Updates on players @ P3

[countrybama24]

Obviously some this is just good marketing from the P3 people, but it's still pretty interesting. Too bad they didn't say anything about Kanter's second jump, but this obviously is just a snapshot.

http://twitpic.com/ah3s0y

This picture was take during @alecburks10 initial P3 assessment. Not bad. He is now jumping 4 inch higher. Bounce!

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php ... 8815&saved

"Enes Kanter making important physical gains at P3, including trunk stability, ability to maintain lordosis and ability to transfer force from the ground up. The movements in this clip are targeting these specific areas of physical performance and more...At P3, we emphasize several aspects of rotation with our NBA big men since it's vital in their movement to the basket. We also like them to be strong and stable in an overhead position."

http://www.telly.com/C5ND8?fromtwitvid=1

NBA Slam Dunk Champion @JeremyEvans40 is back at P3 and jumping higher than ever!

http://www.telly.com/84HWI?fromtwitvid=1

"Great work from Marvin Williams the last two days..A few movements captured from his initial assessment..."

http://www.telly.com/IFTFK?fromtwitvid=1

"Good news Jazz fans, @dfavors14 is hungry for work and has retained much of what he learned and gained at P3 last off-season."

[StocktonShorts]

Based on what I've seen, trunk stability is the least of Kanter's problems.

[red4hf]

Kanter looks a little leaner to me...... That should help him become a little quicker off the floor inside.....

It's good to see Marvin working out in the off-season...... I'm really curious to see ho he's going to play this year......

[BiggMann]

this team is SICK

[erudite23]

Nice. But....I'd rather see him practicing his footwork, postmoves and left hand with a big man coach.

[retiredcoach]

by StocktonShorts on Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:55 pm
Based on what I've seen, trunk stability is the least of Kanter's problems.

(Shorts, my comments aren't directed at your statement in particular, but more to the overall commentary on Kanter.)

Fans complain when Kanter can't finish shots near the rim. Then they complain when he's working on things to improve that. He's building the strength he needs to finish better, which is his next step in his evolution. Nothing pretty, just muscle it up. Two points is two points.

Kanter is a rebounder. He's going to be a major force in NBA rebounding. He can develop that now and that's what he's doing.

All the ranting about Kanter needing to develop more post moves is misguided. He will develop more moves but that takes a big man 3 to 5 years to accomplish. Kanter isn't going to be a scoring machine, he's going to be a rebounding machine and an ultra strong paint defender. Accept it.

His scoring average is going to be in the mid teens to low teens. And so will his rebounding averages. If a guy averages 12 boards a night, he's elite. Those rebounds are worth an extra 12 offensive points and minus 12 on defense.

Favors is the guy everyone should be worried about offensively.

[Luigi]

I see what you're saying about Kanter and finishing. But I don't think he'll ever be a paint defender. Ground-bound players just don't excel there. I think the best we can hope for it that he learns how to contain his man.

I am worried that working on strength isn't the best thing for Kanter right now. He already tries to crab dribble (the real version, not Lebron's version) his way through defenders. Once he makes it to the rim, his defender is still between him and the basket. Unless Kanter has a length advantage he ends up with finishing problems.

Anyway, it just seems like a strange place to focus, that's all.

[retiredcoach]

by Luigi on Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:51 am
I see what you're saying about Kanter and finishing. But I don't think he'll ever be a paint defender. Ground-bound players just don't excel there. I think the best we can hope for it that he learns how to contain his man.

I am worried that working on strength isn't the best thing for Kanter right now. He already tries to crab dribble (the real version, not Lebron's version) his way through defenders. Once he makes it to the rim, his defender is still between him and the basket. Unless Kanter has a length advantage he ends up with finishing problems.

Anyway, it just seems like a strange place to focus, that's all.

I understand Luigi. One point to remember is that Kanter didn't think up his training by himself. He's working on a program laid out by the Jazz coaches with the folks at P3. So he's doing what he's being asked to do.

I agree Kanter won't be a big time shot blocker in the paint, but he'll be a defensive force because big centers won't be able to move him out of the way. That's where the strength comes in. If he keeps the scoring centers from getting to their spots and he keeps the rebounding centers closed out, Kanter wins.

In pre-draft workouts his ability at 19 yrs old to keep big strong players out of post positions is what made the decision for the Jazz. Basically, Kanter is already in the top 3% of strength for paint players. By the time P3 is done with him over the next couple of years, he will be the strongest post player in the league. That makes up for a lot of other missing skills.

Remember what I said about Dantley. He was a great rim finisher despite not having length or great jumping ability. He's in the HOF.

[Bullet]

I'd be extremely happy if he turns out to be something like Bill Laimbeer, minus the antics.

[erudite23]

Despite the perception that he was getting every other shot blocked last year, Kanter still finished in the upper half of all F/Cs in FG% around the hoop. The reason why his overall FG% was modest (still good at ~50%) was that he was terrible outside of the immediate rim area. If you've seen him shoot, though, its obvious that he will at least be a passable threat from outside the paint at some point in his career. Even if he never improves from his performance as a rookie (which is highly, highly unlikely), he is going to be an above average scorer and at least moderately efficient, due to the fact that he gets to the line at a high rate, and he generates a ton of opportunities around the hoop.

The perception around him is flawed. I don't care if he's getting blocked 4 times in 10, if the other 6 are all going in. But seeing him getting dominated so much has people nervous. I'm not. He'll adjust, and I think he'll be a mid-50% type FG shooter in his prime. He also has a chance to score over 20ppg if he develops a post repertoire and a left hand. He has everything else.

[Luigi]

Despite the perception that he was getting every other shot blocked last year, Kanter still finished in the upper half of all F/Cs in FG% around the hoop. The reason why his overall FG% was modest (still good at ~50%) was that he was terrible outside of the immediate rim area. If you've seen him shoot, though, its obvious that he will at least be a passable threat from outside the paint at some point in his career. Even if he never improves from his performance as a rookie (which is highly, highly unlikely), he is going to be an above average scorer and at least moderately efficient, due to the fact that he gets to the line at a high rate, and he generates a ton of opportunities around the hoop.

The perception around him is flawed. I don't care if he's getting blocked 4 times in 10, if the other 6 are all going in. But seeing him getting dominated so much has people nervous. I'm not. He'll adjust, and I think he'll be a mid-50% type FG shooter in his prime. He also has a chance to score over 20ppg if he develops a post repertoire and a left hand. He has everything else.

This is good data.

But there's a good reason not to compare Kanter to the normal field of bigs. Remember how frustrating it was to see Okur and Boozer get bounced by Bynum, Gasol, and Odom? Our bigs were really our strength back then, but there's a big distinction between elite bigs and good bigs with similar numbers: size.


I still believe that winning a title depends on having elite bigs (which means big bigs that can play) or absolutely overwhelming star power on the perimeter (Jordan or James and Wade). If the hope is that Kanter and Favors end up being good bigs that make an all star game once in a while, but then get beat by elite bigs in the playoffs, then it makes sense to compare him to the regular field of pfs and cs. But if the hope is that Kanter and Favors can make some real noise in the playoffs, we've gotta take a look at how they handle the elite, full size bigs. My guess is that this kind of data would confirm the perception that Kanter has a problem getting his shot blocked. How he should adjust is another question.

[reapaman]

50% FG for a player that got as little defensive attention and wide open shots as Kanter is abysmal period. I can see if he was in a bad sitautions ala greg monroe in his rookie season, but he was in a perfect situation to shoot at least 55% + FG. As retired coach stated, it takes years upon years to develop your scoring abilities, even though based on history it usualy is more like 5 - 7 years. So he's gonna be really bad for the rest of his rookie contract at the least. Please don't make accuses for him or make light of the situation.

Being a strong paint defender is kinda useless except again bynum and mabey a couple others. I also wanna see if he can sustain his rebounding numbers, because I wasn't convinced. I also can care less about him "working on his athletism" or whatever because we here guys do that every summer and it never makes much of a difference. Slimming down, staying flexible and of course working on your game is about the only major difference your gonna make.

With all that said, he give great energy and has a good work ethic. That alone combined with his size will keep him in the league. What he will become is up in the air though.

[retiredcoach]

There's no convincing some fans regarding Kanter's ability and how he will develop. I guess they'll figure it out ten years from now.

I'm am truly glad that none of the fans I've read on the blogs and chat boards are anywhere near the GM position.

No wonder KOC never looks at any of this!

[Luigi]

Make the case for Kanter for me. I'm pretty low on him lately. What do you see in him as a basketball player?

[QuantumMacgyver]

50% FG for a player that got as little defensive attention and wide open shots as Kanter is abysmal period. I can see if he was in a bad sitautions ala greg monroe in his rookie season, but he was in a perfect situation to shoot at least 55% + FG. As retired coach stated, it takes years upon years to develop your scoring abilities, even though based on history it usualy is more like 5 - 7 years. So he's gonna be really bad for the rest of his rookie contract at the least. Please don't make accuses for him or make light of the situation.

Being a strong paint defender is kinda useless except again bynum and mabey a couple others. I also wanna see if he can sustain his rebounding numbers, because I wasn't convinced. I also can care less about him "working on his athletism" or whatever because we here guys do that every summer and it never makes much of a difference. Slimming down, staying flexible and of course working on your game is about the only major difference your gonna make.

With all that said, he give great energy and has a good work ethic. That alone combined with his size will keep him in the league. What he will become is up in the air though.

Kanter shot 50% and the league average is 45%. Kanter shot a better percentage than MOST the league his rookie year. How can shooting a better percentage than the league average be "abysmal". You should take the time to look up just how many players shot "at least 55%". You'll see names like Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum. Seriously, you should take the time to look it up and I'm not saying that to imply you don't have any idea what you are talking about, I am saying that you should take the time to look up the stat so you can appreciate what a feat shooting 50% really is. You may find a new appreciation for Kanter.

And based on history big men make the jump in their third year or after playing 2500 minutes. I can't think of a big man that was in the league for 5 years before finally turning the corner offensively. Unless by 5-7 years you are including pre-NBA years like College and High School.

[carrottop12]

Reapaman, if you really want to look at Katner's statistics, look up 19 year old true big men who shot as much as Kanter did, had as high a FG% as Kanter did, and played at least 10 minutes a game in their rookie years.

Here is the all time list:

Dwight Howard
Derrick Favors
Kosta Koufos
Eddy Curry
Tyson Chandler

3 of those guys are studs, 1 of them was very good until eating himself out of the league, and the other one is Kosta Koufos who is a scrub.

Basically, of the 5 guys who did what Kanter did at a similar age, 80% of them had starting caliber, upper-tier careers.

[Jazzfan12]

There's one guy on that list who has become a greater than 12 PPG scorer in the NBA and Kanter doesn't really have the athleticism to project to be a defensive anchor.

[retiredcoach]

by Jazzfan12 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:33 pm
There's one guy on that list who has become a greater than 12 PPG scorer in the NBA and Kanter doesn't really have the athleticism to project to be a defensive anchor.

You are confusing shot blocker with defensive presence anchored by huge strength. Kanter isn't going to be a big time shot blocker, but he'll be 10 plus rebounds a game and 10 or more pts. And his strength and big body will keep other bigs from getting position on him. That's called defense.

Don't worry about shot blocking. Favors and Hayward have that covered.

[ack]

Shotblocking does not mean defense.

[AK47MVP]

and the other one is Kosta Koufos who is a scrub.
.

Kosta had better stats then Kanter in U-18 Eurochampionship, he is taller, better leaper and outplayed Kanter head to head in few games I saw then against each other ( one in inernational game and two in NBA )... Why then Kanter should turn better then Koufos who is a scrub? Honestly, I do not see Kanter having any major impact in the future. Lack of lift and explosiveness is not easy to overcome unless you are great in pick and roll or pick and pop and can shoot from outside ( see Scola, Okur, Malone in his last few years of his career). Kanter should be focusing on his pick and roll and screen setting skills, not wasting time in PS3 as he will never be good leaper no matter what work you put into it.