Who is the biggest global icon?

markjay · Post #241 » by **markjay** » Sun Sep 9, 2012 11:55 pm

bigbreakfast wrote:i think its hilarious the ppl who have lived in different regions/countries of the world all pretty much pick messi, but the posters who undoubtedly have only lived in the US pick someone else.......

How do you know where people have lived?

I've lived in two countries in Europe, one in Asia, one in North America, and one in Africa and I say Kobe.

Mac1 · Post #242 » by **Mac1** » Sun Sep 9, 2012 11:56 pm

Also messi has scored 10 goals this year for argentina...even with an argentine side that has seen better

Rip Mammoth Ton · Post #243 » by **Rip Mammoth Ton** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:03 am

Cool_Dude wrote:
Cleveland Cavs wrote:
Rhyno wrote:Out of the people on that list--it's Kobe Bean Bryant, and it isn't even close. His name has been relevant for over ten years, far more than Messi and Ronaldo. Bryant is a worldwide figure. James is slowly getting there, and after a few more championships he will be--but in this case it's Bryant, hands down.

To me its Messi, and its not even close.. the best player and arguably the greatest of all time in the biggest sport in the world.

Pele, my friend, is the Jordan of soccer. Not to mention the guy actually won world cups. Messi is the lebron of soccer, before lebron won his first title. Messi hasn't proved squat on the World Cup stage. Not to mention that it's the genius playmaking of Xavi and Iniesta that largely attributes to Messi's success.

Pele is something of a myth to the younger generation nowadays. The globalization of television within domestic football, and the rise in prominence of the CL over the last thirty years, has heightened Maradonna's legacy over Pele's now. He's certainly never talked about with the kind of awe in the general press as in previous generations

Don't get me started on the Iniesta and Xavi point. No history of salary cap or even an attempt at parity means one thing as far as Football goes, that being that the best players play on the best teams. Its been that way for nearly a hundred years.

Post #244 » by **Doctor MJ** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:04 am

GrangerDanger wrote:I had never heard of that Leonardo Messi dude before. Thought it was a woman before I googled him. And isn't Pacquio a comedian? Lol why is he on a list of athletes? Anyways this is Woods, Bolt and Kobe by far. Most normal people haven't heard of these other "athletes"

Your request to be the spokesman for "normal people" has been denied, and your membership has been revoked.

Post #245 » by **Doctor MJ** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:08 am

Mac1 wrote:not true. Soccer is different to basketball. Peles brazil teams which won could have won without him. Just by the eye test messi is miles more talented. The requirements are different.IN basketball you have 5 starters and a bench on a small court..in soccer you have 11 a side on a huge pitch. The team needs to be great.

messi isn't the lebron..lebron wasn't in my view more talented then jordan..but messi **** all over pele who wasn't even the best brazilian player of his generation..that was garrincha..whom intact won him one of his world cups while he was injured and didn't play..

Messis talent and sensational goals have overshadowed peles world cup success..hes simply a better player.

Actually it's not true because soccer is like basketball: A team sport.

You're totally right though, in fact Brazil DID when the World Cup without him in the middle of his career because of his injury.

DavidSterned · Post #246 » by **DavidSterned** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:13 am

I think Tiger Woods is the most balanced choice, he's at least known in most parts of the world. Messi isn't even on celebrity level here in North America.

Post #247 » by **Doctor MJ** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:14 am

bigbreakfast wrote:i think its hilarious the ppl who have lived in different regions/countries of the world all pretty much pick messi, but the posters who undoubtedly have only lived in the US pick someone else.......

Well, I'm not exactly eager to side with a group that's siding with basketball players according to the polls, but I voted for Pacquiao, and I think the confidence in Messi is strange.

According to a recent list of athletes making the most money in 2012, two boxers led the list (Mayweather and Pacquiao), while Messi was 11th. Now there's more to than that, I don't think anyone considers Mayweather an icon because he's really a pretty irredeemable person that no one is inspired by, but Pacquiao is right near the top of the list and is a clear inspiration to many people worldwide.

It's also worth noting that even above Pele, Muhammad Ali was the ultimate sports icon, and while his personality was clearly part of it, it's also relating to the fact that fighting is a more ubiquitous sport than even soccer, and it's a sport that is entirely individualistic.

Post #248 » by **Doctor MJ** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:16 am

DavidSterned wrote:I think Tiger Woods is the most balanced choice, he's at least known in most parts of the world. Messi isn't even on celebrity level here in North America.

I think Tiger is clearly the greatest sports icon in the US since Jordan, but golf is about the least accessible major sport in the world. Poor kids in 3rd world countries are not dreaming of being Tiger, but they are dreaming of being Messi, or Pacquiao, or Kobe for that matter.

Mamba Venom · Post #249 » by **Mamba Venom** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:24 am

I never looked up Messi before this thread. I barely heard his name. I thought it went Ronaldo then Donavon then Beckem. But I don't see how a 25 year old Messi can be that big of an icon.

Isn't it flavor of the year until a guy has been around for a decade or so. Global icon status means that even the old guy casual fans have heard the name for a long long time. Like Tiger, A-Rod, Jeter, Payton Manning, Kobe, etc. Non fans know who they are.

Indy2thaWindy · Post #250 » by **Indy2thaWindy** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:32 am

Mamba Venom wrote:I never looked up Messi before this thread. I barely heard his name. I thought it went Ronaldo then Donavon then Beckem. But I don't see how a 25 year old Messi can be that big of an icon.

Isn't it flavor of the year until a guy has been around for a decade or so. Global icon status means that even the old guy casual fans have heard the name for a long long time. Like Tiger, A-Rod, Jeter, Payton Manning, Kobe, etc. Non fans know who they are.

When you are as clueless as you are, then you probably shouldn't post.

Notas A3 · Post #251 » by **Notas A3** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:33 am

It is very simple, in this thread 90% of the non USA posters say Messi and Ronaldo even if they like football/soccer or not. From the USA, 60% (I'm being generous with that %) are saying Kobe,20% Woods, the rest of opinions are mixed with Messi, Ronaldo, Pacquiao or Beckham.
Now, my question is simple, who represents the idea of global better: people from Europe, Asia, South America, Australia and Arabic countries or only one country, USA? I just want an answer to my question from the ones who are saying Kobe, It is a very simple one.

cantervil · Post #252 » by **cantervil** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:41 am

Mamba Venom wrote:I never looked up Messi before this thread. I barely heard his name. I thought it went Ronaldo then Donavon then Beckem. But I don't see how a 25 year old Messi can be that big of an icon.

Isn't it flavor of the year until a guy has been around for a decade or so. Global icon status means that even the old guy casual fans have heard the name for a long long time. Like Tiger, A-Rod, Jeter, Payton Manning, Kobe, etc. Non fans know who they are.

Check the list of awards, not bad for a 25 year old guy. He´s only missing titles with the Argentinian national team which are way more difficult bc they are played every 4 years: World Cup and Copa America ( already runner up).

Few people have that kind of list of achievements even when they get retired.

Honours

Barcelona

La Liga (5): 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11
Copa del Rey (2): 2008–09, 2011–12
Supercopa de España (5): 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011
UEFA Champions League (3): 2005–06, 2008–09, 2010–11
UEFA Super Cup (2): 2009, 2011
FIFA Club World Cup (2): 2009, 2011

Argentina

Olympic Gold Medal (1): 2008
FIFA U-20 World Cup (1): 2005
Runner Up:
Copa America (1): 2007
Third Place:
U20 South American Youth Championship (1): 2005

Individual

FIFA Ballon d'Or (2): 2010, 2011
Ballon d'Or (1): 2009
FIFA World Player of the Year (1): 2009
World Soccer Player of the Year (2): 2009, 2011
World Soccer Young Player of the Year (3): 2006, 2007, 2008
ESM Team of the Year (5): 2005–06, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11, 2011-12
European Golden Shoe (2): 2010, 2012
Pichichi Trophy (2): 2010, 2012
Copa del Rey Top Goalscorer (1): 2011
La Liga Player of the Year (3): 2009, 2010, 2011
LFP Best Player (3): 2009, 2010, 2011
LFP Best Forward (3): 2009, 2010, 2011
La Liga Foreign Player of the Year (3): 2007, 2009, 2010
La Liga Ibero-American Player of the Year (5): 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
UEFA Champions League Top Goalscorer (4): 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
UEFA Best Player in Europe Award (1): 2011
UEFA Club Footballer of the Year (1): 2009
UEFA Champions League Forward of the Year (1): 2009
UEFA Champions League Final Man of the Match (1): 2011
UEFA Team of the Year (4): 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
Onze d'Or (4): 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
Bravo Award (1): 2007
Tuttosport Golden Boy (1): 2005
FIFA Club World Cup Golden Ball (2): 2009, 2011
FIFA U-20 World Cup Player of the Tournament (1): 2005
FIFA U-20 World Cup top goalscorer (1): 2005
Copa América Young Player of the Tournament (1): 2007
FIFPro World Young Player of the Year (3): 2006, 2007, 2008
FIFA/FIFPro World XI (5): 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
Sportsperson of the Year of Argentina (1): 2011
Footballer of the Year of Argentina (6): 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
Male Best Athlete in Latin America (1): 2011
Marca Leyenda (1): 2009
L'Équipe Champion of Champions (1): 2011
IFFHS World's Top Goal Scorer (1): 2011[248]
Best International Athlete ESPY Award (1): 2012

Records

Most goals scored in a season in all competitions: 73 goals
Most goals scored in a European Cup season: 14 goals (held jointly with José Altafini
Most La Liga hat-tricks in a season: 8 hat-tricks
Highest scorer in a European Cup game: 5 goals (held jointly with ten other players)
Most European Cup top scorer awards: 4 awards (shared with Gerd Müller)
Most consecutive La Liga matches scored in: 10 matches (shared with Ronaldo and Mariano Martín
Most goals scored in the Supercopa de España: 10 goals
Most goals scored in FIFA Club World Cup: 4 goals (held jointly with Denilson)
Barcelona top goalscorer in official competitions: 260 goals
Barcelona Record Goalscorer in UEFA Champions League: 51 goals
Barcelona Record Goalscorer in European Competitions: 52 goals
Barcelona Record Goalscorer in international Competitions: 56 goals

Cool_Dude · Post #253 » by **Cool_Dude** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:53 am

OK, even if Pele's legacy doesn't hold up well today, Messi still needs to win at least one World Cup. Zinedine Zidane all-time is definitely better than Messi. Forget the stats for a minute, and consider the unwritten impact they have/had on the field. Zidane would masterfully control the entire game from the midfield with his footwork and passing. Messi is more of a guy who runs with the ball towards the goal and finds crafty ways to score. But Messi's game is built around his speed, and his small stature allows him to make quick changes of direction at high speeds. Zidane was never fast nor athletic, but his sheer skill and genius in creating something out of nothing and his ability to see and react to plays before they happen puts him above Messi IMO until Messi wins World Cups.

Nothing beats that legendary quarterfinal game against the heavily-favored Brazilians in world cup 06 where Zidane would continually own multiple Brazilian defenders at once, pretty much every time he got the ball. Ronaldinho was at that time what Messi is now, and Zidane totally burned him. And Zidane scored the first two french goals in the 98 world cup final, also against a great Brazil team, winning France the world cup at home. Messi needs to approach that level of international success, and he simply hasn't.

andremcosta · Post #254 » by **andremcosta** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:07 am

Mamba Venom wrote:I never looked up Messi before this thread. I barely heard his name. I thought it went Ronaldo then Donavon then Beckem. But I don't see how a 25 year old Messi can be that big of an icon.

Isn't it flavor of the year until a guy has been around for a decade or so. Global icon status means that even the old guy casual fans have heard the name for a long long time. Like Tiger, A-Rod, Jeter, Payton Manning, Kobe, etc. Non fans know who they are.

A-Rod and Jeter are not global names. Casual fans that don't live in the USA would never reconize their names or their faces. Those guys wouldn't make a single dollar selling merchandise outside USA.

Messi is well know all over the world, except in the countries that hate football, like USA. So it's obvious, since you know zero about the world except the country you live in, you think guys that no one knows are more important than global icons, because USA market is your sample.

Messi makes like $40mi/yearly selling his image, and you should take into account no one in USA knows who he is.

According to Forbes, Lebron and Kobe make around 30-35mi, and they have USA market and european and chinese market, since people like basketball in those places.

andremcosta · Post #255 » by **andremcosta** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:09 am

Mamba Venom wrote:I never looked up Messi before this thread. I barely heard his name. I thought it went Ronaldo then Donavon then Beckem. But I don't see how a 25 year old Messi can be that big of an icon.

Isn't it flavor of the year until a guy has been around for a decade or so. Global icon status means that even the old guy casual fans have heard the name for a long long time. Like Tiger, A-Rod, Jeter, Payton Manning, Kobe, etc. Non fans know who they are.

And lol Donovan. Hes not even a top100.

He can walk on the streets during FIFA world cup and no fans will realize who he is.

Ditchweed · Post #256 » by **Ditchweed** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:13 am

I said Ronaldo, merely because he has been around a bit longer than Messi, but if someone insists it is Messi, I wouldn't argue the point. To me it is definitely one of the two.

However, as previous poster eltalavk stated, 90% of posters outside the US vote one way, and many US posters generally vote another way. Unfortunately this happens all the time with these kind of posts. What would you say causes this? Do the non US posters have access to different information or do US posters live in a fishbowl? Is it the US news media at the cause of this?

Josephpaul · Post #257 » by **Josephpaul** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:18 am

American sports take over television and time differences

andremcosta · Post #258 » by **andremcosta** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:28 am

Ditchweed wrote:I said Ronaldo, merely because he has been around a bit longer than Messi, but if someone insists it is Messi, I wouldn't argue the point. To me it is definitely one of the two.

However, as previous poster eltalavk stated, 90% of posters outside the US vote one way, and many US posters generally vote another way. Unfortunately this happens all the time with these kind of posts. What would you say causes this? Do the non US posters have access to different information or do US posters live in a fishbowl? Is it the US news media at the cause of this?

Football is by far the most popular sport in the world.

Baseball, basketball and american football togheter are not even close.

So, it's usual for american fans to think that guys in those sports are more popular and people all over the world will always name the most famous football player.

trickshot · Post #259 » by **trickshot** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:35 am

markjay wrote:
bigbreakfast wrote:i think its hilarious the ppl who have lived in different regions/countries of the world all pretty much pick messi, but the posters who undoubtedly have only lived in the US pick someone else.......

How do you know where people have lived?

I've lived in two countries in Europe, one in Asia, one in North America, and one in Africa and I say Kobe.

Not calling you out or anything, but as an African, I'd really like to know where in Africa (or Europe for that matter) you've lived that kobe is actually a bigger name than Messi/Ronaldo.

Ditchweed · Post #260 » by **Ditchweed** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:54 am

andremcosta wrote:
Ditchweed wrote:I said Ronaldo, merely because he has been around a bit longer than Messi, but if someone insists it is Messi, I wouldn't argue the point. To me it is definitely one of the two.

However, as previous poster eltalavk stated, 90% of posters outside the US vote one way, and many US posters generally vote another way. Unfortunately this happens all the time with these kind of posts. What would you say causes this? Do the non US posters have access to different information or do US posters live in a fishbowl? Is it the US news media at the cause of this?

Football is by far the most popular sport in the world.

Baseball, basketball and american football togheter are not even close.

So, it's usual for american fans to think that guys in those sports are more popular and people all over the world will always name the most famous football player.

Since 4% of the world population lives in the US and 96% outside the US ... that, plus your answer, I would thus take it as being the fishbowl effect.

I live in Canada, and we see relatively the same sports as the US does, yet I doubt that Canadians would answer the same as US fans. I would bet most Canadians will go with Messi.