Biyombo Vs Kanter

[Truthrising]

In your opinion, who will turn out to be the better player in the long run - Bismack Biyombo or Enes Kanter? I know there were heated debates between the 2 prior to the draft.

[Dr Positivity]

I think it's close, but for the C position I would favor Biyombo's shotblocking and physical talent

IMO

Biyombo
Kanter
gap
Thompson
Valanciunas

[erudite23]

Biyombo might be an impressive defensive talent--and at this point its too early to tell for sure, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt--eventually, but its hard to see how he will ever be anything more than a train wreck on offense. His absolute ceiling is Ben Wallace. Probably won't be as good as Ben was offensively....and that's saying something. Also unlikely he'll ever reach the heights that Ben reached defensively.


Kanter, though, will be a solid defender at the least (was already very good against the pick and roll last year and already is unmoveable in the post) and his play on that end of the floor shouldn't detract from his real value: as a rebounder and scorer in the paint. I think his upside is significantly higher and his risk factor is lower. Which means he will likely be a better player. Although I must admit its possible that will not be the case. I like Biyombo, but after a year in the league, I think Kanter is obviously a superior prospect.

[Dr Positivity]

I don't know if I'd call him a surefire trainwreck offensively. The two plays starting at 1:30 in this video shocked the hell out of me

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He6F3qJ8EFM[/youtube]

He's got a lot of work to do, but his feel for the game doesn't seem too bad offensively, it's just his polished skill. I see him having Tyson Chandler potential offensively at least

[Truthrising]

Biyombo might be an impressive defensive talent--and at this point its too early to tell for sure, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt--eventually, but its hard to see how he will ever be anything more than a train wreck on offense. His absolute ceiling is Ben Wallace. Probably won't be as good as Ben was offensively....and that's saying something. Also unlikely he'll ever reach the heights that Ben reached defensively.


Kanter, though, will be a solid defender at the least (was already very good against the pick and roll last year and already is unmoveable in the post) and his play on that end of the floor shouldn't detract from his real value: as a rebounder and scorer in the paint. I think his upside is significantly higher and his risk factor is lower. Which means he will likely be a better player. Although I must admit its possible that will not be the case. I like Biyombo, but after a year in the league, I think Kanter is obviously a superior prospect.

Yeah this is my line of thinking as well, he's already rebounding the ball better than Biyombo and looks like he'll be a solid defender, looks like Kanter's been training pretty hard in the gym so it looks like he'll be a lot stronger coming into this season. I still think Biyombo is attrocious on offense and I highly doubt he'll ever be a good offensive player.

I've always said this before but I think Biyombo will most likely be a Disagne Diop type player.

[HornetJail]

It's worth noting Bismack turned 20 a few weeks ago. There have been bigger offensive trainwrecks that have become solid. If you've actually watched him, you'd see that he shows flashes of being competent on that end. I think he can be dominant on D, and I think his most likely comparison on offense is current Serge Ibaka.

[fatlever]

I've always said this before but I think Biyombo will most likely be a Disagne Diop type player.

you do realize that diop and biyombo are on the same team and that biyombo played circles around diop last year as an 18 year old rookie with no training camp and virtually no real coaching, ever, right?

[KembaWalker]

the fact that Biyombo was as good as he was last year was shocking to just about everyone. This guy was supposed to be a 3 year+ project. Ben Wallace didn't become Ben Wallace until he was 26.

plus Ben Wallaces CAREER numbers are 7ppg/36 with 47.4% TS, Bismack as a 19 year old rookie put up 8.1/36 on 48% TS. 7% higher than Ben Wallaces career FT% in his first year (and showed significant improvement in this area in summer league on form and %)

Whats the line of reasoning around "Probably won't be as good as Ben was offensively"? As far as I can tell he's already pretty much better than Ben Wallace offensively and is on track to being MUCH better

[HornetJail]

I'm pretty sure a lot of us expected him to play some time in the D-League from what we had heard about him, but he turned out much better on the offensive end than we expected. Biyombo is ALREADY nearly as good offensively as Wallace ever was, and is leaps and bounds ahead of the Diops, Asiks, and Evans's of the NBA in terms of offense. The numbers aren't great, but there is nothing to support the argument that Biyombo will regress after he turns 20 years old and turn into Diop.

[KembaWalker]

yes I didn't even bother comparing Biz to Diop, thats just disrespectful

for Biz with his expectations of rawness to come in with 0 training camp due to contract issues in a lockout offseason and little practice time and do what he did, he should be getting heaps of praise. not comparisons to Desgana Diop. smh

[fatlever]

the question should be if biz can ever get to ben wallace's level on defense, not offense. i'd probably lean towards no, he wont ever be as good as wallace defensively but he will surely be much better than wallace offensively, simply due to the fact that he is longer, taller and more athletic, which should give him the advantage around the basket and on the break. he won't ever be as good as wallace in terms of rebounding. biz just doesnt seem to have that amazing knack for grabbing boards like ben did, especially offensive boards. for that reason i have always compared him more to theo ratliff than ben wallace. theo was a little better than ben on offense, not quite as good on defense and not as good of a rebounder.

no comment on kanter. i just havent seen him enough.

[ahonui06]

Kanter. Biyombo is garbage offensively.

[Truthrising]

I think it's close, but for the C position I would favor Biyombo's shotblocking and physical talent

IMO

Biyombo
Kanter
gap
Thompson
Valanciunas

You might want to rearrange your expectations at the centre position once the season starts. I still think that Kanter will have a much better career than Biyombo, i'd even put Valenciunas over Biyombo and Thompson.

[princeofpalace]

Biyombo is terrible. His ceiling is as a shot blocker off the bench. He's terrible offensively, and a mediocre rebounder. Additionally, his defense is nothing to write home about. I'd be shocked if he ended up as anything more than an 8th to 10th man. He can't even get significant minutes in pre season

[Truthrising]

Biyombo is terrible. His ceiling is as a shot blocker off the bench. He's terrible offensively, and a mediocre rebounder. Additionally, his defense is nothing to write home about. I'd be shocked if he ended up as anything more than an 8th to 10th man. He can't even get significant minutes in pre season

Wholeheartedly agree, i've been saying that Biyombo very much looks like he'll flatline as a diop type player and it looks like my assessment is correct, i've also been of the minority (1% - on my board) that Kanter will flourish as a player and have recieved a lot for saying such a ridiculous thing but it looks like i'm right about that as well. Just sayin..

[NCHeels2008]

Biyombo is terrible. His ceiling is as a shot blocker off the bench. He's terrible offensively, and a mediocre rebounder. Additionally, his defense is nothing to write home about. I'd be shocked if he ended up as anything more than an 8th to 10th man. He can't even get significant minutes in pre season

Wholeheartedly agree, i've been saying that Biyombo very much looks like he'll flatline as a diop type player and it looks like my assessment is correct, i've also been of the minority (1% - on my board) that Kanter will flourish as a player and have recieved a lot for saying such a ridiculous thing but it looks like i'm right about that as well. Just sayin..

what's kanter shown to make you so sure?

[KembaWalker]

hes getting 17 minutes a game in preseason and throwing in 5pts 5 rebs .7 stls and 2.7 blocks. lmao what a bust!

princeofpalace i can understand reaching this hard to hate because we traded up to steal Biyombo from his team who desperately wanted him and he's still a bit upset about it. so he's personally vested in making sure people hype up Drummond for example off a meaningless preseason game and discount Biyombos multiple stellar games that happened in the real regular season. but anyone semi-knowledgeable can see thru that I'd hope.

ive already seen Bismack outplay Dwight Howard with my own eyes in a real NBA game..couldnt give less of a *** about preseason where our coach is more focused on getting our bench guys in shape than making sure Bismack goes in and plays 35 minutes so people on RealGM dont think hes a scrub.

[princeofpalace]

^
Dumars wanted to trade up with Toronto to draft Tristan THompson. The idea that Joe D was "desperate" for Biyombo, quite frankly is ludicrous. The idea that Im annoyed that Joe didn't get his hands on Biyombo is laughible as I have always mainted him to be a BUST and Joe managed to land the better prospect in Brandon Knight.

Here's a thought Kemba, try attacking the post and not the poster. Your inability to do just that indicates that you simply do not have an argument at all.

Biyombo is bad. Aside from shot blocking, which he is great at, there is not a single thing that he is even good at. His rebounding is very mediocre for a big man, he has no discernable offense nor is a defensive stalwart. He certainly is not the Ben Wallace that some have asserted him to be. His ceiling is as a broke mans Theo Ratliff.

This is the last post, in which I will address you since your posts are overly defensive and often illogical.

[KembaWalker]

Ben Wallace wasn't Ben Wallace until he was 25-26 years old

Ben Wallace a 22 year old was putting up per 36 numbers of 6.9ppg 10.6 reb 2blk with a PER of 6 and a 34.7 TS%

Bismack Biyombo as a 19 year old rookie (youngest player in the league last year) put up per 36 numbers of 8.1ppg 9.1 rpg 2.8bpg. with 10.6 PER 48 TS%.

Most people thought Bismack wasn't even going to come over to USA last year, as he paid part of his buyout with his own money to come develop in Charlotte. He wasn't allowed to practice with the team until preseason had already started. he needed practice more than anyone in the league and instead of getting any he was thrown into the fire with a messed up lockout schedule and had some ridiculously good games.

he's still younger than most of the players that were in the lottery of this draft.

your position is your opinion, obviously, but it has no basis in any kind of logic. Biyombo performed better than almost anyone could have hoped for last season. theres no basis to assert validation of a negative opinion of him. i hope for Drummonds sake you aren't so impatient with him...though I'm sure you in your eyes he's proven far more than Bismack ever could already thats called homerism, and you suffer dreadfully from it if you think Brandon Knight is a better prospect than Bismack Biyombo. Bismack with all those circumstances going against him still had a comparable impact to Knight last season, far higher ceiling, and plays a more valuable position