a boatload of reasons why he is completely wrong including number of basketball players that came out of the U.S. system thanks to those American coaches, number of American coaches that are actually actively coaching in the globe, the fact that American coaches rarely are out-coached in major international tournaments etc. etc.

[JustOneFix]

And nobody is questioning the fact that team USA is the best team on the planet.

But you're (or Tanjevic, or whoever) questioning the methods of players production that led to that same team??

It's like saying hey german cars are the best but germans can't make a good car. Or some sort of nonsense like that.

[seren]

Majority of the clubs in Europe have both a football team as well as a basketball team. Most of the clubs have to heavily subsidize their basketball teams since they can't sell any tickets to the games and have zero TV revenue. I've been to many basketball games for essentially free back then when I was a kid. It is mostly football fans literally bribed by club managements to go to basketball games and chant for the team.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. In Italy not a single team is owned by a football club. In Spain I believe only Real Madrid and Barcelona own basketball teams. In Turkey, probably only Fenerbache. And anyway is pretty much impossible for football teams to subsidize anything, since all of them are making losses anyway.

Well if you are spending 10-15 million Euro a year with essentially close to zero income, the team is subsidized for sure be it the football club or club in general if you will.

I don't know about Italy right now, but for instance in Turkey, Fenerbahce, Galatasaray, Besiktas are among the top four clubs with basketball teams.

[Sedale Threatt]

And nobody is questioning the fact that team USA is the best team on the planet.

But you're (or Tanjevic, or whoever) questioning the methods of players production that led to that same team??

It's like saying hey german cars are the best but germans can't make a good car. Or some sort of nonsense like that.

It's because we have so many players, and those with African roots at that, to choose from. Things like coaching and training can't possibly have any impact.

[seren]

Mass Rig wrote:The NBA is exciting only during playoff time.

So let me get this straight. NBA is not exciting for approximately 6 months yet people all over the globe (not only in the U.S.) actually watch these games because? While the same people do not even care to show up to watch the playoffs in their respective countries?

Did you know that in Turkey (whose coach is Tanjevic by the way) which is supposed to be one of the big leagues in Europe, the basketball federation had to pay money to a broadcaster to broadcast the playoffs just a few years ago while people wake up at 3 am and actually pay money to NBA in order to watch the games?

[Mass Rig]

because that's what professional sports are, here and everywhere else

Here is the core of the debate. I don't agree with this. Sports, professional or not, should create rules that favor the balance of the game, not maximize the show. Otherwise, going back to my original statements, they become shows. To be, the NBA is more similar to wrestling now that it was in the 90ies.

Example: adding the defensive 3 seconds rule to see the lebrons dunk more often is stupid. Should be also put a trampoline at the free throw line, then?

Removing the handchecking rule is stupid. Try to call a foul for handchecking in a pick up game, to see the reaction of the other team. Not calling travelling violation to see people dunk more often is stupid. And so on and so forth.

If you like to watch a 2 and a half hours game with over 60 minutes of commercials, then go ahead. To me, it makes more sense to watch the same amount of action packed in 1 h and 20 minutes, with only 10 to 15 minutes of commercials. And too bad if the players and the owners make less money.