ESPN Source: Bulls, Thibodeau talk deal

[Tommy Udo 6]

I remember that Deng talked to JR & said he made a mistake by not accepting extension. JR was pleased.

However, after the season, Deng got the original offer plus extras.

Ben Gordon, who did not apologize, got an even lower offer than the year prior.

[LosBullsFan]

@WojYahooNBA

Brian Scalabrine has turned down coaching job with Bulls and will call games for Comcast Sports New England this season, he tells Y! Sports.

[kyrv]

no, JR does not negotiate direct with players - only the coach

JR made an exception for MJ because MJ could not stand Krause and didnt trust him.

JR would have given approval on Deng but didnt carry out the actual negotiations

Thanks, so this would not be out of the norm.

I do remember JR being mentioned with Deng but I think to hopefully move things along, as you said I don't he did actual negotiating.

[Michael Jackson]

See this is the place where JR can be accused of being cheap. If he lowballs here. I'm pretty sure this will be worked out shortly though.

[micromonkey]

Should be done quickly now that they can't fall back on Scalabrine if Thibs wanted too much.

[SpinninHouse]

All this Jerry Rein$dorf stuff is hilarious. The problem isn't not spending ENOUGH money. It's spending the money wisely. We're in the situation we're in because we've given guys too much money (BOOZER).

Anyways, lets ink up Thibs to 4-years/$21M and move on.

[League Circles]

I'd guess number of years will actually be harder to agree on that salary. I'm sure the Bulls will only want a 2 year extension (committing to 3 more years total), and Thibbs will want a 4 year extension. Thibbs will probably be asking for 6 mil a year for 4 years. The Bulls will probably be trying to get him on 5 mil a year for 2 years. I'm gonna guess that the end result is for him to sign a deal that will have him coach this year on his current deal and extend for 3 years after at 5.3 mil per year.

[SpinninHouse]

I'd guess number of years will actually be harder to agree on that salary. I'm sure the Bulls will only want a 2 year extension (committing to 3 more years total), and Thibbs will want a 4 year extension. Thibbs will probably be asking for 6 mil a year for 4 years. The Bulls will probably be trying to get him on 5 mil a year for 2 years. I'm gonna guess that the end result is for him to sign a deal that will have him coach this year on his current deal and extend for 3 years after at 5.3 mil per year.

If Thibs accepts 3-years/$15.9M, that deal is signed immediately.

[Michael Jackson]

All this Jerry Rein$dorf stuff is hilarious. The problem isn't not spending ENOUGH money. It's spending the money wisely. We're in the situation we're in because we've given guys too much money (BOOZER).

Anyways, lets ink up Thibs to 4-years/$21M and move on.

Thank you.

[nomad]

Why don't we just offer the white mamba the head coaching gig and let thibs walk after next year? I can't imagine that we wouldn't still be contenders

[Rerisen]

The problem isn't not spending ENOUGH money. It's spending the money wisely.

Well when you don't do the latter, then the former also becomes a problem.

Besides that, in the new era of the superteam, where top teams have 2 and 3 All-Stars / Superstars on the same team, I think its going to become near impossible to field teams to match them at or below the luxury tax line.

It's just real hard to cram equivalent talent to match or value per dollar as these teams with 10m less or so payroll. It begins to stretch credibility to expect nebulous 'chemistry' or 'depth' to make up the difference.

The Mavericks defeated a superteam, but not because they spent wisely. But because they spent 'enough', to overcome where they didn't spend wisely.

The Bulls had a unique window to do what I said is near impossible the last 2 years, but only because they were getting Rose/Gibson/Asik for just over 7 million dollars. Now Derrick alone costs 15 and a half, and in a year, him and Taj alone might cost 18 million. Not a situation you are ever likely to recreate without dipping back into the top of the lottery again.

[SpinninHouse]

The problem isn't not spending ENOUGH money. It's spending the money wisely.

Well when you don't do the latter, then the former also becomes a problem.

Besides that, in the new era of the superteam, where top teams have 2 and 3 All-Stars / Superstars on the same team, I think its going to become near impossible to field teams to match them at or below the luxury tax line.

It's just real hard to cram equivalent talent to match or value per dollar as these teams with 10m less or so payroll. It begins to stretch credibility to expect nebulous 'chemistry' or 'depth' to make up the difference.

The Mavericks defeated a superteam, but not because they spent wisely. But because they spent 'enough', to overcome where they didn't spend wisely.

The Bulls had a unique window to do what I said is near impossible the last 2 years, but only because they were getting Rose/Gibson/Asik for just over 7 million dollars. Now Derrick alone costs 15 and a half, and in a year, him and Taj alone might cost 18 million. Not a situation you are ever likely to recreate without dipping back into the top of the lottery again.

Here is the problem. If we went over the Tax like people wanted and acquired OJ Mayo or Courtney Lee, and kept Asik and Korver -- we still wouldn't win the title this year. So what would be the point of hamstringing us even more? Bringing in OJ Mayo and re-signing Asik would have prevented us from aquiring the legitimate star we eventually need to win a title.

None of the potential acquisitions this summer that would have put us over the Tax would have netted us a ring. We made the right move.

[transplant]

Thibodeau's been a NBA head coach for two seasons. In terms of regular season wins and losses, Thibodeau has done historically well...

...but we're talking only two seasons and for the "regular season don't mean ****" crowd, I figured the relative lack of playoff success should be mentioned (by the way, if your stated position is that playoff success is pretty much all that matters, I don't see how you can be outraged that Thibodeau hasn't been given his asking price).

When it comes to the NBA, I've never been much of a head coach worshiper...OK, I've often felt that the true value of a NBA head coach is often seriously overstated.

I like Thibodeau and hope he signs an extension with the Bulls. I don't feel that he belongs in the Pops-Rivers tier at this point, but somewhere in that $4M-$6M range feels right.

[Rerisen]

Here is the problem. If we went over the Tax like people wanted and acquired OJ Mayo or Courtney Lee, and kept Asik and Korver -- we still wouldn't win the title this year. So what would be the point of hamstringing us even more? Bringing in OJ Mayo and re-signing Asik would have prevented us from aquiring the legitimate star we eventually need to win a title.

None of the potential acquisitions this summer that would have put us over the Tax would have netted us a ring. We made the right move.

We need more total talent, not just different talent, and its going to cost.

We can start paying now, such as keeping Asik and Korver, to be better in the meantime, or we can pay at some theoretical point down the line when the team is presumably close enough.

But paying or not paying, neither way is a surefire better way to 'acquire the legitimate star we need'. Most teams acquiring stars in recent years have actually done it via trade, irrespective of salary cap, but meaning they needed a lot of total talent on hand to do such a deal, and not have a semi-gutted team afterward.

Most likely you will never beat those teams on paper without equivalent star power, which doesn't mean Kevin Love or anyone foreseeable in 2014. Therefore any theoretical moves the Bulls can likely make are subject to being viewed as 'just hamstringing us more' in the present.

My comment didn't specifically apply to the Bulls anyway, just a general point. I just don't see beating the new era Miami's and Lakers of the world below luxury tax. Not unless you have a Durant or Rose on a rookie deal.

[Rerisen]

When it comes to the NBA, I've never been much of a head coach worshiper...OK, I've often felt that the true value of a NBA head coach is often seriously overstated.

I would tend to lean this way in general, or rather differently viewed, that bad ones can hurt far more than good ones help, but I think the Bulls are in a precarious situation here because of who Rose is as a player and the bond he has formed with Thibs as star and coach.

If the Bulls are to win an NBA title, or just have great post-season success in general, it will most likely have to be via the same style that makes them great in the regular season. High effort, high chemistry, commitment to defense. And I think what makes that happen is Thibs and Rose being on the same wavelength.

Not sure you can just throw in another Vinny Del Negro into the mix, and think that is going magically recreate itself. Especially now that Rose has viewed that exact situation from both sides over the last couple years.

[mhsiao]

The Bulls had a unique window to do what I said is near impossible the last 2 years, but only because they were getting Rose/Gibson/Asik for just over 7 million dollars. Now Derrick alone costs 15 and a half, and in a year, him and Taj alone might cost 18 million. Not a situation you are ever likely to recreate without dipping back into the top of the lottery again.

I have to disagree that Bulls maybe need to dipping back into lottery to have the same talent of Taj and Asik. There are always sleeper in the draft and specialist tend to draft very late in the draft as well. Lets not forgot Taj was late first round pick (26) and Asik was second pick. I think As long as Gar/Pax keep up good scouting like they did with Taj and Asik, Bulls will continue to find sleeper. (Unless Bulls trade away draft picks to save money.)

Spurs' great drafts and coaching has keep them as top teams in the NBA and they haven't been in the lottery since Tim Duncan. Their big free agent signing are usually about center (to allow Duncan play PF.)

[Rerisen]

My point wasn't about recapturing late pick magic, we can do that again (though not easily), but about the value we had per dollar of those three players during the last two years (Rose/Gibson/Asik). This is a huge part of what allowed us to draw even with Miami, despite them spending more because we had 55M+ of other talent and to spend on beside them.

You aren't going to find another Derrick Rose with a 26th pick or in that area.

If we did 2010 plan over again in 2014 we'd have about 18 million less to spend sans Derrick and Taj, and no Asik. Therefore, Free Agency and cap space is no longer is a very attractive way to build a competing team as it was then.